Mitsurugi

Really big thanks LM_Akira ! Awwww, too much "secondary" stuff for me, such as EX chars and GG Mode. I was hoping it would be a kind of summary of all the Arcadia issues and even better, with in-depth match-ups, when to SB wisely and such. Well, I still may buy it but more as a collector item than a "training book". Even if I don't understand a single word !

DumJum, you need to dash jump in order to succeed. You immediately cancel the dash by a jump (as soon as possible, you shouldn't event see JO hopping forward) that still retains the dash momentum, hence making 1-hit possible.

Sweet, thanks guys ! I miss good old sunset Colony and eye-bursting Nirvana (both GGX), but having #R stages is a nice surprise. LM_Akira, this book looks good ! May I ask you some questions ? Could you describe what is the content of this Complete Guide please, I may buy one too. Is it only technical stuff or are there also some artworks, for instance. I'm more interested on the Johnny part, if you could just say what are the kind of information it consists in (the table of contents should do the trick) and also the number of pages dedicated to him, that would be great. What differences are there between this Complete Guide and the mook ? And can a non-japanese reader understand most of it, thanks to images and icons ? Thanks !

BurningVigor, Millia isn't the only character you can't coin after a throw, A.B.A, Baiken and Dizzy fit in this category too. As a quick reminder, some useful stuff can be found here > AC Johnny gameplay specifics < EDIT : thanks to both 4r5 and you for hosting JO matches and CM vids !

Kayin > For an all-around post-MF-S(2) combo, using a KJ FRC helps a lot. It doesn't knockdown or deal the most damage, but it really makes spacing (initial MF distance, height during aircombo) less problematic, whether you use c.S or not : MF-S(2), [c.S], j.KS, dj.K, KJ FRC, falling dj.S, tj.KSDE With proper timing and spacing though, it can net you a nice 1-hit. In doubt, when I don't know the mid or lightweight character-specific combo, I tend to go for this one.

Camo > Those are two different ways of Jump Canceling in this 6H > KJ combo, not Jump Installing. In fact, it is Tiger Kneeing / doing Instant KJ from a JCable normal. Ba_Roto > Just try a stick. Even if you don't manage to play correctly the first time, at least you'll know if you like this feeling or not. I had to use the pad for some time before buying an arcade stick, even though I knew from the beginning I'm a stick user (used to play on arcade cabinet and on Neo Geo). If you get one, don't get desperate at the beginning as you may whiff many of your moves. The learning curve can range from few weeks to few several months in order to get accustomed to arcade stick. My humble opinion would be to use an arcade stick, not only for the arcade sake, (easier) ability to press several buttons at the same time and many others, but also, and mainly because I like playing on it. Honestly, that is just personal feeling, do as you wish, as long as you feel comfortable. Some people play on pad and still have a really good level. Hell, if you want and manage to play GG at a good level with a guitar hero controller coupled with a DDR device, do it and screw the others, whatever they think. EDIT : as for Johnny specifically, well... except that you can't use the FRC button to get the FRC on DBT (it can only be PKH) and maybe for Wave Dashing / recover faster from stagger state, playing pad or stick is no different question than for other chars IMO. Except Eddie, since he attacks with little Eddie by releasing buttons, making it harder for pad users.

Camo, I think JOFan means he wants to continue the combo (the opponent doesn't touch the ground and is juggled), not letting him fall and putting a 214P. I haven't tested myself, but maybe you have to put some fast ground hit(s) before, such as K, c.S, or 2P > c.S, before landing the level 2 Mist Finer mid (or also upper). Once again, it also depends on the character (weight, hitbox, specific stuff) and the height you land the 1-hit. For instance, if you do a 1-hit really high after a "triple jump" (kinda like MF-S(2), j.KS, dj.SH KJ FRC, falling dj.S, tj.KSDE), the opponent may be able to tech after the 1-hit. Near the ground, but tech nonetheless. I think it happened against light-weight Baiken, can't be sure of whom I was practising against. Besides, if you use RC to get the 1-hit, your opponent may not be as high above you as a normal 1-hit, meaning he will touch the ground earlier and you won't reach the floor before him.

