Fluck

Wow, yeah that worked cause he hit her on the very last 16th frame with the chain when there was no invincibility. I guess I'll make a note.

Frame Data says the super is invincible 1-10F after superflash and the startup is 5+11, so I thought no chain could get her. If you're sure of it, I'll change my post. EDIT: Well, of course, frame data's been wrong before, so this might be another error

Other things I remembered that may be suitable for the guide: Keep an eye on the opponent's meter during the match. Several characters have Distortion Drives that will allow them to punish your chains full screen when they normally can't, doing about 2.5-3.5k damage and giving knockdown, so don't chain too liberally or they will surprise you when they have 50 meter. Of course, it is also possible to bait them out. From what I can remember: Ragna - Carnage Scissors Noel - Thor Taokaka - Grab super (no one ever uses this though). If you input 4D or 6D at the same time Tao inputs the super you will hit her out of it, otherwise you lose. Doesn't really need super to punish you. Litchi - All-Green. This only works if you're standing at a certain range. At full-screen All-Green will not work. Tager - None. He has Spark Bolt though, so look at the spark gauge instead. Lambda - Chains will lose to Legacy Edge but she doesn't need super. Hazama - Mizuchi works if you're doing a ground chain. Tsubaki - None Hakumen - Yukikaze Bang - None Arakune - F of G Carl - None Rachel - Tempest Dahlia Jin - Ice Wave super Valk - Don't know about him. Plat - None Makoto - Big Bang Smash Mu - Laser super works, I think?

Gdlk, very helpful, I learnt alot from this, especially regarding notable chain movement options. I'd just like to point out that the D~D followup kinda works like this: Look at the chain as a straight line and imagine another line perpendicular to the chain. When you do the followup, Hazama will fly in the direction of the top of this imaginary perpendicular line. The height of this imaginary line is fixed so the shorter your chain when you do the followup, the greater the angle of ascent will be. Also imo have BIG BOLD LETTERS in the air chain section to not do air chains unless you have Ouroborous stocks, if you get it wrong you won't be able to pull yourself away and you'll get blown up, something I'm still painfully experiencing. I also think it would be helpful to have a section on pulling yourself in with chains? Not sure if you would consider that zoning.

What Zeron said is mostly correct, just don't do 4D 5A 5C 4D cause of same move proration imo. I don't think 6C is a dash cancel, feels like a link to me? Either way don't try to mash out 6666666 after you do 6C, it seriously doesn't work. I know, I tried

Hazama pretty much only has the weak meterless combo (gatling normals into 3C then do 214DA or 236D) and 214D~C combo midscreen. I think it's best to learn that combo because the 214D~C combo is not really optional compared to the certain long, big damage combos of other characters like Ragna's 2C fatal into Blood Kain and you will need to use that combo as Hazama to play him properly. When you say the second air hit, do you mean you can't get Jakou to connect?

Cool stuff from Dusty, in other news bad humour in Hazama General

Yes, I won't argue with this. I only wanted to say that it isn't totally safe to burst against Hazama and it might be in your interest to bait a burst sometimes (if only to get the mindgame working against the opponent and make them more afraid to burst your next combo). My main reason in responding to Eclipse's post was to make sure he wasn't mistaken and thought that the opponent could burst Houtenjin itself every time, Hazama would be like B tier or something if that were the case. Also, MetalMaelstrom, 2k damage mid-screen is not S-tier and neither is being able to cancel anti-airs into supers.

It's true that 6C is one of the best places to burst but if you burst too late during 6C, Hazama will be out of range, and if you burst too early you can get killed as well. So you need to learn the timing (this is of course not like super hard or anything) but since you can't burst 6C on reaction, Hazama can still bait a burst by blocking, especially since he knows people want to burst that particular combo and the spinning momentum stops when you burst. 5C 2C are both jump cancellable so in theory you can react to the burst (22f) if you're looking out for it. After that the combo pieces involving chains are more or less burst-safe. Of course I'm not saying it's impossible to burst Hazama out of his combo or anything, I merely said it's possible to bait a burst during the combo and that the combo is quite burst-safe, which I do think it is if you compare it to most other combos, even if only because of chains. You can at least subject the opponent to a guess just by altering your hit-confirm. Just as you pointed out yourself, if Hazama does 5B 3C Houtenjin then it's easy to burst after 3C and burst Houtenjin, but Hazama isn't only limited to that. You can do 5B 5C super or 5B 5C 2C super. Then the opponent won't know which normal will be cancelled into Houtenjin.

