Angry Guy of DE

I always sweat a little when someone mentions Kagura's command throw, I don't want you to remember that he has that. Just keeping blocking, I'm sure I'll just try a 5B or 6A on you honest >_>. Also super not happy about Kagura's nerf to his Flash-kick, who's bright idea was it to take away 6C's head invul and think that a charge move with head invul is going to be usable...guh. Honestly If Tsubaki's bars were able to be converted into Order Sol levels of damage and her D versions of moves gave her better frame advantage or invul/guardpoint to blow through mashing she could be scary once she gets in. Right now she has a hard time getting in and her damage feels below average without spending meter, bars, or situational confirms. Then again she is almost canon unable to beat anyone in the story...

@Myoro: I think the general mechanic for Instant Block is: IB: Reduced pushblock, (Combined with 3 less frames of blockstun can allow your own pressure or reversal during normally airtight strings) Barrier IB: Increased pushback (more than just Barrier along with 2 less frames of blockstun to give you distance and potentially make opponent whiff normals) As far as vacuum effect normals...I think normal IB increases the vacuum effect and Barrier IB reduces (though normally doesn't nullify) the vacuum effect. Don't quote me on that as I don't know 100% without testing normal block, IB, barrier, and IB Barrier to notice the difference on a move that has vacuum on block.

Well I think with her is that Barrier pushback + Most of Tsubaki's moves causing pushback with limited forward movement or vacuum on hit/block is what hurts her. Then on the opposite spectrum, Azrael 236A even on Barrier IB pretty much leaves him right next to you since the forward momentum counters the pushback.

So since there is a handful of console only characters it would be safe to assume that there will be a patch (likely with balance changes) when they are included into arcade. I don't think there's many issues with the cast (Though I think Shadow Burst damage is a tad bit too high for some obvious characters) but it would be safe to guess that it will be at least 4-5 months from console release before anything is done right?

I would like to say there's a reason why Kagura got x nerfs because so many players were doing things with him... BUT there's almost no Japanese Kagura players, and even those guys seem to drop basic combos. I feel like this loke test was just like, "what do online players hate about some characters? Ok lets nerf that." Lets hope that they digest people's thoughts because if this is what 2.0 will be like, they better not be surprised if a lot of players don't pick it up.

Was just in training mode testing some things and there's a semi-option select that can be done when you IB Azrael's 236A. On IB Azrael is -1/-2 so your 2A will beat out almost any button he presses aside from Growler. Most of the time Azrael may opt to do Growler to catch buttons, backdash to safety, or dash through you to avoid some attacks. If you immediately try to do 5C or 2C Growler will hit you and Azrael will dodge both during his backdash. If you flicker Barrier for just a moment, you will block Growler (And allow CH 2C or 6C for potentially a 5K punish) and if he backdashes the delay from barrier actually times the 2C right to catch him before he can block. I'll have to test this some more and this should only be used against Azrael's that favor these options after 236A on IB. I'll test some things with Azrael trying to dash through you and see if there's options to control that.

It seems like a lot of characters who had strong oki setups were weakened based on the loketest notes. Rachel seemingly lost a lot of her oki from 3C. Kagura feels like he got the Shadow Labrys treatment with her hard knockdown oki setups. In P4U2 her air Guillotine (j.214A/B) does a small ground bounce that intended the opponent to be able to air-tech and not have to wake-up into her mixups via laser and other types of moves. It feels rather unjustified what with his flash-kick becoming significantly less reliable and now his combos and oki set-ups from Stance 2A. Honestly across the board it seems like character's combo routes are being butchered so right now at least for me CP2.0 is going to make me want to spend more time with P4U2 and Xrd. For a character that has mostly 4-6's against most of the prominent cast, somebody REALLY didn't like that when Kagura is played correctly he can run train on somebody. I bet it was somebody who never learned a good ground game and was mad that every full screen air dash got flash kicked on reaction...

Relius/Kagura player checking on the thread. Overall a lot of characters that had good oki set-ups have had them weakened or plain removed based on information from the CP2.0 Loketest. Kagura lost his entire corner [4]6B oki setup with the hard knockdown with Stance 2A since it now causes a groundbounce similar to shadow-labrys in P4U2. Now granted Kagura is waaaaaay lower on the considered tier list but his oki gameplay that prevents delayed wake-up has been almost removed with changes as well as some of his combos so his oki and potential damage has been reduced. Hopefully another update will bring better news but at the moment oki set-ups seem to be purposefully made weaker.

Let's (hope) assume that they digest what people thought of the changes and adjust some of it. There's still time until CP2.0 is officially released so another loke test is possible. around 90% of the people who looked at the changes for their characters were not happy, I'm also just throwing out a number because the only people who seem to be happy are those that are going to play Celica.

