shinquickman

1. I don't think 5H's the best answer. I find it too spontaneous. Sometimes I CH the j.D, sometimes we trade, sometimes Chipp's j.D gets a CH, sometimes we clash... I wouldn't risk a match on that. HSVD beats it clean, but oftentimes, a Chipp player isn't gonna let you sit down and charge so easily. A safer solution when you're on the ground is to IB, or even simply block the j.D, and grab during the landing lag. Even safer, DON'T STAY ON THE GROUND. CH j.D leads to a 35-50% combo on May, which then leads to you getting cornered and getting set up for another potential 20-50% combo, and there are 0 ground moves that May has which can take care of this reliably. Jumping back and j.H has a 50-50 against Chipp's j.D if they're close, but j.H has more reach and active time over Chipp's j.D, and the trade off is much more in May's favor. NamelessCounter talked about this but I just wanted to elaborate further. 2. Be weary of Chipp's 1-hit j.H jump-ins. They're safer, even against IB. 3. If you wanna be a jerk you can airgrab those command grabs :p The 2 most reliable punishes I found are: Wake-up 5K>c.S>loop. To get a charge move after this sequence use the standing charge buffer trick (Kyle, you know what I'm talking about! ::looks at user title::" Only works if Chipp is kinda close. HDFB, dash, c.S>5H>loop.

He's got Succubus... and potatoes.

Yeah, I posted that, and I still did 6H on wakeup! lol. Something that really bugs me about ABA though is how slow she wakes up. I had the problem of starting Oki too early and getting grabbed for it. Still, GGs to Josh and his lesson on Funcology!

^Birdo comes to mind

For any ABA players out there, you can use your 5K to avoid slide head as well. ...wait. Isn't this a May thread?

You and me are the only ones it seems so far.

::shrug:: eh, random happenstance maybe?

Hey Elven, if you ever see a girl named Veronica who came from Miami for the JET program, tell her Jorgy-kun says "Hi, Bero".

All toasters toast toast?

^Guttah trash tier. Couldn't launch worth a crap.

Maybe we'll get that epic Sean vs. Dan fight we've all been waiting for finally.

^I believe this rumor was made before GG2.

Play more GG bum.

This is the only one I'm gonna do, ever.

There's a chance I can come to SER and Seasons Beatings, but I can't be too sure yet. That'd be awesome, though. All the best Mays in the US on one team!

If HOS does 5H near an opponent, he's actually considered to be behind for a couple of frames.

If the opponent is not light and you don't got tension, then an ID combo is best, or even a dust fake combo might be good. If opponent is dizzied and you got 25% tension: VS Ky, Robo, Po, Anji, Test*, Eddie*: *(extremely time/space specific) -6H (Full charge)>SVD, FRC, j.h, land 6H(slight charge)> loop. 80% damage for 25%. Vs everyone (except Jam and Baiken AFAIK, difficult on Sol, HOS, Ky, and Robo): -6H (full charge)>SVD, FRC, j.H ([2] after hit), land SVD, loop. Still looking for a good way to punish ABA after 3 KDs. 6H tends to miss if you're too close, so if you do it further, you can't follow up! I usually go for 2H>2D>SVD FRC, j.H, land to loop, but there should be stronger stuff out there. Oh, BTW, 6P combos prorate 90% O_o

IMO Chipp is the only one that's waaay out there. Everything else seems in place, though I can imagine Jam going down to B, and Venom going down to C.

^Mechanics sure can be pricy these days.

^It involved the 5H>2D>Fuujin loop, and high guard bar. It's humanly possible, but not something you'll see so often.

I've seen Anji's do so, but very rarely. Ky's 45% combos often involve starters that have no mixup potential (c.S, 5H), or are starters that are not the least bit wake up burst/dp safe (2D), they are not easily hit confirmable, and they are space-dependent. The only 45% combo Ky has that is more than possible in a match is CH 2H combo, though given that, most chars get even more damage off a CH attack (Sol's CH 2D, Millia's CH 2H, Johnny's CH 5H) Based on your description, I can say Chipp does good damage. Off of CH j.D he lands combos that can deal 45% damage (granted it's a CH you see a lot), and he has a TK Alpha blade combo that deals 45% off a correctly spaced 5H, which is usually only possible to space if you land a jump-in 1 hit j.H>5H, and then a barely hit-confirmable TK alpha. No one is questioning if chars like Ky and Bridget really CAN deal good damage, it's HOW OFTEN they can. How often do you see Sol's, Testament's and Anji's deal 45% damage? Usually at least once a match. And over 50%? Occasionally. How often do you see Ky's, Chipp's, and Bridget's deal 45% damage? Occasionally. And over 50%? In a blue moon.