LK, what are the differences between staff and staffless Litchi? I know a few basic details such as the lack of a DP when staffless and somewhat lower range on her normals, but what are the general changes in her gameplay and her strengths/weaknesses between the two modes?

Just a minor correction Eclipse, I've asked others and they've said that you can't burst Houtenjin itself unless you read it and burst beforehand, so if you have to guess when to burst. If you burst too early Hazama can keep his meter since he doesn't even do Houtenjin, if Hazama Houtenjins you early and you burst mid-combo I think it is baitable by very good players due to how burst-safe the combo is.

I'm just gonna try to answer this to the best of my ability cause I like discussing about this game. If I'm wrong anywhere, more experienced and better Hazama players can and should correct me. Hazama's pressure is really good because 5B is +2 on block. I think Dacid already mentioned this but you can do like 5B then dash 2A. The gap in there is like 5-6 frames, just enough for them to mash out a 2A if they're lucky. There's no way they could possibly react to it so they need to read such a pressure reset and do the attack. However, if you do 5B late gatling into 3C, you can create a gap and it also looks like you're going for a stagger since 5B isn't gatlinged immediately (an immediate gatling is airtight). If they mash a 5A then, what happens? You get a nice CH 3C into 5k and like 70-80 meter gain. The next time you hit the guy he is dead cause the combo is going to do 7-8k. The risk is huge, so it's not a good idea to mash at all. But if the opponents don't mash, you're constantly getting to reset pressure and get into command grab's range. Maybe next time, instead of doing a 5B stagger, you late cancel it into command grab. The resultant combo might not do alot of damage but it will give you a lot of heat. If you try to jump out of command grab, Hazama can do 2B instead. He can do 2A -> 2B -> 5B or 2A -> 5B -> 2B and if you tried to jump out before 2B you will get hit. Again, it's not going to do that much damage but it will give you heat. That's just the gist of it, but you can also do 2A -> command grab or 2A staggered into another dash 2A cause 2A is also plus on block (+1). All this without ever going into stance mix-up. Once you add stance into it, that's another factor he has to consider. Stance overhead is also + on block or hit so you can again reset your pressure. Of course, you can be hit out of stance but it's another thing he must consider in addition to command grab shenanigans and pressure resets. In addition to all this, Hazama also has 6B. He can 5B -> 6B. This leaves you +3 on block, resets pressure by reducing distance between you and the opponent, and takes away a primer. While 6B has a long start-up and isn't exactly spammable, it is again another thing the opponent has to consider. Again, the counter to 6B is to mash out, but if you do 3C instead, he gets killed. If the opponent has a DP, anytime you decide to bait a DP and get it right, he gets killed. Once Hazama gets heat, he's set. Any hit can and should be hit confirmed into Houtenjin. The resultant combo will do alot of damage and give you back all the heat you spent and more. Two mixups later, he's dead. EDIT: If you hit the stance low on him he is also dead.

It'd make it easier to refer to stuff in general. The thread will be less cluttered and whoever makes the thread can update the first post with all relevant information, right now most of the thread starters aren't active. Also it'll help me out when I need advice on how to be less free to Tager

I'm cool with either (and Zidane will make the decision anyway), I just don't think we need people to read through 12 pages of advice on how to beat Tager.

Sup guys, we can ignore Dacidbro Are we gonna post stuff in the match-up threads or what? Would be cool to make new CS2 threads instead as well.