Well, it also depends on the distance from where you land the MF-S(2). But most of the time (for instance after a K, HS, MF-S(2)), as already stated, you should use c.S into aircombo on the heavyweights (PO, RO, JO and OS). ABA is trickier to combo IMO, but c.S is still viable, though you'll have to time it better. You may want to walk a little forward or backward (depending on the distance) before connecting the c.S On heavies, you can do : K, HS, MF-S(2), c.S, j.KPS, dj.KPSDE I did that on PO few days ago and manage to get a 1-hit out of it. Midweight chars can be hit by a c.S before aircombo or plain jump aircombo but then again, it depends on your spacing and of the opponent's character. Sometimes it is good, some other times it is best to immediately jump. If you land it too close, it would be preferable to jump, the MF putting him too far from you. Else, you'll be at the good range for the opp. to "fall" right over you, making the c.S okay. As for the aircombo part (with a c.S or straight after the Mist Finer), it also varies depending on the initial distance and your timing inputting the hits. Once you may be able to land j.KS, dj.SHDE, the other time, the j.D may whiff. If you can't train, IMHO, just stick to j.KS, dj.KSDE against light and mid weights, it is the most common and easy aircombo, adding j.P on the heavy ones or on reaction according to the opponent height. It works on most of the cast if not all provided you added the j.P. You can add KJ FRC, but that will be the next step, since your main concern was the starter move. Before getting a complete list for each character, that should be fine enough, not landing the most damage or not getting a 1-hit, but at least a combo. Too bad you can't train, that would really help. Let's hope you'll gain regular access to GGAC soon.

In order to FRC the DBT or KJT (Teleport, meaning the leap moves, not the hitting ones), you must press PKH, and not PKS. This latter results in the follow-up, no matter how good your timing is. That may be the reason why you can't FRC, you may be pushing the wrong FRC buttons. If that is not the case, as usual, training mode is a very good way to spot the FRC point. Be sure to have the "display" option on "input" or "both". There will be a wide line at the bottom of the screen showing your input commands, and if you do a FRC move, it will flash blue to show the exact frames. The FRC point do is the flash, not the blue "trailing", leaning if you press the PKH buttons when you see the blue, it is already too late. Have fun practicing. Ha, GG mode is hilarious, with the combos into IK, the arrows DDR thingy as a last chance to get out of it etc. Though IMO, only a few minutes, just to fool around when we are tired of a full nightlong casual play. EDIT : On a side note, I really hope the US version of GGAC will fix the "Bacchus Sigh" bug, where an opponent with a fog on him can still block a Mist Finer... It does not happen that frequently but yet is not that scarce. Any news on that, for instance in the Wii version for those who have it (and played a long time on this system) ? The problem is that we don't know how to trigger it (that would be the good side of it, or else the opponent may take advantage of it), so doing rigorous testing may be hard.

A1 : This smoke, named Bacchus Sigh makes the next Johnny's Mist Finer on hit (or "on block", meaning not whiffed) unblocable. It then disappears. Or else, it goes out after a certain time if no Mist Finer connects. Mist Finer is the move where he unsheathes his sword very quickly either upward, in front or downward. A2 : Well, since you are already here, why not have a look at the "GGAC Video Posting thread", here : http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2281&page=28 Do not post there only to comment, those kind of messages go in the "GGAC Discussion Thread" : http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2282&page=103 Both are in the "Dustloop Forums > Guilty Center" sub-forum. Enjoy !

Ba_Roto, Johnny's hidden move, or Free Mist Stanced JackHound (FMSJH) is done like this : 236[P], 2146H During Mist Stance (P was used as exemple, but it could be K or S too), while stille holding the P button to stay in this stance, input fast enough the command 2146H. There may be a certain timing, either you doing it too fast or too early. It is the same as the MSJH, except is doesn't cost 25% Tension. If it is for casual play and your opponent is okay, feel free to use it. But it is forbidden in certain tourneys and is not arcade legit (console only move), hence I don't use it.

