Mitsurugi

Thanks Newjack ! I meant I can't watch online video nor download CM and vids since I use a comp at work with restricted access. That sucks, yeah, but at least Dustloop is not forbidden. Anyway, I'll try to watch it at a friend's tomorrow.

Nah, either : - both a low and a cross-up (Baiken's Ouren-style, only British and not Japanese) - an unblockable

I don't know what this combo is about, but you could still do a manual JI on the KJT which is the same as its follow-up. Auto-JI only means the move will have JI properties without you manually input a JI command. Hence, a non-auto-JIed move CAN be JIed, only you'll have to do it by yourself and put a little more effort into it. If it is during a combo, easy, do a JI as usual, for instance : K [8], HS, 421S~S FRC, Airdash If it is outside a combo : 427S~S FRC Airdash Depending of your KJT (the 427S part) input and timing, you could get a Super Jump Install (only AD is possible after) or a normal JI (JC or AD). It can be done in many ways, try to find which one you do the best according to your timing and execution : 42147S, 421478S etc. Hope not to be too confusing.

Sorry if it was misunderstood, I meant no offense and agree with you. It is useful and legitimate for ball formations to have its own topic, hence the "indeed" in the previous post.

Corner-Trap > Indeed, such a sheet should help Venom players creating their own strategies formation-wise since all the formations from 1 to 5 balls are described in it. Found in the "Accident Core Venom Thread", sorry for the egocentric self-quotation :

Newjack > Haven't really tried since when doing this combo I mainly aim for damage. If you manage to get both good damage and end with a coin > JcK in order to put a 214P (FRC or not) that would be really sweet. Right off the bat, I think the opponent may be too high for the JcK to connect but to be tested. On some characters in #R and Slash, it was also possible to to a falling j.H, j.D, 6H > whatever (coin, aircombo, DB combo). Though it was not initiated by a KJ FRC, maybe that still is possible in AC ? Render > "combo-starter > 236K > 66 > 6H > 9 (as 6H connects) > 214S (FRC) > etc. or combo-starter > 236K > 66 > 6H > 2149S (FRC) > etc." Yup ! You can also do variations such as 2148S, 2147S, 21478S, 214789S if you manage to do it well. I suck at it and find the first option way easier. Timing is a personal issue, whatever suits you the best. As for the timing of the second forward motion, it is not that fast. The delay is pretty unnatural at first specially at level 1 but by just practicing 2366 at level 2 or 3, you'll get it down. By the way, a little mistake in my previous post. While I do a MSJH as followed : 236[P] 214D Doing a MSDJH is so fast that I do a scrubby but easier : 236[P] 63214D Besides, there was an Arcadia article translated by POscrub (thx again man !) about JcK combo that explained a little trick to earn 1 frame of startup by going into neutral position before pressing the D button (meaning 236[K] 2145D) or 2 frames for Mist Finer specials. See the second page of the "Johnny AC Gameplay specifics" topic for further details.

TK Killer Joker TK KJ from neutral, I input it 2149S so that JO jumps forward. Nevertheless, in the combo you described, I add a 6H right after the dash. That JC-able move helps getting the TK KJ right. The rest of this post will only talk about the combo including 6H. First, be sure you are not pushed too far away so that the air KJ connects. I begin with (out of throw range) K, c.S and not K, HS, though depending on your spacing and opponent's character this latter also works. For the TK part, you can either tap up first then input the air KJ motion or input in by adding a jump direction at the end : 2147S or preferably 2149S to jump forward and close a little the distance, making the KJ more likely to connect. I find the first possibility easier but since timing is involved in any case, it is all personal preference. Opponent against the right wall, out of throw range : K, c.S, MF-K(2), dash, 6H, 9 (going forward), 214S FRC, more or less delay, j.HS, j.D, land, jump etc. Depending on the character, you'll have to wait more or less after the FRC point so that landing then jump and air combo is possible, the first air hit after landing connects. As for the TK special, you tap 9 then perform the 214 motion without having to wait for Johnny to jump cancel, like you'll do for a Jump Install. Nonetheless you have to time your the input well (I do it slower than usual to match the appropriate timing) so that just a fraction of time after JC you press the S button. It is almost as if both are simultaneous. If you understand the concept now, no secret technique, some time training mode and you'll get it. Mist Stanced Dash JackHound (MSDJH) Yes, the normal input is as you wrote it : K, H, 236[K], 66214D However, you can buffer the 6 direction in the 236[K] to act as the first 6 in the dash motion. Meaning you'll only have to tap 6 again once thus saving extra time and input. Before doing it in combo, just try from neutral. Level 1 is the hardest to time while level 3 is the easiest. So put yourself in training mode at lv2 or 3 as a start then if you success consistently go down a level. 236[K] 6 You'll have to tap the second forward direction (bolded above, the one triggering the dash) in a specific timing to get the MS Dash. The lower the level the longer you'll have to wait before pressing this direction while still holding the Mist Stance of course. The higher the level the more lenient it becomes making possible to press the 6 (bolded one) earlier. Afterward, input the JcK during the MS Dash as usual, immediately after tapping the second forward direction 236[K] 6214D During combos nevertheless it is trickier since you cancel the K, HS into the Mist Finer Stance by the buffering the 236[K]. That messes with the timing learned just above. A solution is to cancel the HS into MS as late as possible. Indeed, that ain't easy and may be not practical but it has good potential.

