Primiera

Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I know the frame data, I was just wondering what the recommended string is for standard pressure. 5AA > 5B converted into stuff, 5A > 5B, 2A > 5B > 5A, etc. I don't play Yosuke, I'm seeking this information out for a friend, so I don't have much of a basis on his stagger pressure.

What's up with 5B stagger pressure? Is it legit or does it have flaws? What is the standard string, and what should it go into on hit?

Probably asked, but would you guys say it's worth doing "optimal" meterless 5AA combos over 5AAAA? I don't ask that out of laziness or inability to do them, I ask because the damage really doesn't seem worth it on the optimal ones over the meter you gain from 5AAAA and sometimes 2A whiffs mid-combo due to spacing.

How do you decide when to use 2B > 236C etc as an AA over going for CH 2B into a 5K damage combo? Is it guess-work to confirm the CH, or are there tricks to it?

I see MarlinPie do 236236D OMC > 5AB > 236236D whenever he needs to finish off an opponent. Is that optimal?

Very good! I'd be interested to know the numbers on that. For reference, the old combo's numbers: 5B (CH) > 2D > 66 5B > 2B > 5C > JC > JBB > J.8D > 5AB (0%@3,657) I don't play P4A anymore or I'd grab it out of storage and check the numbers myself Also, a question to Arc System vets: I really, really love Chie in this game. Everything about her is perfect. The new trend in my friend list is the new Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus. I'm really on the fence about getting it, but I've heard this Jam character is very similar to Chie? How similar is she? Oki oriented? If not Jam, is there anyone really similar to Chie for me to try out?

You can string into most of her attacks if you're quick enough unless they instant guard. The only notable normal (outside of 5AB or attacks that don't cancel into normals) that doesn't string is 2A > 5C/2C, there's a gap in-between. The only stagger she has is 5A > 5A pressure; it's +1 on block, and if you micro-dash it's very hard to escape constant 5As. 2A can and should be thrown in there before and after but it's 7 frames compared to 5 frames. On the other, less air-tight hand, she can chain into 214D, which on block allows for a free dash forward 5A/2A, and you can cancel your normals (preferably 5C but 5B works too) into 2DD, or jump cancel your normals (preferably 5AAA, the move with the most block-stun, but 5B and 5C work too) into J.3D. There are some pretty large gaps in some of those but you can keep players who mash As or Bs honest by using 5A stagger or jumping canceling into JC, or just use a string into 214D for a fat FC combo.

So it was a sweep into a mix-up JC, not a full combo right? Did the JC > JC > 236B all combo?

I definitely did speak too vaguely and inaccurately. I readily admit the mix-up potential is still there, if not better mid-screen than in the corner. In my puny defense, there's no denying the reward is worse. JBB on hit will always result in more damage for oki or 236236C/D in the corner, especially if catching a croucher. About the only 5D mix-up that stays consistent in or out of the corner (with a cross-up leaving Tomoe on the other side) is 2A > 5AA > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 5B > 2AB. A successful mix-up after a blocked jumping mix-up will also lead into far more damage in the corner (5AB, 2A > 5A stagger, 214D, JC, J.3D, JB > 236AB > 236B, 2AB > 236236A). I do suppose there's not much reason to give up Tomoe pressure at all if you can't end the round or put them damn near KO.

I think many players do it because mid-screen oki is MUCH less profitable on a successful hit, so many will just forfeit Tomoe oki mid-screen in favor of a little more damage into more pressure. AFAIK there aren't real setups or meaties after 236A > 236A outside of the corner, though you do have the advantage in the situation. BTW, you'll probably never want to do 236A > 236A into nothing in the corner.

Don't abuse 5C much, 2A and smart jumping (with j.C stalls to bait AAs) are key to low-risk footsies. Learn optimal combos and her plethora of mix-ups. Learn her oki options after everything, not just sweep. Go into oki enders or at the least 236A > 236A with no follow-up for most combos unless you can kill your opponent or come damn close. Learn to crouch confirm!!! Crouch confirming can add 1,000 damage to lots of combos.

Looking really solid, ZomB.

Thanks. Wow, 236CD is +4 on block! Could you check if your source differentiates more between 2D and 5D? Clearly they're different in either start-up or active frames.

The starter matters a lot here. I recommend never using a combo that scales the juggle ability more than 2A > 5B > 5C, including 2A > 5B > 2B if you can help it.

From Zoular, a pretty good Kanji vs. Chie video: http://youtu.be/adQTBiUrT0A?t=8m13s

2AB > 236236A> 5B > 5C > JC > JBB > J.8D > 5AB (50%@2,620) - mid-screen oki ender off a naked sweep Power Charge mix-up. 2AB > 236236A > 5B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 5B > 5C > 5AB (50%@2,994) - corner oki ender off a naked sweep Power Charge mix-up. 2AB > 236236A > 5B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 214D > 236236D (100%@5,388) - near corner/corner Super ender off a naked sweep Power Charge mix-up.

Why not AB though? Would that use 50 SP instead of the standard 25 SP because they're separate moves? The B ender not only does more damage and is safer on block, but it gives a much stronger juggle opportunity than A. This is unrelated, but no one should ever do a 236A ender to 236A on block if you're banking on a high/low guess.

Thanks guys, I'll try that out later. Why the B version? Just preference?

I think the only ways to punish Moonsault > Moonsault is to hold 9 after blocking and either J.A or air grab. Unfortunately, J.A is really finicky at this point and comboing after it is quite strange, even off CH, as she lands crossing Yosuke up. Even though you can punish predictable Moonsault > Moonsault, he still can Kunai or fake you out, and as far as I can tell if he completes his Moonsaults he's safe from Chie. Oh well, Evasive Action and air blocking also work if you want a low-risk way out.

I'd like to come back to this. I find this nigh impossible for me to do for some reason. I can consistently get Chie to flash blue from 236AB in the air low to the ground after JB or naked, but I can only on the rarest of occasions get the follow-up Skull Cracker to come out. Most often I get a 5AB when I attempt this. Is the input definitely just aerial 236AB > land A/B/AB?

Okay ... say you KNOW someone is holding up-back while you're pressuring them (within reason, they'll react to a blocked Rampage), 100%, you might as well be the one holding up-back ... what's the most damaging thing Chie can do against that? Blocked 5C > 236B into pain?

I've noticed that, as is, 5B is already a better AA than 2B in a lot of situations, especially when stopping bad air dash attempts in. That horizontal movement, start-up, and recovery of 2B are terrible.

Alright, I definitely will, but between Borderlands 2 and my replay of the actual Persona 4 it's gonna be some time before I get back into P4A.

What would you guys think about a true oki/mix-up thread that lists scenarios, options, and what-beats-what? It'd examine frame traps and pressure strings including what each character can do to mess with them, the D options she can do and whose DP or 5A will beat them after a knockdown, optimal oki and damage enders for each capitalized hit, etc.