Manta

Personal experience shows me that Tager's 3 lightest pokes are the best. Don't bother with command throws for the most part, he's airborne way too much, but conversely, random ACs catch a lot of shit.

214D > 236A has some limited use against bug storms. The whole move is projectile invulnerable, which catches out some arakunes who think they've got a free approach when you're covered in bees.

Jab people in the ribs and kick them in the shins. The rest follows naturally from there.

GF is much easier when you realise just how damn quick you need to be. GF whiff is one frame longer than a 2B whiff (24F), so you need to be inputting it quick as shit. AC is way longer on whiff (39F) but it actually floats your opponent slightly, meaning they hit the ground later, extending their untechable time, whereas gadget whiff actually drags them to the floor quicker, shortening it.

There's also the inherent newbie unfriendliness of the repeat rate system, where no-where in the entire game does it even mention that this mechanic exists, let alone what moves it applies to. I'm okay with the system of doing it, but it'd be nice if we got some visual effect (Big green hitspark as opposed to yellow or something) so a player can tell when they've hit one.

Shameless copying from the other thread: (NT) (In corner) 360A/B, 5B > 4D, 720C 4D is techable at that proration. (All) (Mag) ... 3C (AC), 2C > AC You need to delay the AC cancel slightly or they'll neutral through it. (NT)... AC (into corner-ish), j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.B >j.D, AC (NT) (Mag)... AC , j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.C >(j.D), 360 On the second one, the j.D land cancels and they land in front of you. (NT) (Mag)...623C, 6C > 22D (whiff), 623C Bounces them towards you in a large arc. (NT/FT/BT) (Mag) from opponent downed at your feet: 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > 623C (whiff), 623C OR 360A A tech trap you'll get if you mess up the part of the combo where the first 623C Connects. Just got to watch how long you hold the AC out for. (NT)(Mag) 3C > 623C (whiff), 623C Again, salvaging what you can when you mess up a 3C flinger and make them fly too far.

It was a gadget finger whiff that made them bounce over him. Also:tager_ex_V3.zip Now with improved calculations and same move rate detection.

[ATTACH]1576[/ATTACH] Now with combo calculator. Enjoy your science.

tager_ex.zip Now with combo calculator.

(NT) (In corner) 360A/B, 5B > 4D, 720C 4D is techable at that proration. (All) (Mag) ... 3C (AC), 2C > AC You need to delay the AC cancel slightly or they'll neutral through it. (NT)... AC (into corner-ish), j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.B >j.D, AC (NT) (Mag)... AC , j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.C >(j.D), 360 On the second one, the j.D land cancels and they land in front of you.

Error on the front page: 360 combos with magnetism 360A/B>AC>J.D>22D [3134/35 for 360A] [4134/39 for 360B] 360A/B>AC>GF whiff>2D [3034/29 for 360A] [4034/32 for 360B] 360A/B>AC>GF whiff>MTW>GF [3793/5 for 360A] [4801/5 for 360B] Missing 3Cs on each one.

neutral tech in the corner and block, if you think your opponent is taking liberties with you, then buffer a reversal of some kind as you tech.

For interest's sake, here's an image detailing how Tager's 7.5k combo breaks down in terms of damage and how the proration falls to pieces: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/images/f/f1/7.5kcombo.png

On your wall, I wrote stuff there.

Wasn't my combo, it was Maho's

Remember that you can't activate GF unless you've hit them with 3C or downed them with j.2C, MTW or similar.

Beware the exceptions. Hakumen's Hortaru (j.214B) much be barrier'd if you're also in the air, which defies the above general rule.

BSledge counter, corner variant: 236B (Counter), 6B > 5D > 236A > 236A, 5B > 5C > 236236B, ender. (3580 with 3C > 22D ender. +400 damage if charged Bsledge is used) 236B (Counter), 6B > 5D > 236A > 236A, 5B > 5C > 236236B, 5B > 5C > 623C, 2D (3883. +400 damage if charged Bsledge is used) Does slightly better than leading with 6B > 6C due to 6C's rather bad 80% P2, also adds on more mag. 3CAC flick doesn't seem to work right at the end, probably due to heavy prorating. Bsledge Mag variant: 236B (Counter, Deep hit), 6B > 236A, 5A > 5C > 6A > 3C > (623C), j.2C, 5B > 5C > 623C, (22D), 6C > j.2C, 3C > 22D (3164, +400 for charged Bsledge) Better than the CH Bsledge combos on the front page, which does 3031, and 3140 damage respectively and gain less heat. Requires a deep hit however. EDIT: By far and away the best: 236B (CH), 6[A] > 2C > 623C > (623C), 6C > j.2C, 3C > (623C), j.2C, 3C > 22D (3319 Damage, +400 for charged sledge.)

Discovery of the day: Turns out that Hammer DOES have a repeat proration. Looking at about 10% or so, so try to avoid using it twice, not that that's usually an issue.

So in other news, BGadget lives. Works better on magnetised opponents, just do 23[6]B to get a little instep after collider finishes in order to get slightly closer. On a similar note, can you do AC, 236B > 236A, 22D if they're thrown into the corner?

Useful fact #1: Led Ley: 37 frames in total (Equal to a whiffed 360B), the first 33 of them are totally invulnerable, Relius players I've seen so far like using this after Gadget Finger. Use 4D on reaction to seeing it due to 4D's long active time, hopefully you'll catch one of the 4 CH frames the move has.

4D doesn't let you follow up with 6C. It only lets you do a 3CAC fling, which is fine if your combo already had a 6C earlier in it. To answer this question: 5A: Bad news now since getting hit by it gives a ton of meter. Awesome on block too. 5C: Getting hit by this whilst magnetised and not at max range will fuck you up good. It's where most of the 150% heat combos are born. 5B: can much more easily be confirmed into a damaging combo either on air or ground hit thanks to its attack level increase. Command grabs haven't changed insofar as avoiding them goes.

I'll go create an account of the wiki. I'll see what I can do, I'll probably do some experimenting and confirmation on what's already there now that I have EX, and then move it to the wiki. EDIT: Or you can go make me one. Are we that worried about vandalism on the wiki?

Okay, this thread needs some serious updates as of EX: (NT) (Mag)...623C, 6C > 22D (whiff), 623C Bounces them towards you in a large arc. (NT/FT/BT) (Mag) from opponent downed at your feet: 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > 623C (whiff), 623C OR 360A A tech trap you'll get if you mess up the part of the combo where the first 623C Connects. Just got to watch how long you hold the AC out for. (NT)(Mag) 3C > 623C (whiff), 623C Again, salvaging what you can when you mess up a 3C flinger and make them fly too far.

Odd, I got to it and was like "oh god, unlimited ragna with mad buffs, ohshitshitshithshit" Perfected him. Turns out being able to start a round with 720 and have it do 11000 damage really can turn the tables.