Some quick poor drawings including the shape of the formation (already posted above) and the corresponding balls. With those, one can think of all the formations, be it 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 balls. It can also help if you want to know the trajectory of each ball during summons, so that you can make one hit another during ball seisei. Of course, that does not replace training mode, but it helps. Diveman, I think you misnamed the K formation as the S and oppositely too. The 'V' vertical bar is supposed to represent Venom's body. P-formation -------------- --V------H---- --V---K------- --V-P--------- --V----S------ --V--------D-- --V----------- S-formation ---------------------- ------P--------------- ---------------------- --D---V---K----------- ------V--------------- ---H--V--S------------ ------V--------------- K-formation ----------------------- ----K------------------ --V--------P----------- --V-----D-------------- --V--H----------------- --V---------S---------- --V-------------------- H-formation -------------------------- --------------D----------- -------------------------- -------------H------------ --V----------------------- --V---------S------------- --V----------------------- --V--------K-------------- --V----------------------- --V-------P--------------- D-formation --------------------P-- ----------------------- ----V------------------ ----V------------K----- ----V------------------ ----V---------S-------- ----V-----H------------ ----V-D---------------- Have fun !

Good stuff CD ! A little addition, quick note about 3H. This normal is nice to lock the opponent guarding and raise his guard meter. Also MCable. With the appropriate spacing and timing, it works like a charm against reversal DP, as the first hit will whiff (so does the opponent DP resulting him him flying helplessly) then the second wil be a CH, meaning a lot of pain. Well, it is half offense, half defense (against shoryu), maybe it doesn't fit in the basic defensive moves. Can act as an AA (or even to catch poorly done cross-ups), but I wouldn't suggest to rely on it.

Oops, my bad ! Anyway, as the real question (and not what I thought it was ) was intriguing, I also did some test and got the same conclusion : guts rating takes effect per hit. Well, since I noted it on a paper, better post it, even if you already did. With JO against JO in training mode, a 2-hit combo against crouching opponent : f.S > 6H, so that the figures are big enough hence easier to spot. Full Health (A Gut rating) = 128 f.S = 34 dmg 6H = 59 dmg Since the limit between A rating and B rating is 55-56%, just put the opp. life so that the f.S is in A and 6H in B or lesser. Basically, put it at 80 (128 * 56 / 100 = 71.68, so it is okay). Opponent life = 80 f.S = 34 dmg 6H = 56 dmg Limit between B and C : 128 * 41 / 100 = 52.48, meaning below 52, it would be a C or lesser rating. Limit between C and D : 128 * 30 / 100 = 38.4 So here the 6H hits in C, as 80 - 34 = 46, which is between 38.4 and 52.48. Too much figures... gotta play GG a little, right now.

Here it is, posted by RedBeard, thanks again mate, somewhere in "The Foundation" sub-forum and also in the Johnny forum (click here to view some good character specific stuff, such as weight, guts, airthrow range etc.) :

Nice Nattak ! Against JO : Up to the last dj.H, it does 250 dmg but as usual against him, the dj.D after whiffs. So after the dj.H, a DB instead would grant knockdown and a little less damage, but it doesn't connect against JO (or I fail to). 6HS, MSJH, 5K (JI) 5HS, KJT > KJ (Frc), j.S, dj.KSDE = 259 dmg. Against SL : It works fine and does 255 dmg. Without the last KJ FRC : 6HS, MSJH, 5K (JI) 5HS, KJT > KJ (Frc), j.S, dj.SHDE = 240 dmg. For a knockdown and saving 25% tension (without the last KJ FRC), this one looks better, specially only for 13 dmg less : 6HS, MSJH, 5K (JI) 5HS, KJT > KJ (Frc), j.S, dj.SH, DB = 227 dmg One important note, I admit I used the RC (shame !) on the KJT > KJ FRC, since I still suck at doing this one consistently during combos, *sob sob*. It may make a big difference, making the above not legit, since the FRC point is so damn late on this special. Scrub one hour, scrub forever ! j/k

