Angry Guy of DE

As far as strings go I've been making use of gatling 5B > 6A > and then either back to 5B or 6B for the overhead. I stagger some strings like 5C >C depending on whether they IB the first 5C. Staggers are very unsafe when the opponent IB's the first hit but getting the 5CC counterhit allows easy corner carry where I can take advantage of orb oki. Things I admit to not using much is Asteroid vision C with D follow-up and using CT in strings. I wish the D follow up to Asteroid vision C could be done by itself with j.2D as it can result in frame advantage depending on how close you are to the ground. Watching high level play can offer good insight not only with combos but also on how they hitconfirm and make use of normals. Micro-dashes are used often to give 5B more range or used with 6A to let her get under the opponent when they try to airdash in. Also watch on how they predict bursts and use Rapid cancel, Jump cancelabe normals, or Shooting star's invincibility to punish it. You need good fundamentals with Makoto and should avoid falling into a pattern during pressure as IB >DP or IB > back dash can let your opponent get away. The more you can do offline matches against other players the more you will understand about applying proper pressure.

Its a more matchup dependant tool overall, its also a given that a non air-tight string can be DP'd if the person reacts in time. Stating that it has no value is based on your experience and review of frame data, but I look at it more in the sense of not only the character but the person's tendencies. I wouldn't try this on a Ragna that will attempt to DP to get out of pressure because the person will always attempt to DP out of pressure. I don't use it all that much because of the reason of startup and the threat of reversal DP, but against people that aren't willing to throw out a 2A or don't have the reactions to stop it I will use it. This might be that American mentality where people will try to 2A after blocking the last part of a string and not during a move with that amount of startup to take it with a grain of salt. Its also not fair to compare it to a pressure string that you Rapid cancel to continue pressure, RC'ing almost anything will let you continue pressure...except maybe j.2C...that thing is just straight ass.

I'm not sure about there being no point to ever use lander blow in a block string. I wouldn't use it heavily but if the opponent expects the A or B follow-up you can get a few good results: 1) Opponent doesn't react and you can get the frame advantage from Lv. 3 and maybe frame trap with 2B. 2) Opponent may press buttons too late and get hit by the move. Can you get combo off of CH? I'll grant that overusage against opponents that will 2A or have a fast DP can get you into trouble, but then that where you use the A and B follow-ups and then vary the timing on those follow-ups. Staggered A follow-ups are great to use and unlike the B follow-up isn't as punishable (A follow-up is like -5 compared to B's -14 before considering IB right?) Like most of Makoto's moves they can be good but don't overuse them as they tend to be punishable if the opponent predicts it and hits you during the startup of them. You don't always have to do a followup from lunatic upper (-4?) and Cosmic ray can be an option to close distance if they block a 6C that you used for footsies. Switch things up and try to smell out reversal DP's and bait it...Do you have those OD combos practiced yet?

I spent some time in training mode trying to figure out what to do against Azrael strings. Then I got annoyed and ran through all 30 of her challenges. After doing challenge 30 I got to wondering how useful her parry would be in the matchup and tried to test what strings could be parried. It seemed that 5B > B followup can be parried. Also 5B > 2C was parried as well. Is it safe to assume that strings that use moves that are frame traps and don't hit low are able to be parried? I was checking whether Jin's 6B could be parried and it seemed to be the case as well. Has anyone compiled what moves that are often gatled into can be parried on reaction?

This matchup can be a test of your patience mostly because getting a chance to summon Ignis can get you smacked by Amane's C moves. Ignis also can get touched by Amane's j.B and disappear forcing you to try and either D summon or use a special move to bring her out. Defense wise Amane is rather weak so getting the corner or even forcing him to block can get you the corner push since he has no real meterless reversal. Once you have the corner make sure he can't air tech and get out of the corner because his movement can make him hard to catch. One thing to be aware of is that Ignis's moves that armor through projectile property attacks will plow through the drills. An Amane that is getting aggressive with drills can get pushed away with airdash back j.6D. Its not a bad matchup but it will be very annoying until you put that dude on the ground and make him block your pressure strings.

Heh, I do tend to forget that. I wasn't considering 5DD since the advantage would be in double digits. That +1 jab was the biggest nonsense for some matchups, I'll hope the lunge doesn't offer similiar free pressure on block.

