Primiera

Anyone use j.BBC combos over j.BB in their oki? j.C isn't an overhead, of course, but it adds a few hundred damage and a little bit more meter to most or all of her combos. You have to adjust, like instead of corner j.BB > 5B > 5C > 2B > 236A > 236A > 5B > 5C > 5AB in the corner it's j.BBC > 5B > 5C > 236A etc, and IIRC from my testing you have to stop at 2B for a damage ender rather than 2C. Corner crouch confirm combos were untouched, just more damage (IIRC). I don't know, there doesn't seem to be much reason NOT to add in the j.C unless you're going for j.BBA or mix-ups like j.BB > naked AoA or Skull Cracker.

Hmm, it looks like Corona Upper as a combo ender is pretty much only to be used when when you don't have meter for DT and you're trying to kill the enemy. Does that sound about right?

Is his command grab invincible? The wiki makes no mention of it. I guess it really shouldn't be, considering its damage and his high lows already. Also, is Sasquatch the most hated character in the game? I have mained high tier rushdown characters in games before (Chie, 3S Makoto, SFxT Lili, etc) but I've NEVER gotten the backlash I'm getting with Sasquatch. People online feel robbed in a way I thought only gimmick grapplers could create.

I feel you, brother. There are some great jump-ins (Hsien-Ko's j.MP, Victor's j.HP, Q-Bee's j.MP, etc) in this game so amazingly abusable against anti-airs that some (online) people just jump all day. Mixing up jump left with jump up and some jump right for good measure. You gotta go A2A, chicken guard into retaliation, or get out of the way and try to whiff punish in a lot of cases to beat them.

Even a preemptive st.HP would probably trade at best with Victor's j.HP. From my experience, I'd say move back and try to make him attack a Sonic Wave or Poison Cloud if they're being too predictable, or go A2A with j.MP and j.HP.

A slightly small fix to the OP, but still an important one: This is not true. Plinking only gives one possible extra frame to a link, though adding extra inputs gives more of a chance for a proper plink. The only reason I bring this up is in case someone wants to get an arcade stick just because they think they can get SSF4's Rufus's st.LK > st.HP as a 5F link or something.

What are the stock jump-ins for Datsquatch, both against chicken blockers and just plain jumping in? j.MP > j.MK seems to be the best for a pure jump-in. Not sure what chains to do in the air.

What's the direct counter to Anakaris's ES command grab? It seems like jumping forward is the only standard punish if used during pressure, though I could be wrong. Going for command grab in general in this game is tough because of mashers AKA Tech Hitters, and how good chicken blocking can be. Usually you have to dash during pressure, canceled into command grab, or empty jump command grab to land one, and in Q-Bee's case, empty triangle jump works just as well. Remember, if your opponent won't let you land a command grab due to mashing or jumping, you probably CAN land a jump-in or a frame trap, which hurt more on average anyway.

Because this game is played in Turbo, I wonder: do we have the opportunity to hit every frame in links? Like, because the game is going faster than normal, will a 2F link actually give 2/60 of a second to complete, and if not, what's the difference?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone block for that long - in any fighting game.

What's the verdict on 41236KK in the air, the bee EX move? The wiki says it's junk, but I find it covers an angle she has no other strong answer for, specifically when an opponent jumps in at her predictably after a string. I've seen some top players use it sparingly too.