Since this topic is still open for discussion, better fill it a little. For all the old-timers, DB combo lovers : Against JO, at more or less 5K range : 5H, MF-S(2), 5H, DBT~DB FRC, j.PKD, Ens or with j.PSD, Ens You can get a 1-hit out of it, even from midscreen, but it is easier to do if the opponent meets the corner during the DB combo. 213 dmg normal Ens(2) 194 dmg 1-hit version It also works against the other heavy weights (I only tested the full part on AB, JO and PO), though JO and PO (add some j.P) are the easiest IMO. Damage-wise, it also seems better than usual combos against them, for the same amount of Tension. It also has 1-hit potential, as would a B&B c.S into KJ combo. Depending or the character you face and specially your initial distance, you may have to walk a little forward or backward for the DB to connect after the 5H. It also works on middle-weight (just successfullytried on ED), but the timing is even tighter. Besides, the damage difference between standard MF-S(2) aircombos and these MF-S(2) DB combos is close to null while it was bigger for heavy chars. Hence, it is better used against heavy only. In theory, you could do more damage if you manage to get a JI DB combo. The only way to do it after a MF-S(2) would be to solo-JI a c.S before the DBT. But the timing is reaaaaally hard. See the solo-JI on 6H : 6H [8], DBT~DB FRC, Airdash The JI is input during the 6H, then canceled immediately by the DBT. This is the same mechanism as a JI from c.S [8], 5H, DBT, except the JIed normal is immediately canceled by the DBT, without the 5H gatling . Therefore, you have to input something like : 6H [8, 623S]~S, FRC, Airdash. Well, it can be applied to c.S, but since 6H is a slow move (lasts a long time) and c.S a fast one, you get the idea on how difficult it is to fit the part between brackets (JI + command of the DBT) inbetween the c.S and the cancel point of this latter where the special should be executed. One would have to be damn fast to do it. I only managed to get it a few times during training mode, let alone landing the full combo during a match. EDIT : nevermind, c.S > DBT doesn't connect anyway.

4r5 > Good to know, thanks ! That's surely what happens. Silly us, my friend and I weren't aware of that (he was just toying with Zappa, not his main). BurningVigor > Yep, that seems to be it. Since it is already in the game, let us just hope it stays sporadical and random meaning it can't be formalized, made on purpose, a la Faust's OD 236236S. Quick reminder, there used to be a specific timing always resulting in the angel popping up, which is what Faust doesn't want. Or that it can be fixed for the next version (US GGAC maybe ?).

It happened more than once to a friend of mine and me. This bug was supposedly already in previous installment but I never encountered it. It seems to be triggered more frequently in AC. We had some discussion about maybe it is a glitch performed when one IB it and such, but it also happened with normal guard. I also had my mist disappear earlier than normal, only once or twice. For instance after a 214P, some short string(s) to lock the opponent grounded and build up the gauge then the mist is gone before the MF-K(2) connects. A similar bug is with Zappa's dog, a friend of mine timed perfectly the 2D trap (unblocable), but when we thought it would hit, I guarded it and we heard the specific noise of blocked level 6 move. We weren't able to reproduce any of those on purpose.

Thanks Zenmetsu for the hints against Jam. 4r5 and DumJum, from point blank or with a small distance, you can combo after a MF-S(2). You just have to know you must hit facing your opponent and not as a cross-up hit. Meaning you may have to wait a bit before jumping, allowing JO to jump forward, facing Zappa. For instance you are 1P, meaning facing right. Try point point blank 5H > MF-S(Lv2) then jumping "backwards" (direction = 7, what was backwards during the MF, but has become forward when your recovery ends) as usual and input j.K. You'll see that you will be facing the opponent, since he "crossed" you early (thanks to you being close to him), during the MF vacuum effect. Then usual combos. This exemple is good for understanding since you are so close that don't have to wait for JO to automatically turn around. Too bad I can't make videos too as 4r5, those are really useful to understand easily one's post. Since I am not sure about what you meant by "from point blank", (with or without gatlings before ?) I just covered both, just in case. Should you land a point blank MF-S(2) without a poke or gatling before, you can do a facing j.S. But it can only combo into Ens or j.H (with no follow-up after, j.D, KJ, Ens, DB or JC > dj.S all whiff). Then again, chances to score a point blank MF-S(2) are close to null, specially since we don't want to use it that way. As for TK Ensenga and as already pinpointed, against crouching ZA, you have to do it as low to the ground as possible. Distance is also a factor. The flames of this special are quite deceiving. It gives the impression of having a huuuuge hitbox but while it still has good range, then inner part of the "circle" drawn by the flames aren't the hittable box. So if you are doing already at the lowest height, it may be because you are too close. Other than that, I don't have that much experience against ZA players myself too, all versions included (#R, / and ^).