Well the updated notes confirmed what I was afraid of with Stance 2A causing a bounce. His oki will get weaker since the [4]6B oki after Stance 2A effectively forced people to block. Stance 6A not hitting after Stance 2A I expected as well...though Stance 6A being slower doesn't help either. As for some of these other notes... Stance 5A guard-point seemingly improved bothers me quit a bit. Outside of characters with dp's most characters can't risk throwing out normal against it when you choose to end strings, the idea that it can beat ID seems absurd to me. Canceling stance moves into CT or OD. I guess that can be useful, but I suspect that with barrier blocking most stance moves combined with the range on CT will make it whiff in most cases. OD could be good but unless his OD combo routes have gotten better confirming from it seems strange. Stance 6C combos into Stance 2B midscreen. That is really nice, how it works probably is because either Stance 2B got faster or an improved hitbox. 5DC has decreased wall-stick. The range on wall stick wasn't that great even now, if you were more than one or two character lengths away you probably won't get wall-stick now. [4]6B has a changed hit motion, making 2C harder to follow up. This probably means the opponent gets lifted up more by the hits of the fireball, delay the fireball so they are closer to ground would help with consistency? Oki options have taken a hit as well as potential combos using Stance 2A. Depending on how much the recovery was reduced Stance 6A could be a better tool as right now it is around -10 on block, making it very unsafe and often a free punish for most of the cast. I really don't like the nerf to his corner oki...

This all sounds like nerfs to me. Not even considering how awful Kagura's only meterless reversal will be now (Its a charge move, its not like you can do it will IB'ing and blocking overheads during strings). I'm more worried about the slight bounce to Stance 2A. I see two potential issues now, one is with a midscreen combo and the other is with the corner [4]6B orb oki that can't be delay teched. So midscreen: 5/2C > Stance 2B (1st hit) > RC > 662C > Stance 5A > Stance 2A > Stance 6A > etc...I hope the bounce doesn't make the Stance 6A not connect anymore. Corner: any bnb that hits an airborne opponent with Stance 2A into [4]6B orb oki. I'm worried that the opponent will now be able to air tech or tech earlier than now which could ruin that entire set-up.

>Kagura Nerfs Who...wha-...How do people even hate this character that is barely even seen? His only reversal is a charge move, so its not even like he can do IB > Flash Kick during block strings. Wow these changes are garbage. This hopefully won't be the final changes because I can't imagine many people to really like the character changes and the OD guard cancel. This just went full marvel with the nonsense that will allow.

wow...that's weak. Kagura's Flash kick was only safe if it was air barrier blocked, If it was blocked on the ground or outright baited it was a free punish. I really hope that the bounce from Stance 2A allows a Stance 6A pick-up otherwise it sounds rather useless. Again wow, that is weak for changes since his only equivalent dp is a charge move so he can't do it on command during some blockstrings or while IB'ing moves. Watch it be ID amount of time to punish it now.

You can do 1DD or 4DD since during the combo both 6D stance and 2D stance are used so both 1 and 4 inputs are read as the 5D input. The timing is tight, once you do Stance 2A just hold 1 or 4 and just mash D so you can recover as soon as possible. You don't have much time to catch them with the 3C so you have to do the stance cancel after Stance 2A as soon as you can. If you have trouble doing it a more online friendly combo exists for a corner combo starting from 5BB: 5BB > 3C > Stance 6C > Stance 2C > [4]6B > 6C > Stance 2A > Stance 6A > Stance 5A > 44 > 3C > Stance 6C > Stance 2B > [4]6A (oki) It is around 3.8K and doesn't require having to the air stance cancel from Stance 2A. It does around 200 less damage and builds 2 less heat though from the earlier corner combo.

Kagura's Dragon Ascent has a B version now... That's the [2]8 C move right? Going by most types of reversal moves, the B version might be faster but has less range or invul on it? All I want is his run speed to not have that horrible start-up acceleration that most others don't have.

Kagura Corner combo with 5B>B starter: 5B B >3C > Stance 6C > Stance 2C > Stance 5A > [4]6B > 6B > 5C > Stance 6C > Stance 2A > 1DD(air stance cancel) > 3C > Stance 6C > Stance 2B (Fire ball oki) Damage: 4052 Heat Gain: 29 Works on Kokonoe and Tager. Able to break 4K meterless 5BB confirm.