Most moves in this game aren't positive on block, regardless if the opponent instant blocks. It possibly can be like Mitsuru's Coup that spacing can provide advantage if the end part of the active frames hit. I assume unless it has serious startup point blank lunge would be unsafe or near neutral on block, EX lunge I can easily imagine having advantage on block.

From what I've heard, Shadow labrys is still her own character so Labry's Shadow mode is tied just to normal Labrys. Until heard otherwise Elizabeth and Shadow Labrys do not have Shadow mode so Shadow Lab, or Slab, has the normal mechanics in regards to burst and such.

Aww...Well if its a system change across the board it can't be helped. I wonder if Shadow Lab will be a mixup with a heavier emphasis on resets with the addition of the anti-air grab. I would be happy to spend meter on EX command grab and air grab if Asterius would wait until I release the button before he does it. I'm imagining long range command grab setups with chain knuckle to catch jumpers or ending combos and using the air grab to catch people that tech in the air. Has it been confirmed if a followup is possible from the air grab?

The loss of CH wallbounce with B+D is kind of a shame, but across the board most characters lost easy knockdown into oki setup like Yu. No more 2B > 5B chain sucks...but perhaps the chain knuck will make for it if I can do block string into 2B > Rocket Knuckle > 5C > Knuckle follow-up (?) Titanomachia nerf seems kind of lame with the recovery aspect, I hope it doesn't last more than 1.5 seconds or else we'll have a gamble awakening super. I also don't need to see how many inputs were done during the freeze frame of Titanomachia. That said, I want to hear more about the ground bounce guillotine and the anti-air grab (Public Execution?). If we are lucky the ground bounce can allow AOA to give us the oki setup or potential resets with the anti-air grab. So does Asterius just grab the dude with his hand or does he go Free Whilly and just eat him?

*Actually has to pause to look at how I place my hand on the stick* It might be because I have rather thin fingers since I am comfortable with the AC on the top and BD on the bottom. Just keep in mind the button combinations: A+C = Evasive move and short hop and air turn. Having A and C comfortably close because you will need to buffer Asterius attacks while you are doing strings to continue pressure and protect yourself. Air turn is good with mixups as J.A and J.B can cross up (not) based on timing and air turn. A+B = AoA and Physical EX's and Sweep. Only having two physical EX's, ground axe guillotine and air axe guillotine, EX's aren't involved in most of her strings and bnb's. AoA (All out Attack) the milage can vary since S.Lab doesn't get as much from it but test it depending on your style. Sweep is valuable but space it properly as point blank it is very unsafe without Asterius covering you. B+D = Furious Action. Have this be easy to do but not an accidental input. You will need to do this so make it be a goto move on strings you can punish. C+D = Throw and Persona EX's. BE VERY MINDFUL OF THIS, you cannot negative edge D to do a throw. If you want to throw or throw break you must release D and then press C+D. This is one of the vices of S.Lab where throws will catch you off-guard because you need to let go of a button and then press both buttons. Persona EX's can be of great use in some matchups so take time to see how you like using them. A+B+C = One More Cancel. Sadly S.Lab can't OMC challenge authority or brutal impact but sweep and guillotine axe can help with mixups and pressure. One issue with this input though is that if you are not holding D as well when you do OMC Asterius will do an attack based on whatever input you do. A+C+D = One More Burst. Due to her poor scaling this should be used just as a combo breaker since without a certain setup it won't add much to a combo. Test out different layouts and practice bnb's, bnb's with supers, bnb's with OMC / OMB, and how natural it feels to to Furious Action and Throws. I know this doesn't really answer your question well but the right technique is the one that you feel is comfortable. A good way to test how comfortable you feel with a layout is this IK setup that uses multiple button inputs, set meter to 100, counter-hit state for dummy: 222AB (Instant Kill Mode) > 2A > 5B (5C slightly after) > 2AB (Sweep) > 5C hits and causes slide > IAD (Instant air dash) > J.BB > J214A > OMB > 222AB (Instant Kill Grab) I think I have the right inputs...its a good warmup to test how easily certain inputs are.

I remembered during this christmas break I joined some room of some sacckun or whatever...and then he did some really obnoxious Yosuke before bodying me with Kanji. And then I remember who had that name...