Yep, level 3 MC strings gets easier and you have a wider window for frame trap, feints and such. I think you can link two consecutives HS with it or a 6H > MC > 5H without landing a CH as a first hit. Can't watch 4r5 video yet, maybe it is in, but on hit, "2D > MC > blah" are easier to pull of with a Lv3. Where blah can be : - DB combo (for instance 2D > MC > c.S [8] > HS > DB combo), - MS~JcK combo > blah (instead of the MC. The timing is just easier, no real gain here using Lv ) - c.S > aircombo, - K > HS > MF-P(3) combo - ... Otherwise, IMO, when one have a level 3, one should build the guard gauge thanks to improve MC then crack the defense (not recklessly, be sure it does hit, during a combo or after a 214P, also check the burst meter to bait an upcoming one) and score huge damage. Though I tend to mainly aim for Lv2. Lv1 MC frame traps more easily escaped, having a bigger gap. But even so, it still is an important tool, as you already know.

Thanks to AtTheGates, Chun_li1 and POScrub, some new food for thought and for fight, for us Johnny lovers : http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=160334&postcount=7 Be sure to also check his translation on the SBC : "Slash Back Cancel" (EDIT : it is the official term). RB, feel free to add it in your first message then to delete this post. This 1 or 2 frame delay is weird, good to know we can spare a few frames now.

JOFan, tested right now on BA and it works, the JcK should connect just after the coin hits. You may throw the coin too early (too late and it will be an OTG hit) or input the JcK a little too late. You could do a regular FB JackHound, but it will be techable and you won't be able to combo (c.S > JC > aircombo) out of it or put a 214P. Since you asked for another way to test it, you could try this less difficult version : Put the dummy recovery to back, then throw her, wait for the recovery then MF-P(3), wait a little, coin, MS~JcK It should be more or less the same distance and height than in your combo. Though I find the timing completetly different in the two combos, because of different distance and height. Therefore, I suggest you paractice doing your full combo with MC (Lv3) rather than the above, since successing in the "easy" version (IMO really easier) won't help you. The trick is time the coin, easier said than done, indeed.

I don't have solid strategy against AC PO myself, haven't play that much but the only time I fought him was really painful (Giganter > Slide Head trap; 6H > Slide Head then HF Break, 5K, 2S, Heat Knuckle, okizeme; etc), but here are some random tips, not necessarily good and maybe bad. If the Potemkin player does 6H > 236P on your wake-up and you normally block it (obviously also possible if you IB or SB it), you could also forward dash during the small gap between those two hits and begin your pressure, if not too far when blocking the 6H. If you are in range and are fast enough to hit as soon as your hop finishes, you can hit him in his Slide Head recovery. Yep, the smiley one (>_<) is right, I also use a lot of as-low-to-the-ground-as-possible-j.S while staying at j.S max range to keep him at distance and if it hits or hits him during a HammerFall, cancel it into Ensenga. Be careful though as if you are too close and he does HF, it will hit you. And keep an eye on his Tension Meter, you wouldn't want to be caught by his HPB (his aerial Overdrive) whil doing some random and poorly done j.S A change I notice (maybe an impression), it seems harder to cancel a poke by a coin against his HammerFall while remaining unharmed. The coin hit him as a normal (autoguard being removed by the poke before) BUT his HF still touches me. It surely is because HF is not used as far away anymore, its distance being shortened (and maybe got faster ?). On a side note, his HF Break is faster and has less recovery now. On his wake-up, I tend to stay out of reach of the PB and poke him without being bustered (careful as poking may extend your hitbox). As usual, MC your pokes unless you cancel it by a special move. Don't poke if he has 50% Tension, as he could do a reversal Giganter (the blue Glass) with the painful follow-up or a 6H while floating. While risky if spotted, poke > MC > dash throw seems to work pretty well if not abused, at least against the player I had some freeplay against. In the corner, Enkasu (the one I use : throw j.PPSDE(1)) then Bacchus or coin (and potentially tech throw). By the way, what is the FD bug mentioned earlier ?

Heck, against my fellow Tesu comrades in arms, their 6P never clashed with the OD, the Overdrive always connected. I should be more careful then, it may be because they mistimed it or are too close, thanks for the tip. Yeah, just checked for 2D punishing his 2H. Don't know why I said it earlier. I may have confused Testament's 2H with May's 3K which beats Johnny's 2D.