I'm making this thread because Chie is a hugely pressure oriented character, and the only other information we have on this forum is mostly related to her knockdown game. Summarily, this is a guide for what to do when you are in the opponent's face and you have momentum, often after a blocked jump-in, blocked or hit 5C dash cancel, or a dash in 5A/5B/2A. The mix-ups are listed in a mildly relative order to how good they are and consistent in her pressure, though by no means is this a "best to worst" order. Mix-ups: 5A stagger pressure - This is the most consistent form of hit-confirming Chie has and can be the basis of opening your opponent up. The standard string is 5A delay 5A (so as to link 5A but not go into 5AA) microdash 5A. You can throw in 2A > 5A at any time to keep the opponent honest. Done properly, you can even block Furious Actions by holding back during the 5A. Upon hitting with 5A (or 5A > 5A), you can go into 5AA and then crouch confirm or stand confirm into optimal combos, or 5B > 2B > JC > JBB > JD into ender if you confirm an aerial hit. If you get nothing going, after a few 5As, you can back off to bait a Furious Action, then 5C dash back in or dash 2A, 5A, or 5B. If blocked excessively, you can go into further mix-ups, but you can always come back to this as low risk pressure. IA JC frame trap - An excellent tool for hitting opponents trying to throw or press buttons. On counter-hit you get her beefiest jump-in combos, and on block you can keep coming in for a JB or dash away if you'd like. JC has aerial halting properties, so it can be used as a semi-cross-up to land in front or in back of your opponent after as a jumping mix-up, and against some Furious Actions like Yosuke and Labrys, you can flat out dodge their reversal if aimed above the opponent. Jumping mix-ups - Beyond just JC, there's a fair bit of trickery to be had when jumping. Chie can jump cancel most of her ground normals at any time, blocked or hit (5AAA, 5B, 2B, or 5C recommended for most frame advantage). You can neutral jump air turn and cross the opponent up, empty jump throw, empty jump 2A, air dash JBB, air dash JBBA, air dash JB > 2A, etc. One Chie specific trick when the opponent is cornered is to use 5AAA, jump canceled into a forward jump air turn in the corner. This brings the opponent forward slightly and allows a cross-up where one normally can't happen. 5A into CD or 5C Dash CD - Chie's throw. It's not the best thing to land because you don't get good oki after, but sometimes the opponent will be so focused on guarding that they'll constantly leave themselve's open to throws, and more importantly, once thrown once or twice, the potential fear of a throw which will give more of a basis for 5A pressure to hit your opponent. 5AB - Chie has the fastest AoA in the game, and it leads into oki or good damage no matter where on the screen. Punishable on block if you don't OMC it - it's best to use sparingly and in conjunction with stagger pressure or 2AB > 236236A mix-ups to open your opponent up. 236A OMC 2A - Many players will automatically block high during a 236A in anticipation of the 236A/B/AB follow-up, or they'll try to instant block the hits - with the OMC, you get a surprising low, or you can back off and bait a Furious Action. 2AB > 236236A - While Chie has a very strong overhead game, her sweep is no joke if you have meter. You can turn her sweep into 5K damage with 100 meter on hit, and another mix-up on block as you retain plenty of frame advantage. Useful for catching the opponent blocking high or trying to chicken guard. You can also just use 2AB with no meter during pressure and jump cancel it into JC or J.3D. Note - going for 2AB > 5DD pressure as a guess has a HUGE gap in between, not recommended whatsoever unless you know the opponent blocks high. 5B > 2DD - There's a very large gap here, and an opponent pressing buttons WILL hit you, but ultimately if your opponent isn't getting opened up via staggers and they're not using Furious Action, this is a fantastic way to start another mix-up as you essentially get your choice of oki on block. On counter hit, this combos and you can follow it up with a jump-in or 236B > 5A into a solid combo. 2B/5B/5C > 236AB - A good way to end a block string if you're unsure of your opponent's habits, as you get a solid high/low after into 2A or 236B/AB. 2A is recommended as you can go into stagger pressure on block, though you get a stronger combo if the 236B/AB hits. 5C > 214D frame trap - There's a 9 frame gap between the 5C and 214D on block, which sounds bad, but it's actually a very strong frame trap due to the distance it can be done from and the awesome damage gotten if it counter hits. On block it's +12, which allows for a dash up 5A or 2A, or a safe 2D from further out, into further pressure and mix-ups. 5B or 5C dash canceled - Chie is left at -1 after this on block, so it isn't as good as stagger pressure for lockdown. Still, when pushed out it can provide a means back in, especially if you back dash after stagger pressure baiting buttons/FA. 5C > 236B - While not a commonly used mix-up, and for good reason, it's a direct and deadly counter to trying to chicken guard Chie during pressure.

Thanks for the insight. I'm learning the game and my opponents have been quickly realizing that it's by no means a free IAD after a cr.MK, though it's so tempting because it's one of her few damaging and continuing pressure options. I'll definitely be jumping more (and floating, definitely try to put that in) than IAD after it, as I've learned IAD is the respect option rather than the go-to. Also, I've noticed almost everyone I play will mash normals after I do, say, blocked IAD j.LP, cr.LP, cr.LK, probably not for a Tech Hit at our level. I find IAD is hard to punish this consistently depending, and trying to frame trap with dashing normals is nigh impossible. The only thing I feel comfortable doing is delaying after the cr.LK slightly and hitting a cr.MP > cr.MK; maybe I'll just jump more instead of IAD.