Really nice, good job ! It will indeed help newcomers getting into Guilty Gear. Some little additions about Impossible Dust. Double Jump and moves bringing to the ground aren't the only common ways. It is possible to perform ID using : - homing Jump immediately followed by FD Same as double jump, gravity makes you land faster. For instance : With JO, 5D, homing jump immediatley FD then j.D. With PO, 5D, jump FD, j.HS - IAD then a hit Chipp doing it with 5D, IAD, j.K Johnny and Testament with 5D, IAD, j.D Only 100% sure for JO, the others were performed by my opponents so maybe it is incorrect. There are also gimmicky ones such as performing a TK move or a specific combo (j.S > YZS for Baiken) but they are character specific.

Just my 2 cents, don't know for Venom's normal, but Johnny's 5K beats Rock It very easily during its active frame and HOS users amongst friends also agree to say it has little "priority" since they say it gets stuffed by many normals. I used to be poked to death with it until I noticed this simple standard kick works like a charm. EDIT : just tried and with some timing, VE's 5P and 5K beats it, though it is harder than for JO.

Fenrir > Nope, the "ground KJ" (the KJ follow-up of the Killer Joker Transport) does not auto-JI in the console version, whether it is the Japanese or the American one. However, if you play on the arcade cabinet, it is auto-JIed. If you wonder, the KJT itself (just the leaping move without hitting) does not have auto-JI properties though, even on arcade.

Atryu, you're busted, Hiriji wannabe ! Haha, sorry for that ! I was working therefore did not really have the time to proof-read and wrote some stuff in a hurry. Secret technique of the hidden Dustloop also known as Instant Block the boss as he enters your room : Alt + Tab, careful with it as it has a 1-frame window input. I meant something like : "Even if you are a good player, in a forum one has to be humble. Specially since you asked a question." One should not drink at work. Sorry for the little off-topic folks.

ThatOneGuy, you may be true, although your question was if it was Jam specific or not (not asking how to perform it), but a little humility specially when asking questions, even if you are a good player are welcome, no offense meant. If something you want was not understood nor answered, don't hesitate to ask again nicely and clear the misunderstanding. Just my 2 cents, I'm just a random non-Jam player passing by. As far as I remember, Burst Canceling consists in 3 steps to perform very quickly one after another, in the order : 1) Successful parry 2) Burst 3) FD (Cancel the Burst right at the beginning of its startup by a Faultless Defense, the timing may be real fast almost simultaneously) You'll then gain the full invincibility time of the Burst without actually using it ! Again, it is what I understood as a non-Jam player and never really tried myself if you wonder hence that may be wrong. Someone may explain it better but that should help you in the meantime.

