Litherain-XIII

Here's the thing about Noel in CP in general. Noel is getting to the point where unless you have a good neutral game and good fundamental skills ( blocking, instant blocking, reading opponents and depicting their decision making in certain scenarios to help you counter their strategy and thought process) then you're gonna find yourself losing with her more often against players who know how to deal with her drives with ease. Because of this reason it is implied you learn how to hone those skills and simply "deal with it" or pick another character. I'm not gonna sugar coat it because if you feel like you need 4D to win in general then chances are you probably playing the wrong character or you probably deserve to lose until you learn how to play without it as much and depend more on solid blocking/ chicken blocking/ fuzzy blocking to get you to the next round with noel. This is more apparent even in CP2 where it is less emphasis on 4D as a dependable reversal (think of noels 4D in the same sense as Valk's 6A somewhat they share similar weaknesses but Valk players rarely even uses 6A WHEN he's under pressure or blocking despite its guard point property) Practicing those basic fundamentals will help a lot in your struggles with noel in defensive situations.

Thats not surprising considering they probably already exhausted all kinds of ideas to substitute the inclusion of Nine and Jubei as the "last" set of playable characters if that's their ways to ensure the last BB even sells decently after CP Extend. Cant blame them for trying to hold out on their trump card. _-_

I just dont understand why they nerfed relius pressure game but give it to nu. why nerf azrael momentum wise but give the best of that to nu? why nerf rachels options but give nu more options? why give tsubaki a null and void stigma on her drive's functionality instead of giving her some real help but make nu's gravity seed ridiculously good for no reason with no real recovery while making rachels wind recovery shitty as hell and kokonoe's gravitons? why make new options and tools for makoto. bullet, bang, celica, mu-12 and others but give nu the fuckin cream of the crop with a damage consistency to boot at the end of the sugar coated rainbow?? they clearly didnt give a fuck about balancing imo saying "oh we are focusing on how (fun) the characters play and balancing some stuff" when they on the flip side nerfed the very elements that made the characters fun in the first place overall. I cant see how anyone in ASW can honestly laugh this shit off and shrug their shoulders. I was expecting a patch a "rebalance patch" not a "oh shit is that nu from CT....and the top tier are ragna...litchi...Nu...wait NU!?! we going full circle again hold up wat the fu- THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING!"

C'mon now! Preach brotha preach!

So why call makoto "honest" if she has a DP? Im curious to know by that logic lol

This was posted a while ago but im not sure how relevant this is. this is about the matchups in 1.1 but involved celica before the release of CP2 so i suppose it can be view as some jp players initial opinions

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No really its just that we basically cant get into that route much most of the time because bloom trigger was nerfed to the point we cant get that set up anymore in the corner OR we could but its not optimal enough since we still trying to figure out her bnbs with all the nerfs. And the j.D nerf also helped in nerfing noels basic combo routes forcing us to do things that do less damage and less combo potential overall.

its partially due to the distance they are hit by 2d in the air when eventually meeting the ground as 2d will accidentally force tech them in some cases as opposed to floating them afterwards. i find it to be the opponent basically being hit under the 2D itself not infront of 2D that causes it to happen. in these cases you can pretty much 2D > d.5A > d.6B to fix that problem.

Finally. watagashi has saved a few of us from going bitch mode for another day. the combos in his vid now gives us a more clearer view of her combos and damage potential in 2.0 i agree its not that bad. she lost some damage in certain areas but actually got more damage in certain combos that would be under 400 damge in 1.1 which is actually cool. takes a load off my mind now.

this new noel so far is hurting my spirit....need....auto life spell.....and regen...