I'm still learning her myself, but I think I can offer some insight: 1. Checking the opponent's jumping habits and playing good poke games is vital in the meta-game. IAD is not a good way in unless you can keep your opponent's jumps in check and their standing pokes stuffed. Other than that it's about good mix-ups and capitalizing on her bubble oki. 2. Be able to IAD on both sides consistently, practice bubble oki, and be able to do cr.LK or st.LK xx 41236PP on command (actually very tight). She's not a technical or complex character outside of her IAD dependency.

What can be done against Sasquatch's DF? I'm a DS newbie but it seems like free pressure. I use Q-Bee, BTW.

Would everyone here be okay if I made a new topic about her pressure strings and options? I feel that hasn't gotten much exposure at all on these forums, and while I'm sure the vets here have most/all her tricks and frame traps padded down, it'd help the new guys and all the Europeans out soon.

Between IAD jumping normal > cr.LP > cr.LK > cr.MP > cr.MK and IAD jumping normal > cr.LK > cr.MK > cr.HK, which should be the go-to BnB? I find the mix-up game after a cr.MK to be relatively good except for when opponents have a strong horizontal normal they can mash while crouched, negating both IAD and st.MP, and the only thing that really seems to work at that point is cr.MK, which completely ends pressure on block or hit. EDIT: Apparently 41236PP is the answer to those who try to low poke you after a cr.MK? On the other hand, it does more damage than the sweep combo, builds more meter, and if you can get your opponent to simmer down it's another mix-up. The sweep combo gives good positioning but it's harder to stop the hit-confirm at close range and I'm not sure how to deal with teching too well. Thoughts? Also, any tips on beating Sasquatch, Hsien-Ko, and Rikuo with her? Sasquatch in particular gives me a lot of trouble, he puts out far too much damage and can stay on Q-Bee for days.

I think some combos will drop with 2C though. Pretty sure Throw OMC 2A 2C yellow combos, as it always does the times I've accidentally done it.

Excellent work.

You could say I'm ... "resurrecting" this thread. I have some questions on Q-Bee. 1. How are you really supposed to hit-confirm into 426PP? It doesn't seem like IAD j.LP/j.LK/j.MP > st.LK/cr.LK is enough to choose to cancel or not, especially because of the speed at which you have to cancel, though I'm unsure and haven't sufficiently practiced this. I understand 426PP is relatively safe on block, but I don't like ending my pressure and wasting meter if blocked. 2. How best do I land command grab? Empty IAD after an advantageous normal? It doesn't seem like trying to tick into it from the ground works at all. 3. Best way to avoid Rikuo's bubble if used when Q-Bee is cornered? Probably merely my day 1 experience, but it seems pretty damn near impossible to get out of it when used against me cornered, regardless of if oki or not.

Quite true! I used to play on the crappy Xbox controller and could use any character I set my mind to.

If you end up not liking Chie, you might want to give Akihiko a whirl. I find the pad players on my list always gravitate towards him. His combos are about as easy as Chie's and it's hard to keep him out for long because of his uber quick Kill Rush and low jump arc (match-up dependent of course).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cmqeJxMpOhA#t=2784s Kirisame making Chie look like an art form. Seriously amazing how he plays. I'm totally stealing his corner frame trap 214D > 2DD, I always dashed in for 2A on 214D's block and had to guess if they'd evasive action.

When ending a corner BnB with 5CC > JC > JB > dj.CC > Corona, is it character specific on who it works on? I find fat characters like Hakumen get picked up easily, but some characters like Hazama will not only whiff the final JC on, but if you SJ cancel 5CC you'll miss the pick-up JC. I suppose it doesn't matter too much as I like Corona Upper's oki better with just 5CC > JCC, but it's good too know if I ever need extra meterless damage.

I've been thinking about switching my mid-screen oki BnB from 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2AB to 5AA > immediate 5C > 2B > 5B > 2AB. It would make crouch confirms even simpler than they are, instead of 5AAA > 236B it'd be 5AA > 5C > 236B, which has absolutely no variation three hits in. Does anyone know the pros and cons of doing this over the stock BnB? Like a worse knockdown or inconsistency with hit-boxes?