Guardian > I agree and also sometimes (depending on the spacing) use DB combo against heavies after a MF-S(2) but use c.S (JI) instead of 5K (JI). I find it more convenient since I find the hitting box looks wider vertically and also extends more backwards but that can be only a biased feeling. Using DB combos here seems to deal more damage to them and I find it cool-looking, for old time sake too. There is also good 1-hit potential out of it. As far as I remember, it also works on some mid and maybe some light weight but the normal aircombo following a MF-S(2) is easier and deals same or often more damage, specially if you add an air KJ FRC. Against PO, you can delay your timing (more lenient), do the dj.SDH Ens finisher and so on thanks to his huge sprite. He is the easiest to use it on IMO ! Newjack > Thanks ! I barely use DB to knock down during air combo and may work on it.

Have some Wave Dash, Johnny comrade, you'll finish on the podium ! On a more serious note, WD really helps make JO less "stiff" on the ground. EtherFang, no offense meant, could you please avoid quoting a whole message, specially if it does not serve a specific purpose and/or is a long one. If quotation is needed, just keep the only few sentences you think relevant to your answer. Hey, a new JO Combo Movie ? Let's "Fulaaaiii Aweeeiii !". Posted not long ago by Hideki, kudos go to him. Comments and technical stuff shown in CM and matches are more than welcome, specially since I can't watch videos. Thanks in advance mates.

Few general hints against I-No, not Jam specific. First, the green note is not a low. Even if its sprite touches you at the feet, it can be guarded high. Kinda like Venom's D ball in a D-formation when hit with his 2K for instance, it seems to be a low since it "rolls" on the floor, but is not. Knowing this will help you guarding accordingly since there is no mix-up with it. Otherwise, I-No and Venom would have unblockable setups thanks to this. Against her dash pressure strings, FD it to gain extra space and to narrow her options. That should be easier. Pushed back, she will often have to dash again. That is the moment you'll want to take the advantage, the opening.

Yep, nothing will earn you more experience than playing against good human players. On a side note, combo execution isn't as crucial as before since the KJ FRC made most of AC Johnny's combo a lot easier IMO, making it just a combo with one or two JC and including a FRC. Though it still is important, using the appropriate combo against a specific character (or else it will whiff, and such opportunities aren't many in a round). The actual issues are landing a hit leading to combo, build a good defense, zoning game, closing the gap, not being too mechanical and predicatble etc and that is hard to learn with training mode only, as you already know. Maybe you should check the Match Finder sub-forum (click here) see if there are people living near your location and look at the next and nearest tourney in the Event Annoucements sub-forum (here). Anyway, welcome to Dustloop and in particular to the wonderful elite circle of the finest gentlemen playing Johnny.

Nice ! That should keep Buri at disavantage, allowing some oki. Even if 6P prorates at 80%, most of the time, I'd go for : - a coin if at level 1 - damage, full aircombo involving KJ FRC or not since BR is a light and have bad defense - IAD j.KSDE 1-hit Knowing this knockdown combo out of 6P is a nice addition if you plan someting for his wake-up. I'd use 3H or a far and safe poke so that should he do a reversal Starship, he will miss and get stuffed by the 3H. It may be possible that all the knockdown throw combos listed > here in the AC Johnny : Gameplay Specifics topic < are the same whether they come from a throw or a 6P (and maybe also a 6K ?). To be tested.

BV > That is a nice broken Tensionless set-up 1-hit loop. Johnny is top tier now ! Kayin > You can add a hit between the coin and the MSJH, adding a some damage and a little height, thus earning some few frames of advantage. That can make a difference against some characters since the 214P is so slow, even with the FRC, allowing them to escape or counter you if you don't. Thanks to MSJH, even the light weight should not be able to tech despite the extra height gained by the hit before connecting the JcK. For instance, near corner : MF-K(2), coin, dash, HS, MSJH, 214P (FRC or not, depending on the opponent) You can use HS or f.S and the timing may be hard on some chars. On another hand, damage from a corner MF-K(2) can be really good. Both are good options IMO. Following with a dash 6H at least. Could you describe the combo you feel scales too much and on which character ? If it involves another coin and a level 2 MF(K or P), that is normal. Otherwise, those are nice damagewise if you are not going for the mist (near or in corner) : MF-K(2), dash, 6H, coin, airthrow Not damage, but nice reset, works from time to time. Careful since with extra lag time on 214P and depending on the height and opponent character, you'll be stuffed/, even with 214P FRC MF-K(2), dash, 6H, MSJH, c.S, aircombo KJ FRC during the aircombo is useless because of the scaling and won't add that much damage, except if you get a 1-hit out of hit or have build up the opponent's guard gauge. MF-K(2), dash, 6H, c.S (JI), HS, DBT~DB FRC aircombo (JC or not) possibly leading to 1-hit. Gotta love DB combo ^_^ There was also some discussions in another JO topic here about : corner MF-K(2), dash, 6H, TK KJ FRC, j.H, j.D, land, aircombo. It is pretty nice but the 6H should connect close enough allowing the TK KJ to hit. TKing with 9 helps closing the distance. Haven't tried yet if and on who j.H, j.D, land, 6H connects (remember, remember !), that could be real good. Tech trap may possible with j.H, j.D, (6H if possible), coin.