They would say that the good Xbox DL were not playing... Though I lost track of how many wake-up supers GameFaqs did...and how many actually landed. Its kind of an unfortunate effect when you know that you are going to play a bad connection you make mistakes and have less patience to bait things. Never mind the annoyance when the game seems to ignore inputs when you get those less than 2 bar connection matches. I got to say though...people that are quick to post how we lost didn't join or even offer to sub incase someone doesn't show up. I say GG to the people that represented for Dustloop.

See's character line-up...Nard is listed as Elizabeth. Yukiko player beats the guy before him, he then chooses Shadow Labrys...seems legit. I'm only annoyed at myself when Fluxwave and KickA-- put in so much work before us and we couldn't carry for the rest. Though it still begs the question how you get hit by Kanji's IK...bad connection or no.

GG to P4 Player...nothing makes you feel good about yourself than playing against a Teddie that can disrespect everything I do as Shadow Labrys...

Shoutouts to a 100+ entrant "dead-game" as people call it. It really felt like 100 people were in that room, got really hot in there. Its times like that where you wish we had a bigger room for that, especially since the other half was for MK. Nothing makes you really want to go to the lab and get better when you just get rocked by a Teddie that did what Souji did.

"Yeah, Team Elizabeth!" *Insert Mitsuru Team* "..." Though this is an interesting concept, this can allow you to play against a certain matchup you may want to learn more about. Team Shadow Labrys, or "Those other threads don't talk about this matchup"

Janne...why does that sound familiar... *checks replays* Ohhh, its THAT Yu player, gamefaqs huh. If there's an extra slot I'll jump in for Dustloop, so long as I can get connections 2 or higher. PSN: Sojure, character: Shadow Labrys

S.Lab main and a fun Akihiko subber posting on this matchup. Honestly there's 2 postions you do not want to be in for this match: the corner and midscreen where she can harass with 5A. Upclose you can pressure her and aim to bait her dp (its called the box here? ...I always called it the 7x7 asses) since outside it she really is lacking for defense. Coup's are annoying but weave can either teach the Mitsuru to be honest or eat that 1.5k corkscrew punish minimum. Standing D can be weaved and corkscrewed as well so most of her full screen can me minimized by weave if she isn't willing to go at you. j.D will catch you weave or no but you can corkscrew to get under her and either hit her with it or 5B, EX duck might be an option if she uses j.D to stop weave. Every dp you block should be a 5B Fatal Counter, at most a round can be decided by just 3 blocked dps, 2 if she doesn't have burst. If she is under 50 meter go for the grounded 5B FC combo that you hopefully practiced and look at that Ceasar damage. Once she has 50 or more meter opt for airborne opponent 5B FC so you don't have to worry about Bufudyne. Punish her dp so they won't rely on it and then try your rushdown, its always better to remind them of your damage when they make a mistake.

