SkyKing

Something else I've been thinking about: If we end up keeping throw whiff cancels, then that could add another dimension in our mix-up game if the recovery allows for it. With 5C > 6B gatling we can actually use B+C as a sort of frame trap against DP characters if you use the gatling and they've reacted to it with DP. The extra animation might warrant a reaction if we keep them honest with threatening with 5C > 6B. Also, if they do try to jump out of the pressure to not deal with it, 5C jc chasing is entirely viable now. Just instant air dash throw if they like to jump back, and use 2C as a frame trap if they become indecisive in their defensive choice.

As much as try to take out loops, the changes they are making are sure going to be explored, and may eventually come with new loops or devastating new tactics and combos. If your getting stuffed by scrub Noel's, then play a more basic style. It's lame, but if it works then stick with it. Noel's a hard enough character to win with now, so much so that players have dropped her to stay competitive. On topic, really liking Tsubaki right now so much that I may pick her up along with Makoto. Really wanting to be efficient with the NOL girls. Question, how is the knockback on Tsubaki's new CA? Is it a standard CA, or does it give a special state like Bang's does?

I welcome these new gatlings. It gives her more threats of big damage is they guess wrong on block. Of course they could always DP out of it, but now it's not so obvious when that will be exactly.

Oh yeah. Totally forgot that j.4D was a primer breaker. Shows how much I use that move. Sounds more and more like the way I'm wanting her to play. Along with the system changes to primers on burst, we may have a chance to punish bad bursts with a j.4D start/Assault Through end CR chains for 2 primers. Can't really do it now since everyone has an eternity+ to react to j.4D.

Any word on changes to primer breakers? Possibly some that don't require 50 heat to be safe.

Carl's should be his 623[D], Brio. If it's Noel's 6C, it's probably talking about the second hit where she fires after spinning her guns.

That'd be unreal, but hilarious. Maybe all this damage is coming from the buffed j.4D. If j.4D is usable mid-combo, then she'd be even more stylish than she is now.

Noel's 3C is a hell of a punisher, especially to whiffed or baited DP attempts, and even some really high recovery normals when IB'ed. And even if it did FC now, she's lost her haida loop, so it's even more intriguing what kind of combo it was that dealt 4k+ midscreen. Just waiting on any info based on the state of the rest of her normals, but if she stays this way in the final, then I'd be content. Something better than CS1 at least.

Noel's getting abare damage sounds like her normals are something than just pokes now. Just thinking about damaging options from each normal is something that has to be considered now, counter hit or not. Now I'm looking forward to what kind of corner game she's gonna have. I swear, if she somehow gets even a semi-lockdown in the corner we won't hear the end of it.

I'm looking at it in a positive light. Considering CS1 non-haida loop mid-screen averaged at about 3.5~4k with a 5D or 3C, 4k+ in a supposedly damaged nerfed game is pretty powerful. Since we now have 6A again, the thing to look for now is the average damage Noel can deal with 5A,2A, or 2B>6A starters. If her normals buff to where I can spam 5A again, then I'll be doing so.

I can see 4k coming from a CH 5D, though exact mashing patterns kind of irk me. Hopefully, Optic Barrel can actually be used as a new link in combos more consistently. That would give us another move to tack on damage, and could make for some midscreen mix-ups and somewhat of a zoning game against those not named Tager. Please give us CS1 loketest Optic Barrels.

If that's mashing, what'll her actually combos end up doing? 6k+, oki, and meter?

Well then, looks like my idea is out the window. Good thing, too. Let's hope ASW doesn't mess this up and actually have an identity with her. 4k+ sounds like a good place to start. Wondering now just on her normals in general. Slight buffs, sure, but moreso on specifics.

So is Ragna's 6A going to have any change in hitstun on counter hit then? It'd seem odd to have just a stand alone move without any bonuses for guessing correctly on a jump-in or air dash attack. Although I guess they would want to have Inferno Divider as the main anti-air then.

Going for damage is pretty much not gonna be her MO. I think moreso conditioning and reaction is how she's going to end up being played now. God, I'm really hoping not to have to play her like a SF character.

Wow, WTF about Noel huh? So she's gonna play pretty much like CS1 minus the Haida Loop, with still no real BnBs midscreen without 5D guessing and counter hits. Although I am glad to see Tsubaki somewhat viable now. And Tager for high? Pretty cool.

I'm liking these changes more and more. Air blocking the way it was in previous versions allowed the defender to always have a slight advantage to whatever way throw just because it pretty much a "get out of jail free" option. With this change, I feel that you now have to think before you jump. Fighting games in general held jumping as a risky situation, so I'm glad that it's going in that direction. I, personally, quietly rage when I play Noel against any Arakune just because jumping is so good for him. Also, just waiting on dat Noel info. Gimme something like 5C -> 3C natural combo, and I'll be good. Also, I don't mind give everyone move property nerfs since the system in general is already a buff to some of the cast.

Noel Vermillion

They probably don't want everyone who can gatling into 3C or an equivalent to do those long combos. Their sweeps were basically THE launcher of choice, and gave them braindead follow-ups since it was so easy to hit confirm. Seems like they are turning this more and more into GG. If they really wanted to, then they would just reduce tech time on any OTG options. That would totally deny a lot of characters' BnBs.

Wait, Noel's a rushdown character in CS? First time I've heard of that. X3 I don't mind 5C not moving forward, so long as it can still be JC'd and is still fast. Her changes so far are kinda good, but I still want to know how she's going to "flow." Really wish that she can go back to being a true rushdown character, and not the reaction-based one from CS1.

Here are mine. Nothing flashy, just changed the parts to Sanwas for the SE sticks. The TTGL Girls stick stopped working on me during a tournament, so kinda bummed about that one.

I'd like to see: Noel's old 6A hitbox Tager with a fast, far-reaching normal. Potemkin had this, why shouldn't Tager. Rachel's old 6B counter hit stun. Tsubaki with Order-Sol's charge cancels. Other than that, yeah Tsubaki's pretty much the cream of the crap. Everyone else has something going for them that let them play in a strategic way, but Tsubaki's got that charge that Scream's out "Use me as bait!" and no game to back it up.

I try not to use j.2C as a gimmick until near the very end of the match when you do have meter and your opponent had to burst to avoid losing. It ground bounces on counter hit, so any combo she hits will lead to very big damage, and that sets up points to bait bursts. If it is blocked, the ambiguity of the move allows you to relatively safe options off after canceling into a Stein. I really like air Steins to air dashes, and you can mix them up by either going into or out of the direction you place it. I'd just say to watch out for specific dp's that hit more above than across. Also, if you do attempt j.2C really low the Steins may not come out or you'll have a harder time canceling into them. EDIT: Can't cancel into Steins after block j.2C. Even so, I think that if it decides the match, it would be worth it to go for the ambiguity factor. If it doesn't work, you can always RC into several options, like Steins sets, dp, or even gold bursting if you feel gutsy.

She's got that 5A whiff on crouching that can be used intentionally to green throw during block strings. Seen Kaqn do this several times with Ragna, so Makoto should have an even easier time doing this. Just watch out for this.

I find that 3C is a pretty bad habit, and learning to space it is important so characters with range don't think it's so free. If blocked I end up doing 5D -> JC -> j.4D -> air backdash -> j.2D to cover my tracks. Then, on landing you can detonate, laser, or 5C depending on if they chase you or not. I tend to play Mu-12 as a mid-ranger, set Steins when given room and using 5C and j.C to play footsies. As soon as I land a combo, I go back to that sweet spot so they don't have a chance to retaliate. My 2 cents there.