EtherFang, if you are a "real" beginner, you shouldn't worry about FRC first IMO. Even Mist Cancel, that is vital to Johnny gameplay can wait a little you that get a good hang of the game, its physics and whatsoever (gatling, throwing, airthrow, basic combos). Then, when you feel confident, know what which move does (not confusing the different height of Mist Finer, knowing what are the normals etc.), then you can learn MC, FRC and more advanced combos. No secret, you'll have to practice, hours of training to get a feeling of him, be consistent on his FRC, don't drop your combos (those two are easy to practice in training mode, though keep in mind succeeding in training mode doesn't guarantee ythat ou will against a human player but it helps a lot), defense and attack options (JO specific or not), feint/mindgame, capitalize on a CH. Don't worry about frames at first too, you may need it, but that time will come later. Few hours in a regular basis, 1 every two days for instance, looks fine. That is one fastidious part a beginner can't escape. Maybe you should aim to a few points (2-3 ?) during a training session, for instance 20 minutes of FRC (only one at a times at first so that you learn it, try 10 times and if you don't succeed at least 8, do that again), then go to 20 minutes of MC some specific pokes, then 20 of a few combos. Eventually, right after the training mode, go play against the CPU and try to practice what you just learned for some matches. Watching video matches can help, specially if you don't have anyone to play against. You'll soon notice the major difference between the CPU and actual (and decent) players. In order to improve, you do have to meet other players and fight each others, but in the meantime, training and playing against the CPU are your only ways. Playing the CPU can be effective to practice your combo on a moving character and different ones (weight, sprite, hitbox and such), but don't take strategies into account, the CPU is dumb and don't block some hits while mindgame stuff (mix-up, cross-up etc) is pretty useless againt it. It is better than nothing if you begin, just don't assume every players play the same as the comp, think of it as a moving dummy and not an actual opponent knowing how to play Guilty Gear otherwise you'll get it wrong and learn bad habits. Anyway, don't lose confidence, stay motivated. I know people who dropped because they lost to someone and said "What the hell, I've been training but I still lost !" Your presence here shows you do are motivated, that's the way to go. Just my two cents.

Couldn't wait till Saturday ! MS Dash performed with 236[P]6 is viable for every level from neutral position (not after a gatling). For lv1, there should be a delay between the first and the second "forward" direction. There is a specific timing to it. As level goes up, this delay is shortened, you can input the second '6' earlier. Basically it means your execution window gets bigger making the timing easier, less strict. At lv3, it is a real breeze. But... if it is canceled from a gatling, since the MS is buffered, it messes up with the timing and end up being harder or maybe impossible to perform (depending on the level and your buffering timing). Now, as for its usage, I sometimes perform MSDJH to get some extra distance where MSJH would have stopped right in front of the opponent without hitting. For instance for getting through projectiles or if a Testament plants a tree or sends an S EXE Beast (the one that comes from behind) while being out of MSJH range, thinking he is safe, and that you are fast enough, it helps closing the distance AND actually land a hit (or CH) into combo. But if you don't, you get tree bumped into hell combo, so that is risky indeed. Anyway, EtherFang, you shouldn't spend too much time learning how to MSDJH if you are new to GGAC. It can be a great tool yet is not one of Johnny's most important, there are many others to learn first IMHO. Against good players, catching them off guard (as they are not doing anything special) with any Jackhound tends to rarely work. JcK is not as fast as it seems because of its startup. This latter is "kinda" slow from neutral stance (both your opponent and you being in neutral), whichever of the three JcK types. That's why I mainly use it in a combo or if I spot (or predict) a hole, a move that can be CHed with this FB move. When I have Tension to spent, I still do the JcK RC (front or back) every now and then for some quick finish/mindgame a la Slash (chipping or landing a hit, opp. confused on where to block), but that is more flashy than anything since it is way too much expensive for low reward IMO. Surely a bad Slash habit I need to put away.

