dioxideUniversa

I haven't been able to get the 5c otg 2c to work on Plat. Is it possible or do you have to do the guren variant?

I was also wondering about this, since j.b -> j.a deals more damage and has aforementioned spacing implications, but then I always see j.a -> j.b in JP match videos. I've messed with both and I'm not sure about the reasoning just yet (other than j.a -> j.b might be a little easier...?)

It's pretty nice, but as others have said, the spacing is pretty situational. If 6a didn't move him forward anymore (is there much merit to this when it's even on block?), it'd probably be better.

Define better? When I had a lower end computer, I found Chrome took less memory run than say, Firefox. Or Opera, or IE. Have you tried any of those?

I've been having an issue around the site with clicking any links sometimes causing a file to be downloaded (index.gz is what I'm seeing on the wiki right now) instead of actually going to the page. General forums link, unignore button to display a message, pages on the wiki, you name it. At first I thought it was my browser (Chrome 16.0.912.63 m,) but it does it in Firefox and IE as well. Since it's on the wiki and the forums, it makes me think it might be a server issue.

The damage and high carry really does make a difference in addition to the blatant meter efficiency. He doesn't have the high damage off parries like he did in CS1, but he does have much higher damage for normal combos. I'm skeptical of whether all those things are worthy of making him S, but I don't pay a whole lot of notice to tier lists in general.

If timed properly, 66 2c works instead of 66 5a. It's not that difficult. The spacing on Shippu has to be pretty close though and it seems fairly unrealistic to me in general for a real match setting. A 3 star 5c combo gives 4465 damage if you do the short version (66 j.B j.A -> 2c instead of -> 5c otg 2c. The latter would do significantly more damage than the Shippu combo.) The only thing it's maybe worth using for is 6c, but using 6c in pressure/footsies seems like a gamble, especially at the range you would have to use it at for it to work.

Spacing 6A is difficult because it moves you forward so much. This kind of hurts its flexibility as an AA option. I find myself 5a'ing a lot still. However, I haven't played a whole lot of actual matches yet, so I haven't gotten to work with it enough to say more.

IIRC 2D still eats green bursts, but no other parries do. Will do some testing with this subject later.

Max magnetism length appears to be about 16 seconds.

Excluding the 623a requires another j.B inbetween the j.2a Airdash j.2a, which is techable before the 2nd j.2a. This is with 2c sj.B, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to make 2c j.B work out... (2) Fatal Hotaru -> IAD -> j.B -> 5c -> otg 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [3262/1.25] The sj.B has to be delayed for the spacing to work and it may not work at all on smaller characters. Instead of 5c otg 2c, you can do 5c -> Gurren -> IAD -> j.B -> j.A -> 5c -> otg 2c for a longer version that shouldn't have spacing issues. Using j.2c instead of j.B requires Kishuu after the 5c if the j.2c is timed properly. 5c otg 2c never works. Lack of untech frames makes doing the j.2c early enough for the 5c to space correctly impossible from what I could discern. @Spark: Do we know how many frames the j.B -> j.2a gatling window is?

I took some time to lab some of CSE Hakumen's new midscreen combo paths to post in writing for anyone out there who happened to import it. This isn't at all a comprehensive list and contributions are welcome. There may be a little more damage/corner push to milk out of some of these as my execution isn't the best. It's also possible that a couple of these could be character specific. Please let me know if there's any glaring issues! Renka (3) Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> Hop -> 2c -> j.b -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.A -> 2c -> sj.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [3666/1.25] (3) Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> Hop -> 2c -> j.b -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.A -> 5c -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [4076/1.75] Zantetsu (3) Zantetsu(2) -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [4151/0.8] (4) Zantetsu(2) -> Kishuu -> 2c -> j.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.a -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [4442/1.3] Tsubaki (3) 66 Tsubaki (non CH) -> IAD -> j.2c -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [4177/1.1] (4) 66 Tsubaki (non CH) -> Hop -> Kishuu -> 2c -> j.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.A -> 2c -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [4181/1.3] Throws [*](1) BC -> Guren -> Hop -> 5a -> j.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [2437/1.2] [*](1) 4BC -> Guren -> IAD -> j.B -> j.a -> 2c -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [2617/1.5] [*](0) Air BC -> j.2c -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [2937/1.4] [*](1) Air BC -> j.2c -> 5c -> Kishuu -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [3183/1.4] * * I'm convinced you can do the standard airdash j.B j.A 2c relaunch for this combo if you delay it properly, but my execution is too poor to work with it consistently. I usually drop it at the 2nd 2c (though it is possible,) but I think you can maybe continue from there if you do an sj.B. If someone else could look into it it'd be great! Parries [*](0) 5d -> 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [2385/2.0] [*](0) 2d -> 2c -> s.jB -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [2085/2.2] [*](0) 6d -> 667 -> j.2c -> 2c -> j.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.2a -> j.C [2514/2.35]

Please quit shitting up Sophisticat's thread. Don't get all defensive when people think you're terribad for saying something genuinely ignorant like "blocking isn't important."

