Fluck

Well, ok then. Airthrow seems to be the best air-to-air move in alot of situations now though, what's your take on this?

Eh, I thought of that but what he says is slightly different. I felt that he was saying you should stuff Litchi's staff attempts instead of blocking it cause it gives her free approach. The action you take is the same but imo I think he should highlight the danger of a CH staff leading into a 5k(?) combo.

Dusty, you're PNW so this shouldn't be new to you but sG says that you have to be careful against Litchi when staff is set cause she can CH you with the staff launch and you'll die to that. You can't just play wildly. Also of note is that Litchi's air normals are better than yours.

Yes, your opponent is not in CH state for the entire recovery of the move, except for certain special cases. Ice car is punishable but you won't get a CH.

Since this guy comes from SF he doesn't need that much training on how to fight. The differences between an anime fighter and SF he can pick up on his own with any character via playing. Just keep in mind that footsies is not really how this game is played due to the abundance of options. Use the character you want to use, it works out better. I'd only tell a player to play Ragna/Jin first if he was completely new to FGs and even then I probably wouldn't if I knew they had the dedication to not quit the game. Just be wary that Carl has a very steep learning curve and high execution levels.

1) I like to do my j.B early because the number of active frames + chain momentum allows me to land a hit with much earlier timing. Probably a scrub tactic. 2) Ok, thanks.

Something I've noticed as a Hazama player, not sure if Noel players can confirm: If Hazama makes you block a chain (let's say j.6D) and chains in, if you do 4D I can just mash BBBB and even though j.B whiffs, I have enough time to land and do 5B and it will hit you out of 4D.

Hosoku! Touse, ichi! Yoweehe!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCtUk_kglVg General Overview The mirror match can be very hard to play for players who are not accustomed to the matchup. The reason for this is that this is the only match-up where the opponent has a tool as good as your chains - his own! The neutral game in this match-up is thus like no other. Hazama VS Hazama is the best match for practicing your zoning (seriously). Neutral The neutral game is really a test of who's the better zoner. Use your chains and keep an eye on your opponent. Make sure that your chain is going in the opponent's direction. If he chains wrongly, you get a hit. If he chains in your direction, there'll be a clash and you go back to neutral, ensuring you never lose out. Because of this, it is very helpful to use your oroborous stocks to move erratically as it makes it much harder for the other Hazama to use his chains well. Read Dusty's guide for more information on how to improve your zoning and movement! You will want to chain in on Hazama to lock down his annoying movement (lol). His anti-airs are no longer as good as in CS1, but 2C and 214D~B are both still decent anti-airs, so you need to vary your approach as usual. Note that flash kick has a very good hitbox. If you want to beat it, you will need to alter your momentum earlier compared to other anti-airs to make it whiff. Alternatively, you can block it and do j.4D. Defense Jayoku is an even worse option than usual thanks to Hazama's command grab. If you get it wrong and Jayoku while Hazama tries a command grab, you are, to put it simply, extremely fucked. Counter Assault falls to a similar fate. Keep in mind also that CA's range is bad so be aware of the spacing and do not barrier block your opponent before using CA. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do about this. Hazama's pressure and mix-up is very strong and you will need to use barrier and IB wisely to save yourself. IBing 5B in particular is very important. Many Hazamas neglect to utilize 2B as part of their mixup, making jump outs an attractive options against such players. Following the same train of thought, watch your opponent's patterns and try to see which option he isn't using. You can then use that lapse to escape his offence. Hazama's defence is not good but his offence is pretty damn good, so there is not much you can do about it. Offence Read the above, change your point of view. Misc. tips/tricks/things to watch out for Not sure what to put here, it's your own character.

Slower chains (no relaunches anywhere), repeat proration on 6C

Keep in mind that when the match starts, you need to approach Tager. Tagers that know the match-up will either hold downback or walk forward cautiously and block any chains you throw. The reason for this is simple: Once Tager gets hit, he basically loses. By turtling, Tagers are able to build up meter for Spark Bolt, which makes the neutral game much more dangerous for Hazama. So, go in on Tager first. Only when you get the first hit do you enter lame mode and run away for the timeout.

Hakumen's aim in CS2 is to get you to the corner and rape you there. Sounds like every other char in CS2, but it is especially important for Hakumen since the difference between his midscreen and corner damage is very, very big. Try to chain away if you're near/in the corner. Tsubaki is a very good option with Hakumen, it's a decently fast overhead and more importantly it has very good corner carry and untechable time, he can convert Tsubaki into a big 5-6k corner loop combo at a location you would not expect. Worth watching out for.

Also from Carl's frame data - 6C's guard says HL but it is an overhead. (Again, I don't know if it's AUB. Sorry )