Thanks, that's good news ! I messed with it some time ago but totally forgot until seeing MSDJH being talked about. At level 1, it looks weird indeed. Should 236[P]66 be the only way to have a lv1 MSDJH, it would have been logical since getting into MS on lv 1 takes 9 frames while lv2 and 3 are 6f and 4f respectively. The time elapsed between the two forward directions in the 236[P]6 motion (input as fast as possible) might have been greater than the buffer window hence the need of another forward to complete the MS dash motion (bolded part on the above inputs). But 6236[P]6, now that is is odd. Which are the actual '6' making the MS dash ? Maybe the dash is buffered a few frames before the MS then activated again thanks to the third forward direction ? Note that buffering the JcK motion (214D) during the startup of MS is not possible. Or at least I don't manage to succeed. It seems during MS startup, no buffer is possible (try a lv1 MSJH done as quick as possible, it won't come out), BUT that the '6' before the [P] is accounted for since it is supposed to be pressed a the same time/a little earlier than the "beginning" of the MS startup. Awww, this lv1 thingie is too confusing ! I'll give it a look as soon as I can too, at worst (and likely) Saturday. Btw, out of curiosity, anyone knows how long is the buffer window ?

Wasn't the auto-JIed part only the KJ after a KJT, and not the KJT itself ? There maybe some confusion here. Yes Kadius, JI during gatling with : - K, [8], HS, KJT - c.S, [8], HS, KJT or even - 6H, [8], KJT is as easy as previous installment, but from a solo KJT (so also KJT > KJ), you have to input 427S, 42147S or similar motions with a proper timing (not getting a TK KJ or a super jump for instance), which is harder yet doable. I use the 427S one but my timing results in a SJI (only AD is possible after the FRC) and not a JI (JC or AD possible). Oki on #R and Slash : JI DBT > DB mix-up/feint anyone ? I think it is what Kayin is referring to, solo-JI the KJT > KJ out of a gatling chain. That also make JI on a HS, KJT > KJ > aircombo including a JC impossible while it is on the arcade version, and without particular input. Just an exemple, landing a 5H (not JCable) can normally lead to damaging coinless KJ aircombo thanks to that. Of course, you can also try a 5H > KJT > KJ > land > c.S > aircombo on some chars or even the 5H > MS~JcK then whatever you want, including a JI gatling to KJT > KJ (25% more Tension though), but not having the auto-JI puts some possibilities away. You could have also tried KJT > KJ (auto-JI) FRC > jump to bait a DAA/Starship attempt or stuff like that. Note that I don't use it that much, but just for the sake of being closest to the arcade version as possible, this missing feature has to be pinpointed. That is too bad ... but far from being dramatical. No need for a mourning/ranting time, specially since we can't do anything about that anymore and are accustomed to the japanese console version where it already was missing. Now, we just go on and continue kicking ass with Johnny. Waraboushi, as a no-damage 1-hit, there is the 5D IAD j.D Ens too (midscreen). Spacing is important here since if you are too close, the ad.D will send the opponent backwards. You have to hit with the Dust from far enough, almost max range. If you don't perform the Ensenga, you can aircombo out of this Impossible Dust. Damaging enough and tensionless 1-hit dust combo I always use that works on many chars (specially well with light and medium weight, don't remember on heavy), anywhere on the screen : 5D, [9], D, D, -9-, j.KPKPSD Ens (the one I use the most, specially midscreen but works on corner too) 5D, [9], D, D, -9-, j.KPKPKSD Ens (works better with opp. against the corner, less or no delay needed on the j.D > Ens) No JC during this dust combo. A lot easier if the opponent touches the corner during it, but doable midscreen nonetheless. Can't make an exhaustive list of who it works against right now since I don't have access to the game. The timing is tricky since it varies, depending on your opponent, your timing inputting the jump hits during the air combo (I have a special "rhythm" for this one) and the distance with the corner but it often works for me. You have to "feel" it, adapting by inputting a a j.P or a j.K as a combo filler to get the appropriate height, delaying more or less. Sounds weird, but that is one of the way I manage to get 1-hit, adapting on the spot. EDIT : On a side note about MSDJH, if you cancel it from a 6H and your execution is fast enough, you can just do : 6H, 236[P], 214D The two bolded '6' (forward) resulting in the MS dash. I noticed from starting position (reset in training mode), sometimes this input got me close enough to land a 5K after the JcK, sometimes too far away making it whiff. Maybe a wrong conclusion, but that looks like a MSJH and a MSDJH respectively. Hence, as the '6' direction during the 236P motion seems to be active in getting the MS dash, it may be viable to perform : 236[P], 6214D saving one "forward" direction at the beginning thus saving time and making it easier. "May be" because I can't check it right now. Can anybody test and confirm it ?