Unsure if this is common knowledge but Litchi is able to use her DP to beat any strings that attempt to end with Stance 5A. If a Litchi is willing to DP in anticipation of the move you can end with just the Stance 2B. Because it was made safer (-9 in 1.0 to -5 in 1.1 based on wiki) even on IB Litchi's 11 frame DP cannot punish you on block for Stance 2B. If baited you can do a CH 2C into Stance 6A for a strong punish that offers good corner push. Another move to be mindful of is her guardpoint stance that has similar properties to your own Stance 5A in regards to losing only to lows, throws, and unblockables. Stance 6C is dangerous to use in neutral because you won't be able to cancel into anything in time before the follow-up attack she will get. 2C and Stance 2B can beat it with 2C leading to a CH and Stance 2B offering you the chance for orb oki.

Its a match-up that people don't see much of. Kagura tends to win because the person makes good reads and capitalizes on every hit. Bad zoning gets bodied. Bad pressure strings get flash-kicked. Obvious air-dashes get 6C CH'd for 5K. People that complain about Kagura need to think about why they ran into the giant sword.

Losing to a person once and learned their habits like how badly they like to dp during strings. Get the second match started and bait their mashed dp's by not going through the whole string. Feeling good to make the reads as Kagura against a Litchi. Every CH 2C converts into high damage with oki. Just 2C CH'd him trying to use the guard point stance. "Oh yeah you're going to die with this combo-" *The other player has disconnected* Nobody likes Kagura...Nobody likes losing to a Kagura...Nobody likes getting out-played by a Kagura...

I always go with the belief of the salty runback. One game isn't enough to decide who was better. But holy crap sometimes people get the idea of barely squeaking a win then leaving the lobby. It feels worse when you lost because they did something Yolo or lag messed up a combo that cost you the match.

I would've liked a Shadow version of each announcer, at least for characters that in-fact have a shadow version in-game. ... Of course wanting some-one to verbally berate me when I lose is a little unsettling now that I think about it...

Playing smart is key in this matchup. You'll likely spend most of your time on the ground and you'll learn quickly if you have a good sense of neutral or if approach meant just doing Stance 6C to get in. Everyone should know the Bullet safe jump etc. by now so don't attempt flash kick but delay your wakeup so you can avoid the j.C and start your down-charge and react to her overhead. Learning to IB Bullet's 5C and 2C are what will let you end her pressure. If you IB 2C Bullet is now put into a situation if she doesn't have heat-up levels already: 2C is IB'd : she is now minus enough that your own 2A will CH her attempts to 2A to keep pressure. She can attempt to use 5D to catch you pressing buttons, if you see it and don't press buttons Bullet is now VERY minus on block. While Bullet can attempt to use her DP to avoid orb oki the range on it is very lacking (but don't attempt cross up j.B since you will likely be caught by it). A slightly delayed 5B on orb oki and bait DP's if done on wake-up but still can catch button presses with the orb frame advantage. Don't forget you have a command grab as well, a person that assumes block strings can fall for it especially when you do a delayed 5B on orb oki mixups. Air to air is not advised as you are better off trying pre-emptive 6C's to catch airdash approaches since it puts a good hitbox even if it doesn't have head invul anymore. Don't panic during her pressure strings and IB her 5C and 2C so you can get breathing room to get distance and throw down an orb and make her play your ground game or have to get around your 6C if she tries to do airdashes or lock-ons done too close. 4-6 Bullet's favor simply because of her low-profiling of normals. I treat the neutral similar to the Noel matchup where Stance 6C is not done as an approach option but instead done when you predict a projectile thrown out at a distance.

Netplay making me forget how useful Kagura's command throw is. People never respect orb oki and never get up blocking.

That was really impressive OmniSScythe, you had a strong neutral and you made people crouch block after 5C>C since you did RC>2B for the mixup. Combined with often stopping after 5C>C so dp's would be blocked forced respect on characters that normally blow up Makoto. As far as you hitconfirms go, you seemed to have adapted to her changes in 1.1 considering the nerfs. Were the corner lvl 2's that let them tech in the air mistakes or designed as potential resets with 6A, throw, or cross-under? Match-up wise you pretty much went through the gauntlet of characters and the people playing them. Unless you know certain strings that can be parried (pretty much if you get hit by trying to jump you can parry it) avoid trying it on wake-up since the parry has 5 frame startup so it can get stuffed or worse is the catch doesn't reach the opponent. Relius looked to have given you the most trouble but you seemed to have adapted to just blocking the wheel and then 5A'ing Ignis to de-summon her. If the Relius follows her to 5B you try testing if after 5A'ing the doll if you can parry and catch the 5B he throws. I hope to see more of that in future tournaments, beating LK's Koko with Makoto...I guess he'll have to hope the next version nerfs Makoto further so he can win.

I think the midscreen combo route starting from CH 6C >2C > Stance 5A > Stance 2A > Stance 6A Does not seem to work on Jin or Valkenhayn because of their hitbox on the slide from 2C. The corner variation works on them so I assume this is just a midscreen issue for these two.