If you get a cheapo stick, it is basically guaranteed you are going to want to replace it later. Better to save up for something good.

Assuming the frame data didn't change much with Mu's DP and Kishuu, it should still work since her DP is 9 frames active and Haku's Kishuu (I believe?) has 12 frames of property invuln. Her DP is 10 frames start up though, so you would have to do it on frame 2 or onwards to not get caught by the 9 frames. (17 total frames for kishuu vs. 19 total frames before recovery for her DP.) I don't know if her DP got changed besides being usable in the air, though. I couldn't find info on it on the forums at a glance.

Speaking of 5c 2c in combos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEGvcC5qauw#t=13m35s

Throw Reject Miss is, in fact, a real thing and a good player will try it on you if they figure out you're option selecting their throws or reacting too quickly. Hell, they could even fatal you for it (though I've no clue off the top of my head if 214abc is a good combo starter. Proration seems to suggest maybe.) Hitting 3c after blocking 236b does not help Haku in the slightest unless the Lambda is planning on hitting 2a on -4. Throwing out a 3c after 236b and it being blocked is even worse than Lambda getting a 236b blocked, especially at that range. Also: Netplay and claiming noone techs throws online is not relevant to this matchup in specific whatsoever. Not everyone who reads this thread even does netplay. Haku players would have an awfully easy time online if people theoretically never teched throws.

All these things seem to be sort of implying that the Haku is doing said things at the wrong time, which I feel isn't saying much. Similarly, if the Lambda is using 6D when she shouldn't and whiffing it, it's 45 frames recovery. If Haku is walking forward and crouching, it will whiff if he stays out of range. Since it takes so long to recover, he can easily hop in and begin pressure. This is in Spark's post.

No Hakumen seems honestly surprising (given that there's blazblue characters at all, I guess?), but yeah. Opinions. They have Pikachu on the cover. Obviously their definition of "greatest" has no room for srs bsns characters like Haku. Or Sol. Because Sol is srs bsns.

Probably a safe assumption, since it's so much easier to get the opponent to the corner for cheap where the magatama really make a big damage conversion. I see jp Hakus using 2 star combos midscreen when they have like 6+ stars all the time. Actually was surprised that there were no parry combos in this video because I have seen some instances in match vids of ones that could have greater carry than CS2 versions/combos with minor changes to CS2 versions.

4BC, walk back, 5a, j.2a, etc.

This is the sort of thing I was talking about, except specifically about the difference in Hakumen's falling time based on whether or not you actually counterhit them out of something. I found out it typically does the faster fall I was describing when you actually CH them out of an attack vs. using training mode's force counterhit, which seems to act like a non-counterhit. I know about the j.2c/2c link and I sort of regret even mentioning it at this point I only mentioned it to note evidence of a height/spacing difference, not as a "why doesn't it work?"

The point I was trying to make was that the IAD can be done significantly earlier when Hakumen lands like in the picture on the left, but most times in practice he lands like he does on the right, making the 2c much more unrealistic than 5a or 5b. I'm mostly just curious as to what exactly causes the difference in recovery time.

Okay, I did some more testing with this, and the results confuse me. I recorded myself attempting to do TK Hotaru -> IAD -> j.2c -> 2c and it blue beated at the 2c. However, sometimes when I played it back, it did not blue beat and it looked just like the TK Hotaru in the video. Both were fatal counters off Ragna's 5d. Below are two screen caps from the same recorded inputs (but not the same playback): On the left is it working like in the video, and on the right is what I usually get (and also the way it looked when I actually recorded the inputs.) The left shows Hakumen landing far sooner than the cap on the right, where he is still falling. What makes it work like on the left sometimes? The only difference was the fact that I had to manually 5D with Ragna. Does it depend on when it hits or something? Positioning? edits for clarity

I realize you're supposed to land first. What I meant was that he lands much faster than when I do TK Hotaru, so my IAD doesn't get there fast enough and I can't do the j.2C delayed enough, etc. I experimented for a while with hitting B for Hotaru at different times, but if I put it out as early as possible it still takes much longer to land than he does in that clip. I can't get hops to land that quickly, either.