See what im saying? _-_

i hope that sticks in your case because if you think she ass now im praying to the gods and stars constellations that its the opposite at the end of the tunnel. or else my name is John Mcbrown. holla at me bruh..

true but you'd figured he would explain why shes strong outside of say omg shes nerfed and blazey blah. if saying she can do high ass dmg off CH is her only strong point atm in 2.0 then fuck that. i want character efficiency to be able to do shit on the field not wat she can produce in terms of situational CHs damage off hard reads because so far thats all im hearing. noel always could pull off high damage hell she was doing that since day 1 before azrael even knew what damage was when he stepped into the picture. all i know is i better be +2476 on 2c or somethin... somethin goddamn it. _-_

idk to be honest Luna. they also mentioned that d.6B was also slowed down thus making her mix up even more weaker and we're damn near close to being reversaless in a meterless fashion with that 4D nerf which sucks considering her tools are already finicky in their own ways and that theyre werent buff to help out with neutral or pressure im just lost out of wat to do with noel atm. its like taking a stroll back to CS1 ville and reliving nightmares of character inefficiency when i go over this stuff its all over the place. not to mention i see ppl like Jin didnt even scratch a nerf from the devs and he's kickin it freely with buffs like others. Im looking at ragna atm...may have to back seat noel as a sub if this goes on to be worse for her.

CP2 Noel Change Updates: - Can now reverse gatling 2A > 5A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A06_ZsLnFy0&feature=player_detailpage#t=1619 - 5D now Fatal Counters. - XI.Optic Barrel (236A/B) can now be dash-canceled on hit and on whiff. - Chamber Shot (236C) is now easier to use. Causes low ground slide midscreen. still wallsticks in the corner and can be comboed meterless with 5A, 2A , 5B , 5C , 6C depending on the height of it being used in corner combo. - Bloom Trigger (236D) now wallbounces instead of wallstick and is very low to the ground. looks near impossible to follow up unless a 5A can pick up. if done slightly away from corner you cannot follow up. opponent falls too fast to the ground. has to be point blank most likely. (pure speculation on 5A follow up) - Seen noel can special cancel drive on whiff now. 5D > chamber shot on whiff confirmed. not sure if its the drive starters only but this is wats seen. - 5D seems to have no guardpoint or invuln. she tried it a few times got CH out of it in the beginning startup frames and later frames as well. - J.D on counter hit seems to cause auto float ground bounce on standing opponents. - J.D lost its forward thrust momentum from 1.1 so its now stationary when being used. this explains why j.C > j.D combos no longer work making j.D whiff all the time if not most the time. speculation of 6C > j.D may work with super jump involved. waiting for conformation. - Seen noel do a 6B > 5D seemingly with no delay of 5D and it didnt combo as a red beat anymore. seen once waiting on confirmation. - Saw a lot of d.5B>236A>66>5A>5C>stuffs. Most likely her new BnB routes to replace j.D stuff in her combos - Saw this combo being used: 3C>22C>66>5B>5C>j.2C>j.4D>stuffs. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Tweets / Needs Translation Info: - CP2ノエル(仮2 jD…慣性ほぼ削除(？)，ヒット時ダウンに，硬直増加 CS…スライドダウン，端のみ追撃可能，火力弱体 BT…壁バン，追撃状況限，火力強化 AT…鈍化(？) ODBT…火力強化 ODAT…動きが見やすく 各種D始動…cOD追加，透かしても必殺技キャンセル追加 Translated from above: Temp. Noel CP2 Changes 2 j.D kills almost all momentum(?), causes knockdown [not sure on this one's context beyond knockdown], has more recovery Chamber Shot causes slide, can combo afterwards in corner, and combo potential has been lowered [very unclear about this one. It has something to do with weaker combos, but I'm not confident on it being a damage thing, proration, or something else] Bloom Trigger wallbounces, is difficult to combo off of [not sure if diffcult or impossible], and combo potential has been improved [same wording as Chamber Shot, very unclear on this one] Assault Through is slower(?) OD Bloom Trigger combo potential up [etc, etc] And the OD Assault Through and OD Cancel stuff I frankly have no clue on. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ - CP2ノエル(仮 2D…バレキャン可 4D…fc削除，無敵変更，コンボ時間減少 5D…fc対応 5A…攻撃レベルup 各オプ…dc追加(dcで2F有利) cr5A…高速化 cr5B…高速化 cr6B…鈍化 cr6C…fc対応 j2C…受け身不能時間増加 j4D…めくり削除，追尾化 Translated from above: Temp. Noel CP2 Changes 2D cancels into Thor 4D no longer fatals, invincibility has been changed, is harder to combo with. 5D fatals 5A has a higher attack level Optic Barrel is dash cancel-able. The dash cancel is +2 d.5Ais faster d.5B is faster d.6B is slower d.6C fatals j.2C's untech time increased j.4D doesn't flip anymore and tracks the opponent http://puu.sh/c5DW9/d9689d1361.jpg http://puu.sh/c5DYh/b59135d064.jpg\ http://puu.sh/c5DZq/c33ee0256f.jpg http://puu.sh/c5E0K/65c655966e.jpg https://twitter.com/oboronoel/status/520106561469808640 place holder for now.