Well after some more tournies and playing Mitsuru's I tossing in some advice that I can give in relation to this matchup... This matchup honestly is determined once you score a KD, after that is simply to learn whether you are playing the average person, or somebody that learns to respect your oki. I would say its best to stay in the air in this match for a couple of reasons, mostly because Mitsuru's 5A can shut down your normals due to its range and because her AAA > 5B > sweep / sweep feint / feint into throw / feint into 4B / feint into j.B overhead. The other reason to stay in the air is because any coup's done as an approach or to hit your persona leave her open for you to hit as you come down. As far as what you should persona-wise; 2C will help with screen control and any stray hit can convert into a KD, 8C helps to keep her from doing j.D to tag Asterius, and 236C for oki on the KD's you score in this fight. Mitsuru's 2B can stuff alot of airdash j.B so approaches should be normal jumps to let you double jump and bait 2B and her dp. It has a good angled hitbox but it isn't as bad as Yu's so try to go over her to avoid it and also to help protect Asterius. Be careful of Bufudyne however, it is air unblockable and you won't be able to jump over it so its another reason to try and go over her on wakeup so it will miss you. If you play careful the dp will be nothing more than a 5B fatal counter magnet since it is air blockable and she can't do anything in the air until she lands, its adviced to start respect once she has 50 meter since 5B and 2B are slow and might not catch her in time. As for Oki, you want this to go two ways: She just dp's and you airblock it into a fatal counter, she chooses to block and you get to do mixups into another KD. Getting broken is bad in this match so you might think that if she dp's your oki 4 times you'll get broken, this is why its important to be in the air and airblock the wakeup dp. If you get the KD from the air guillitine, the laser oki can actually be done so if she does wake-up dp you will block it and asterius stop the laser and often not get tagged at all. This should be done until the opponent learns and thats when the command grab should be used. alternate between empty jump and the j.A setup so that even if a wake-dp is done you can punish it. As far as defensive options go, being in the corner is very dangerous and outside of blocking here are a few things I try to use depending on the situation. Challenge authority D might have slow startup but the amount of auto-guard time is valuable and can catch unwise button presses. The other reason to use this is because unlike the C version, the frame disadvantage is only about -4 (if I'm wrong please correct me) and even if asterius gets tagged by a super you will still be invulnerable while you are in your pose. Another thing I'm looking into is to jump and use the Challenge Authority coming down to bait wake-up dp's or wake-up bufudyne's and see whether or not your safe or even at advantage once you land from doing it. My favorite option is Brutal Impact A, its a very fast, uninterruptable, reversal that is also very unsafe on block...but that is where asterius starts to come in. I've done it twice on streams where Mitsuru does AAA > 5B > sweep you can instant block the 5B and catch them on the sweep. Most people don't respect that move and unsafe moves can be punished with this move if done properly. Its actually funny to use in this match because you can use asterius and simply watch for the coup and BI A in response to it, just be aware of the range of it and what you can use it in response to. Asterius can help cover you if its blocked with 2C or laser so it can work as a strong way to stop people from trying to take a "safe" shot at asterius when you are midscreen from them. This fight isn't that bad once you learn how to deal with her moves and start what you do best off a KD.

*Laugh* It might seem like ranting when you say it but it is the truth no doubt, it was designed that everyone had a viable (relatively) reversal option. The moves have to some extent invincibility but are highly baitable, that along with the fact that you cannot OMC it for 50 meter to have safe wakeup regardless of oki. The super cancel issues is kind of a silly thing that might've caught you in the first week but now it is something that you honestly got hit because you weren't paying attention to your opponent's meter, its actually a far risker wake-up dp into a cancel in other fighters that allow meter to rapid cancel/ FADC/ whatever. Meter management is something alot of people don't really understand, doing a super after a blocked dp is something akin to a frame trap. Characters like Yu and Mitsuru you shouldn't get greedy and try to use a slow move for FC and let them visually confirm into super in response to your action. Other times you should just run under them and guarantee the punish and if they try to super, you not only score a combo but they wasted meter instead of paying attention to your action. Honestly alot of the mixups come down to the level of respect for your opponent, for the most part doing the obvious over and over SHOULD get you blown up and why dp's are available for everyone to stop mindless rushdown...now as for Chie with having a standing A that is +1 on block...

I do hope they continue working on this series since it has a good deal of potential and for a first iteration its not as bad as some other series have been. Some gameplay changes like rematch select would be nice since they already made button config. at character select a time saver for people. Character-wise its hard to really KNOW what should be done...mostly because people (myself included) are heavily biased since the effort / reward isn't the same for most of the cast. Take Mitsuru for this case, it doesn't take much to learn her since she has good normals, strong dp, and high damage in the corner. Week 1 people wanted so many things to get nerfed until you learn to bait instead of going full CS1 ragna. I'm a shadow labrys player and for a while I believed this was a horrible matchup since she could dp any mixups I try, now its simply about being patient and baiting it since if they try it on wakeup I can airblock it and get a FC 5B into a knockdown and start it again. Nothing changed to make her easier to fight aside from learning to be patient and punish people that rely on dp instead of fundamentals, even characters like Yosuke, Kanji, and Yu are easier to fight once you learn to play smarter. Honestly its moreover gonna be changes that help characters use the tools they have, I'm still wondering why somebody like Yukiko has to give blue health to level up agi and yet it resets to zero the next round. Remove the agi break glitch, reduce the start-up/recovery of fire boost so it can be done after a knockdown or strings safely and let her keep half the levels the following rounds like the skull counters for Naoto.