3H was talked about a little here (scroll to the bottom) : > AC: Offensive/Defensive Guide < Yes, it builds the guard gauge, but is also very useful for locking (forcing him to block) the opponent, is active for a long time, against reversal DPs (you get a nice CH > huge combo of death) and is Burst safe. There is a certain distance though, you can't do it from anywhere, specially not too close (VV has a good horizontal range). For all those reasons, I use it for instance after a 1-hit > 214P, before landing a MF(2) if I have the time to (214P FRCed for instance, or some 1-hit setups allow it without FRC if the opp doesn't have a DP). Those two topics may seem a tidbit redundant, but the one linked above should be an in-depth subject, while this current one should give pointers, not all the details. Hence both are good IMO. EDIT : Thanks Wirya for the tip, I rarely faught good Faust (or plainly Faust players) so your piece of advice should be useful next time I face one.

MSF ? You mean Mist Finer low (also noted MFL, 236S, S-MF, MF-S and maybe others) ? Can't watch Youtube videos right now butwill take a wild guess. As you described it, it seems that : 1. is a MF-K(2), meaning level 2 mid Mist Finer, input is 236K. This "ground slide" effect is level 2 mid MF only. You won't have it on a level 1 or a level 3. 2. is a MF-S(2), meaning level 2 low Mist Finer, input is 236S. The "vacuum" effect (the opponent being launched towards you) is level 2 specific. Lv 1 causes knockdown. Lv 3 causes multiple low-hits. The only multi hits Mist Finers are the level 3. When you perform a MF, no matter if it lands, whiffs or is blocked, your level goes back to 1. Hence, if you do MF-K(2), coin, MF, this last will be a lv2, since after the first MF-K(2), level goes back to 1 but since the coin hit, it increases to 2 again. Again, be sure to check this link : http://dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html This frame data shows all of JO's moves, including frame stuff (may be too complicated at first) but also lists the property of each one. 4r5 just wrote an interesting Quick AC Johnny Newb Guide, have a look there. Don't overlook the other stickies too !

Nice guide for the newcomers. If I may, on TK Ensenga, it maybe good to remind the input of the move has to begin on the ground. It may be obvious, especially if one reads the linked Guilty Notations Guide, but that would avoid any confusion, should it arise. Maybe a little video clip of it should be a nice addition here. Same thing for the throw description, "inexpensive" may not be understood : "Whaaaat, I shouldn't use money, so not the coins ???". "Tensionless" may be less ambiguous. Also, a quick reminder of what a reversal is, in the OD description, would help new blood understand more easily this concept. For instance adding in brackets "when you are grounded, as soon as you wake up, perform the move, giving you a little bit of invincibility". Not exhaustive (no frame talk), but it helps give the idea or remind of the Notations Guide. Perhaps putting the links to general knowledge (the "Make sure you read" part) first, on top of the guide. Having normals and specials afterwards may be more logical, beginning right of the bat with MC may not be "newb" friendly. Again, nice job, let's hope the JO community grows bigger. Btw, also seen on the " Johnny forum complaints/questions/suggestions" topic : No way, he shaved his "beard" and traded it with bakery ! Is he trying to find some new RedBread and Butter combos ? Go, RB&B for the win and the rhythm. J/K