Also do optimal combos :3

Yo, Willy doing combos with same move proration chains. Even Youtube knows not to do that

While reacting is the basis of blocking high/low mixups, this doesn't mean that there aren't other things you can do. Study each character and learn which moves gatling into which - this can be found in the frame data. If you're unfamiliar with the term, gatling or revolver action refers to canceling normals into other normals and is the basis of a blockstring. So for example, let's take Jin, your own character. Jin's only ground overhead/high attack is 6A. The moves that gatling into 6A are 5A, 2A and 5B. Remember that generally, you block low and react to overheads cause overheads are usually much slower and easier to react to than lows. Thus, when blocking against Jin, the only time I need to watch out for his overhead is after 5A, 2A or 5B, as these are the only moves that gatling into his overhead. If he's doing other moves, then I can think about other mixups in his blockstring, like a potential 6B to reset pressure or a tick throw. Familiarizing yourself with other characters and knowing what they can is thus very helpful. Besides gatlings, there are other ways of incorporating mixup in a blockstring. For example, you can also special cancel moves. A common example of this that you might have encountered is Ragna's Gauntlet Hades, which hits overhead. He can special cancel many of his moves into Gauntlet Hades, so he almost always has access to it in his blockstring, so to speak. As Jin, you also have 4 Dragon Punches (moves with invulnerability frames) which you can throw out to beats attacks. This can save you from having to deal with the high/low mixup, but DPs are extremely punishable if the opponent chooses to bait it out and block instead, so keep that in mind. Most players use such moves sparingly.

Remember you can block in the air in this game so DP is not unbeatable :3

It's possible to fly in a blocked chain, but you need to alter your movement pattern. I'm assuming you do j.6D~D or 5D~D and then j.B or j.2C. Ragna probably learns your pattern quickly and stuffs whatever attack with approach with his 6A. Since 6A is head invuln for 5-13F your attack will always lose unless the Ragna does it wrong. However, it is possible to defeat this option by changing your movement pattern. For example, you can do j.A in the air preemptively. This causes you to lose momentum and you land earlier. If Ragna does not react in time and throws out 6A, it'll whiff and you can probably score a CH 3C for ridiculous amounts of damage. There's alot of other things you can do to keep your movement unpredictable - you can do j.2D~D if you have a second stock, or instead of doing j.6D~D or 5D~D you can do 6D~D and then j.2D or j.6D, or even do D~B just to screw with him. It's a really fun part of playing Hazama. Hazama is terrible in mid-range and I assume this is the problem you have with 5B. Don't attempt to beat it unless Ragna is spacing it very badly and close to you, in which case you can beat it with 5A. Even though 3C has ridiculous range 5B is very good in its own right and I'm not at all sure 3C has longer range than 5B coupled with run momentum. I don't own the game on console so I can't check though, don't take my word for it! Generally, if Ragna got close enough to begin pressure on you with 5B from neutral he managed to beat your zoning. So either get better at zoning or rush him down yourself!

It's possible, like Nini says the green exclamation mark + momentum stop is a huge tell, and tells are a big part of reacting to a move. If Bang yelled OVERHEADS!! when he does 5C 6B everyone could block it. Lord Knight, I understand that getting a throw whiff is very strong, but I'd appreciate a little more explanation on the strategy. I'm not looking for character-specific info but rather the principle behind getting a throw whiff. Do you bait a throw and backdash to get it? I'm having trouble imagining the scenario. Thanks for the advice.

C/P from previous thread. Dear Lord Knight, Where's the princess? (I'm curious what your avatar is all about) I've seen people talk about TRM set-ups, but I've never seen a set-up explained properly. How does a TRM set-up work and what are some examples of such set-ups? I'd also like to ask if it only works on OS Barrier Tech users, as I can't imagine how these set-ups will work on people who only tech throws on reaction. I'm aware that Manta answered it here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11915-LK-s-GAMEPLAY-RELATED-QUESTIONS-ONLY-CS2-thread&p=1054360&viewfull=1#post1054360 So I'd like to ask why people choose to yomi/OS throws instead of purely reacting so they don't fall for such setups.

Dear Lord Knight, Where's the princess? (I'm curious what your avatar is all about) I've seen people talk about TRM set-ups, but I've never seen a set-up explained properly. How does a TRM set-up work and what are some examples of such set-ups? I'd also like to ask if it only works on OS Barrier Tech users, as I can't imagine how these set-ups will work on people who only tech throws on reaction.

Platinum discussion in the Burst Punish topic Both Gold and Green Bursts have 22f startup, so I guess it's quite possible to react...? I don't think I've ever seen a reaction RC to a burst though.

If you want to lame this match out then j.Ds should not be a problem, abuse chains and fly to the other side of the screen whenever Tager comes close. It's pretty much the safest option and Tager's only option is Spark Bolt, so that's all you need to watch out for.