CP2 noel change Update: seen noel can special cancel drive on whiff now. 5D > chamber shot on whiff confirmed. not sure if its the drive starters only but this is wats seen. EDIT: Also 5D seems to have no guardpoint or invuln. she tried it a few times got CH out of it in the beginning startup frames and later frames as well. J.D on counter hit seems to cause auto float ground bounce on standing opponents Also ive seen noel do a 6B > 5D seemingly with no delay of 5D and it didnt combo as a red beat anymore. ive only saw it once but if this is a legit change....well...fuck.

you can follow up the d.5B>236A>66>5A>5C with a 2A > 6C i saw it before. Everything else is right. changes i saw : j.4D was buffed. it now auto tracks opponents and is faster now. invincibility is unknown atm. this is used to replace the j.D route in our combos usually by 236A > dash cancel > 5a > 5C > j.2C > j.4D > stuff. j.D is nerfed by having its forward momentum thrust taken away from 1.1 so now it resemble a stationary j.D which explains why j.C > j.D doesnt work most of the time. SPECUALTION that you may have to super jump into a j.C and cancel into a j.D off the first hit of j.C or the 2nd hit of j.C to make j.D connect now if you want it to work.

technically there are a few throw whiff juggle combos but its very impractical to be doing and is not worth it regardless. Just stick to her BnBs and keep it movin

Nearly all of noels combos are drive dependant mostly. you can do some combos without it but honeslty youll be only doing under 2 - 3.2k at best and limiting your damage potential but if so, then it just boils down to chamber shot and revolver blast combos. if you gonna use revolver blast then youll mostly cancel into a 6A to launch them for it. if not then any ground hit can be comboed into chamber shot. its pretty straightforward and self explanatory assuming you know her basic gatlings as far as her natural combo flow is minus the drive inputs. a quick example would be something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaE66mndCgY I apologize for the terrible quality im poverty _-_

no we dont have the frame data on the 2nd hit unfortunately. i persoanlly believe its the whole move in general of 16 blockstun. they both feel the same on block really. i have a weird feeling its slightly shorter on 6C(2) for the opponent to mash something when tested but for the most part the blockstun is the same for both hits.

you can just do 4D > spring raid to beat sledge and hammer. tager basically cant do anything against this once he comits to sledge in relative close range so he gets CH out of the whole thing either by 4D or the spring raid afterwards since spring raid has invincibility from frame 1 to 10 so he eats a free hit mostly. _-_ or atleast thats what happens for me. try it out.

the 22B SMP was put there to make sure that noel couldnt do haida loop anymore in CP in order to kill off the loop. Thats the only reason the SMP is there really otherwise it serves no purpose for her overall. Doing 22B again in the corner into SMP shots just allows noel to do more damage in her corner combos as mentioned earlier and allows her to maintain her form of oki since we want to avoid doing a bloom trigger combo ender as it has almost no oki oppertunity for us as we have experienced this for several games already in the past where the ability for your opponent to manipulate their tech on wake up was too much for noel to handle and became more of a guessing game for her than her opponent. 22B combo enders in the corner fixes this issue in CP in several ways. It creats a knockdown state for us to be able to reset them into another combo if they dont tech fast enough. This wasnt really possible back in previous iterations of BB where they will still blue beat on you and noel will pretty much be riding on a blue beat attempted reset / force tech for days until the opponent decided to tech after the combo was already over thus screwing noel over on the wake up game. the second thing 22B enders do is create our oki from drives, safe jumps, etc. It creates enough space for you to catch roll techs and punishes quick get ups and pretty much forces your opponent to neutral tech which is the overall goal while maintaining offence with options to counter their defensive options like a dp for example.

possibly. it seems harder to catch ragna than it is with jin imo.

btw who are you practicing on as the dummy?