You do not want to compare Ky's damage output to the likes of any of those chars... ever. Anji can touch you w/ most ANY moves on the ground and it will lead to a 45% combo into a reset w/ 25% tension. Off anti-air CH 5P (a hit you can land consistantly) he can deal 35% w/ no knockdown (SJI combo), or 15-35% w/ knockdown, depending if you use tension or not (On combo). Off of his oki setups, damage output can go as high as 65%, and he scores at least 35%. Potentially, Anji just needs 3-4 combos to kill someone, and this is w/o large stretches like max guard meter or random counter hits (1 combo into reset into another combo into reset into another combo). Millia deals a TON of damage as well. A random j.P hit can be converted to a 35% combo (situational), and off her oki setups, 30-45% to a knockdown, depends what hit you started. Potentially, she can kill in 4-5 combos w/o stretches. Now for Ky. Random j.K to a VT knockdown combo around 25%. Anti air 6P to VTL, around 30%. CH anti air 2H, about 45%. Off of grab, 20% w/ tension or FB trap out. Off of oki setups, he can go as high as 40% (averaged out w/ how much guard guage is built), deals at least 25%, but usually scores 35%(2D>FB orb>VTL) No stretches, Ky can kill in 5-7 combos. There's no other way around it. Ky is a pixie compared to 3/4th of the cast. On average, Ky deals 10% less than most other chars . But that doesn't make him a bad char either. Personally, I think he's B tier myself. His spacing/zoning is definitely not what you'd call average, and yet unlike other zoners, he isn't completely helpless under pressure.

Timewise, yeah, an Axl match isn't totally spent on people guessing against your reach attacks. Most of it is actually spent positioning and getting at uncomfortable distances as you said. My assessment is that the points that can matter most in an Axl match is when you start to use your reach attacks to get some movement out of your opponent. Likewise. May and Axl have apparent weaknesses when you compare them to Po and Jam IMO. Though they probably should be ranked higher than guys like Venom and HOS. I unno, B+, A-? Moving along. Wow, it's weird how so many people put Anji in gutter teir. Anji, is not a perfect character, at all. His poke game is perhaps, the worst. Air game, actually one of the better chars, IMO, but it doesn't get him far (low damage output). Mixup and rushdown, good as well... let's put all that aside. There's a reason he can't be totally bad. He's got a panic button. If everything goes wrong, H Fuujin. When things aren't going your way, you can throw this out, and if you land it, great, you just got a 50% combo into knockdown into mix up with potential for another 50% combo (well it may be less thanks to guts, but beyond the point). Before someone asserts "Uh, yeah, it's AC, anyone can turn the match in one move", I would like to say this then. NOT EVERYONE has a panic button. I'd say only about 7 chars have moves that fit the description (Jam w/ FB puffball, Sol w/ VV RC, Testament w/ forward beast, May, Pot, and Slayer are like giant piles of panic buttons, and Anji w/ huujin). Every chars have a chance to turn a match, obviously, but not w/ just one move (Millia needs to set up oki, ABA has to get into Moroha, Axl has to trick people into the air). In no way are panic buttons safe to use, nor am I suggesting 'yeah you can like totally win by mashing'. More that, if you have a single move that can lead to a killing combo and be used in a wide amount of situations, by default, this makes you at least contendable w/ every chars in the roster. Now put back everything else Anji has, great oki options, unblockable setup, hard to touch in the air, autoguard to get out of pressure, traded off w/ bad pokes, and I think you got a char that can play at worst near contendable w/ everyone else. He's got 2 notably bad matches (May, Axl), 5 bad matches (Jam, Slayer, Venom, Ky, Sol), and the rest I think he can go evenly (even Eddie and Po). Do I-no and Bridget have tools that make them contendable w/ every single chars? I-no, like Anji, has no pokes. She has a projectile that can be used here and there, rushdown, ridiculous mix-up and oki, backed up by good damage, but horrible at escaping pressure. The only thing she's got over Anji is a so-so projectile which you mainly use on chars w/ no projectile anyway. So you have a char that can rush the crap out of others, yet can get equally rushed the crap out of, and is easily outgunned. By default, you're gonna have trouble against most chars, and have complete trouble against the rest. She's got like 4 notably bad matches (May, Axl, Jam, Eddie), 6 bad matches (Venom, Ky, Slayer, Potemkin, Testament, Faust), and the rest are at least a sore. I can't say much for Bridget, but in general having low defense and low damage output in exchange for okay zoning, okay oki, okay mixup, okay rushdown, and good hit-and-run (can contend w/ Chipp) is not enough.