I won't be posting match-up numbers cause they just always cause argument. The purpose of this thread is to teach you what to do in the match-up, not how good the match-up is anyway. General Overview Carl's defence is extremely weak. Conversely, his offence is amazing, thanks to unblockable resets and decent mix-up. It sounds pretty obvious to try and get the first knockdown but it really is the most important part of the Carl match-up. If you get hit, that could be the round right there. Similarly, if you press momentum against Carl, there is not much he can do to stop your own offense. Neutral As usual, you will use chains in neutral. Carl will usually airdash backwards and hide behind Nirvana, then use her to approach. Keep in mind that chains do not stuff Nirvana's attacks. It is thus a bad idea to fight Carl with Nirvana in front of him since she can punish chains with her attacks. Use chains and followups such as j.8D~D if Carl is hiding behind Nirvana so that you get to the other side of screen, where he is in front of the doll and fight from there. Pulling yourself in from neutral isn't a bad idea since Carl doesn't have many ways to get out of pressure. His 6A anti-air is very good, however, and will punish any predictable air to ground approaches. You have to vary your trajectory and angle of approach to get past it by either throwing his timing off or making it whiff. Examples of this include whiffing normals to lose momentum and using different chain followups. Defence Carl himself only has overhead 6C, which is very slow at 29F startup. Most Carls will not go for it. Similarly, Nirvana's only overhead is surely one of the slowest in the game at 57F startup. Carls will do the overhead with Nirvana but the high/low mixup is not a major concern. Carl's primary source of mix-up comes from doing crossups. He can use Vivace to cross you up while Nirvana does an attack. A good example of this is during the Rhapsody of Memories super. Carl will keep doing Vivace to continuously cross you up while you block Nirvana's attacks and it is not easy to block this. Another common tactic is to do jump cancel IAD crossup j.2C (keep in mind this is not an overhead), which you can beat with your usual 2C anti-air. Carl's blockstrings are not very long, so usually he will go a quick cross-up to get a hit instead. Carl's unblockable set-up deserves a very important mention. Due to its nature, it is pretty much impossible to Counter Assault out of it. Hazama does not have a true DP and there is thus little he can do about the reset until he gets 50 meter. Once he does have 50 meter, he can do Jayoku. If Carl does the DP-safe version, he will block Jayoku, but Nirvana will trade with Hazama and hit him out of recovery. This effectively reduces the recovery on Jayoku and you can go on the offense afterwards. Carl can still punish Jayoku by not activating Nirvana and blocking but that is actually worse for Carl since the DP-safe version is low risk and will not give up pressure if Hazama simply blocks. Offense Press your advantage and make it count. Carl's defensive options are very bad. His Counter Assault has bad reach and he lacks a DP without meter. With meter, he can do Rhapsody of Memories as a reversal. It can be very hard to punish Rhapsody of Memories; if you see it coming, jump over Nirvana and Carl should be in an easily punishable CH state. Carl has only 9.5K HP, so you'll often be confirming Jayoku combos into Mizuchi for the kill. Misc. tips/tricks/things to watch out for Keep an eye on the Nirvana gauge. Carl needs to manage it properly. If he overuses Nirvana and causes her to break, his options will be much more limited since he either uses Nirvana and causes her to break or fights by himself, always a bad idea. You need to alter the relaunch combo against Carl. Do 6A after 623D j.6D~D.

Sure, I agree with this. Just a minor point: surely you cannot react and choose an option based on whether or not 5B is IBed? For example you do 5B (IBed) dash 2A. I don't think you can stop yourself from doing dash 2A if you saw the 5B IBed. P.S. Being civilized is free to me

CS is 49 USD in my country

Nah, I never trolled Dacidbro. Dacid, Dusty said awhile back that you can kill Hazama's pressure significantly by IBing 5B. I think that is very true, so what is your reply to that?

Well, I said that because there was nothing left to discuss in my opinion. Nobody wanted to discuss the Bang match-up. Of course I think it's fine that you're here now since we're back to the argument of Hazama's pressure. I won't argue about the backing off part cause it can only be substantiated via 1) Actual play or 2) Videos and I can't back up my point with either (nor am I convinced that I am correct).

Dacid, basically what happened was you came into the forums and then it led into an argument about Bang's match-up with Hazama, then you and Dusty agreed to disagree in a very trollish manner, then the trolling kinda blew up with Zeron getting annoyed at you coming into the forum cause of your trollish ways. Not much trolling took place before the matchup argument so I won't comment on who trolled who first (afaik it's neither). Anyway, then alot of trolling took place between the two of you because you weren't happy with how you were being treated and Zeron was annoyed I guess. I won't comment on that either except to say that you probably won't get an answer for your grievances. Obviously no one is interested in discussing the Hazama-Bang matchup anymore so you don't really have much of a purpose here anymore. I won't comment on the match-up itself since I'm not nearly experienced enough for it. EDIT: I'd also like to say I don't think Hazama has the option of backing off. It depends on the spacing but usually that will immediately put him in the mid-range, the area where he's the weakest. If your opponent is cautious you might be able to escape back into zoning but usually I do not think this is a good option.

I think that j.214B is a gamble but that doesn't mean that you can't take gambles. Something like that is more up to the playstyle of each individual player. j.214B is a bad move for Hazama because it is NOT foot-invulnerable and can lose out to some lows and because of the risk compared to his other options but it does have very good reward and the risk is not actually exceptional, definitely not comparable to the risk of DPs. You shouldn't rely on it but it's not a bad idea at all to use it occasionally when combined with a read, it's another mindgame for your opponent as well.

Thanks for info C0R. Yes, it does. If you do Jayoku into Mizuchi for the unburstable kill you will notice this.

Oh yeah, definitely. It's at least -10 on block lol

If you read a low attack like other character's 2B you can make it whiff and punish with TK j.214B for a relaunch combo where 3C would get stuffed. But yeah, you almost won't ever use this.

Dacid is using Hazama forums to switch his main away from Bang Dont do it guys

Some things of note: -Makoto's 5C doesn't gatling into 2B -Valk's 6A is only head and body guardpoint. Also would be cool if you mentioned he can't block in drive :3 -Platinum's 6B guard should probably read H not HB, isn't HA cause I don't think it's air blockable. -I don't know all of them but super guardpoints aren't mentioned at all. I know at least Fenrir and Origins are super guardpoint and can't be thrown.

In my experience, you won't get a Zaneiga starter often, but CH 3C is not that uncommon and the combo is exactly the same except you do a 3C first. Jayoku combos are also the same as Zaneiga combos except you do normals into Jayoku first.