@Chickzama: Command Grab, it can be very valuable in some match-ups like Labrys. anytime you can end with the air guillitine you can do three setups for mixup: command grab, laser, or fist. Generally you seem to just use the fist for mixups and while if it hits raw it does a large amount of damage you generally won't get a knockdown into another mixup from that. The laser is easier to confirm off of and if they block the laser you can do a high/low mixup while you are hidden in the flame. You tend to get broken alot in matches, throwing out 2C full screen can let characters like Yu, Mitsuru, and others to hit him and take a card. Characters with a fast run speed can run in and hit him while he is recovering, the yosuke player did that a few times and that takes a card and leaves you without that move for a second. If you want to use 2C often it is a good idea to cover him by simply being in front so projecties like chain-knuckle will be blocked by you. As far as strings go remember that 2B can chain to 5B and vice versa, as for Asterius you can use 5C, 2C, and the laser to make it safe as well as allow you to continue pressure. Titanomachia can be good to start pressure but think on what inputs you'll use, also be mindful of whether you get to do it off CH dp. Meter generally won't be used for EX's in some cases so its either for supers or OMC's to continue mixups. While Challenge Authority D is not used often don't forget these 2 things: its only -4 on block and even if Asterius gets hit you will be invulnerable throughout the animation. Brutal Impact A is very fast and invincible, but unsafe on block if Asterius doesn't cover you with 5C, 2C, or laser. Long story short I would advise practicing command grab setups and be more cautious when using 2C to avoid getting persona broken.

This is a match-up where Shadow Labrys has multiple advantages because of two things: She has no strong wakeup options and that she has difficulty stopping Asterius. Yukiko's zoning gets stopped because her fans are not strong enough to break a card, this means that only her agi and maragi moves have enough power to stop Asterius. All of her C and D moves are multi-hitting but have no single hit that deals 400+ so Asterius won't be broken so outside of the agi moves and supers Asterius has free reign to 8C to stop her zoning full screen. One thing to be aware of is that Yukiko has two unblockable setups, one that is a high/low unblockable and the other is with firebreak. When Konohana-Sakuya...Yukiko's persona goes up in the air and comes down it hits high so remember that and also know that her 2C hits low so block accordingly. Approach with either 8C to make her hesitate on doing things with recovery or use 2C to beat any C or D moves she attempts to use. This is a good match-up for you so avoid giving her time to set up her zoning and set up unblockables with D and firebreak.

A tier list that only has three slots is hard to gauge...but thats really because this game has very few "hopeless" matchups since its rather balanced. I guess the general placement is due to overall matchups against the whole roster as well as strength in either damage/mixups/zoning and his or her defensive options. Take Yu for instance: Matchups: Generally at advantage against most of the cast (at worst 4-6 or 5-5 in most cases) and some matchups 6-4 or higher in advantage. Damage: Average without meter and pretty good with meter +awakening. Fatal Counter moves aren't easy to utilize as others though. Mixups: Incredible mixup options with any KD as standing D forces blocking on wakeup and any hit can go into KD and back to D. Zoning: Very strong normals with 5B, 2B, and j.B that can stop most jump ins and be hitconfirmed easily if counter hit. 236C is also a viable projectile to use in some cases. Now look at a character like Kanji (hope I don't get hate for this) Matchups: One of the unfortunate 3-7 (or 2-8) matchup holders in this game and other matchups are difficult if you aren't able to use your strong, though specialized, tools in the matchup. Damage: Very good damage without meter with command throws and very high meterless damage off of counter hit or fatal counter moves. Without Persona, meter, burst, or a counter hit his damage is rather low as his damaging combos generally start off of a counter hit to be able to link off of some moves. Mixups: Poor when in neutral as his ground and air speed are very slow and his mixups start once he is within throw range. At throw range, and especially after a KD, the opponent has to guess on wakeup: Will he dp, command throw, or do a meaty normal? For almost every wrong guess the situation will start again. Some characters that have poor wakeup can potentially be killed from this if they don't have a burst and guess wrong each time. Zoning: D moves can be used to lockdown at almost full screen to enable him to get in and start his mixups, shock status helps him keep you in place as he moves in. His C normals have good range and have Fatal counter properties enabling him to do high meterless damage from it. While not "true" zoning, use of j.214 A, B, and especially EX can be used to catch characters trying to use projectiles at range or jump away.