Dreize

How exactly would a cooldown nerf work? Something along the lines of him exiting wolf mode then waiting a certain period of time before he can re-enter? Because if that's the case then it'd be extremely problematic. I've heard a lot of Valkenhayn changes from many different people but I have never heard of a wolf-hybrid move wolf meter consumption change. It's actually an interesting concept to be perfectly honest with you, but implementing it properly would be really damn hard since a lot of his combo filler involves those moves like Magaki mentioned. Stopping recovery would probably make the most sense. Generally speaking though messing with the wolf gauge is really damn risky and it just feels safer to give him mix-up nerfs and other things alike since it's easier to gauge the damage that those sorts of things will do to the character.

This is by and large a buff. The pushback on 6C is awful and it doesn't gatling into anything, Valkenhayn players typically don't get much pressure afterwards anyways. A frame advantage nerf is fine though. I mean sure he only gets a combo off of it in the corner, but a damage buff is just unnecessary. If you're getting less than 3.7k off of Valkenhayn's 6C in 2014 you're doing it wrong. Sure it doesn't compare to his 5k meterless in Extend, but 3.7k is more than adequate for CP.

I mean, I can think of PLENTY of Valkenhayn nerfs/changes that actually make sense and aren't terrible in terms of character design choices, but what I just listed together makes a good deal of sense, and I'd probably finalize on a list that's either similar or identical to that. Though If I were actually in charge of patching him I'd definitely put A LOT more thought into the intricacies and such. If Valkenhayn does end up getting patched ideally I'd like someone who actually understands the character doing it (doesn't even have to be a Valkenhayn main or anything like that, just someone who understands the character very well) otherwise silly stuff is bound to occur. I typically use the English VA simply because I don't understand Japanese, though right now the English VA is unplayable. They somehow managed to mess up the wolf sounds this time around.

Hmm, my list would probably look something like... General Changes: -Fix his english voice wolf sounds. -Give me my Extend color back. Buffs: -I'd like a new special move (pretty sure that we're the only character that didn't get one). Nothing great, just a combo filler type move like mondlicht. Doesn't have to raise his overall damage or anything, but I'd like something that makes his corner combos more interesting because right now they are horrendously boring. Don't care if it makes his corner combos harder, just want something more aesthetically pleasing. This may be hard to accomplish but it's all that I'd really want. Nerfs: -Remove head/throw invulnerability from 5D. -Give his w[236D] more start-up. -Remove wolf brake w[j.A] IOH by not allowing him to cancel out of rasen wolf during start-up. (I know we all love this thing, and I know that it's hard to do, but it really shouldn't even be here anymore) -Because of wolf brake w[j.A] IOH removal we wont be able to combo off of a cornered 236B~236B confirm without meter/a 6B FC. Not a fan of this, but it can't be helped. -Remove 5C/2C's geschwind cancellable properties outside of OD mode. -Disallow him to cancel into geschwind wolf on whiff. -Make his 6C neutral on block. -Remove wolf cancellable properties from his 2A/5A. _____________________________________ Seems like a pretty fair list to me, and it's still subject to change/alter. But I'd be perfectly okay with all of these changes. As long as we're not doing stuff that doesn't make sense like a big wolf gauge nerf, removal of wolf lows, removal of key wolf gatlings, other silly stuff that prevents him from having combos, etc I'm fine.

Valkenhayn can definitely be nerfed/balanced properly. They'd have to take away something relatively substantial if they wanted to make him bad though.

Yeah, assuming of course that the lists were meant to be taken seriously.

Makoto is king fish.

Oh, do you mind explaining why you feel this way? I'm kinda curious.

All of this patch talk is kinda interesting I suppose. None of it really means much though in terms of instilling actual change. Hypothetically If you guys were to patch Valkenhayn, what would you add/remove? Just curious.

Nah, I fully understand how Tsubaki works. Still, it was an amazing overhead which is extremely hard to react to and it gave off a substantial reward. As for the whole "But it costs 3 stars argument!" he gains meter back and he gains meter for doing nothing, though I really shouldn't even be going into that argument because god knows that it's been discussed to death and it wasn't even entirely relevant to my main point. I do see why Hakumen mains are upset though, some of his changes just didn't seem to make much sense. 5D active frames buff, 6D nerf making it practically useless, odd damage output distribution, etc. I'm also not in the party that favors nerfing Hakumen, though really it doesn't matter anyways since this thread probably isn't going to instill any actual change. It seems like instead of looking for nerfs/buffs Hakumen players just want change, which is reasonable, albeit not likely to happen.

I hate Hakumen as much as the next guy (much more, actually) but I'd take his CP damage over his Extend damage any day. In Extend it was anything into renka > kishuu = damage, and pretty much everything lead into renka. I mean we're talking about a character that used to get 4.2k from a cornered 5A confirm with 3 magatama. Oh god and lest we forget that 5.3k from a 15 frame overhead with no additional meter required. Christ. Really though his average damage output was actually higher in Extend, whereas his maximum damage output in CP is much higher (please note that I'm solely discussing practical things, so no mugen).

The only thing you'll really ever see is rising j.C > OD > j.C > 3D, etc.

Yeah, I suppose I am. Don't see the room, though.

... If the game is balanced well every character should be viable to a certain extent, including the "simpler" characters. Top tier characters being more complex has absolutely nothing to do with certain characters being unviable. Even now if you want to win tournies you're better off picking someone like Valk, Jin, Hakumen, etc over say Makoto, Platinum, Bullet, etc. There will always be top tier characters. This has nothing to do with playstyles, as long as the game is fairly balanced there will still be a variety of viable playstyles. You're not "unbalancing" the game, you're just making the more complex characters slightly better. Even in really balanced fighting games certain characters are always going to be better than others. That's just the way it goes, not every character is equal, it's not a perfect world. And again, that same logic can still be applied to the current version of CP. It's not exclusive to a game wherein the top tiers are all complex characters. Do you enjoy the complex Izayoi? Nope- if you want to win, you have to play the easy Jin.

Who said anything about Kagura being easier to use than Jin/Ragna? Strawman argument. Being hard to use and being harder to use than Ragna/Jin are two very different things. Anyways, I'm kinda getting off-topic now and drifting away from my original point. Ideally if I were to choose the top tiers for CP I'd want them to be the hardest-to-use characters in the game. Carl, Izayoi, whoever, etc. Work for that greatness, that's the point that I was trying to make. There's really no right or wrong answer here, just my thoughts/opinion and what I'd personally choose to do. Not that it really matters, though. I see you.

Yeah, might as well. Let's just make all the easy-to-use characters top tier. My vote for top tier would go to Carl & Izayoi.

There are honestly plenty of things that they could do.

We're not getting buffed, lmao.

Not too concerned about this upcoming patch.

Omni did exactly what I wanted to do. I want that light blue, matches my main color palette. Might just reset my game to make getting it easier, not interested in prolific sandbagging.

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Ahaha.

Yeah, I'll hop on for a few if you're still interested.

My general stick buying rule is sanwa parts & sanwa balltop. As long as I have those I'm pretty much good, but I do like it to be a bit heavy. The TE body would have been a nice addition too... You've had the stick for what, about 2 weeks now? If QCF motions still feel IMPOSSIBLE then that's probably an issue. Also, if I were you I'd just stick with the square gate. Try not to put too much force into your motions and go for clean & precise inputs instead. Have you been grinding hard in training mode or just netplaying? Because netplaying isn't going to help much here.

I've heard good things about Qanbas, was actually seriously considering picking one up myself. Square gate is the standard. But that's not what I meant when I asked you about what grip you use.