Woah there young whippersnapper. Axl match up is one I recognize very well, and me being able to go toe to toe w/ one of the better Axl's in America in Final Round might attest for that (though who knows? Maybe Smoov wasn't in his moment, I got lucky perhaps, w/e). I think there were some things I left unclear, so I'll try to explain better. By pokes I just mean his long reach attacks (5P, 2P, 6K, 2S, 2H, even rensen). I guess by definition they aren't strictly 'pokes', so I'll just stick to saying reach attacks. So anyway Axl has 2 kinds of reach attacks. 1. Low-hitting reach attacks (2P, 2H, rensen) rewards Axl when an opponent doesn't jump (opponent gets guard meter built, takes chipping, start rush when blocked, etc) and the opponent will eat these all day unless he jumps, and for the most part, you can't react to these moves (rensen has, what, 8F startup, 13F full reach I think?). That's when you bring in 2. Anti-air pokes (5P, 6K, 2S). If your opponent jumps and you don't throw out a low hitting move, bam, free 50%. Now here's where Axl might run into trouble: what if your opponent doesn't jump? Of couse, throw out low-hit reach attacks all day. Build some tension maybe, start some rensen pressure. Uh oh, the opponent just airdashed over my rensen, I'm dead. The major problem is you really don't know when your opponent will jump, if at all. Yes, Axl is probably the best air control character in the game, the problem is getting people there. What tools does Axl have to do that? Moves with high reach that hit low yet can get punished by air dashing over it. And obviously, it's not clean and cut that if an opponent guesses a low-hit attack comes out and jumps, that they'll be able to punish, but that risk still exists, and is a risk that can be well taken by most chars. Likewise, Axl players aren't just throwing out reach attacks all day. There are other factors that come into play, but in general, these attacks ARE key points to the match. I actually agree with a lot you have to say here. Axl is NOT a zoning char. I like to think of him as a rusher w/ reach ;p. As I mentioned before, his low hit reach attacks aren't there to keep people away, they're there to get your opponent moving, unlike guys like Venom and Ky, who are just trying to keep opponents at bay and then come in when the opportunity comes up. Hmmm... gotta disagree a bit on some things. Axl's main game IS keeping your opponent where they don't wanna be, but more in the sense of getting the opponent to stay in the ground or jump at the wrong time. Axl's rushdown is short and simple without tension, and it doesn't keep you down for that long. Plus knockdown is usually just a byproduct of hitting an opponent at the right time. That's not to say that Axl's play style is inefficient. He's a char that puts people at risk at near any range. However, he does this while putting himself at risk as well. In that sense, he's a gambling character, which is why I say he plays like a ST character. I actually find it fun to fight an Axl player for this reason. It's a guessing game all around, so you're rewarded more for thinking like your opponent compared to other matches.

Hmmm... prolly right. As much as I try, I can't see it any other way (unless you're playing Pot, Rob, or Jon). Axl relies on tricking people to jumping and punishing them for it, yet at the same time there is no concrete manner that Axl can react to an opponent jumping. Likewise, there's no way someone can react to Axl's pokes, so one has to kinda guess if Axl will throw something out . Axl forces people to play like ST, where you're kinda gambling against one another. USUALLY, the outcome of an Axl match is determined whether Axl throws out a poke at the right time or not. Of course, there's more to Axl than just his pokes. He's got the rensen pressure when he's pinning, 5K whiffing, raiei shenanigans, counters... you know how he plays. However, they're not his most defining features either, more like add-ons to his poking game (counters vs people who try to mash against pokes, raiei after pokes to rile things up a bit, etc). I wouldn't rank Johnny and Anji w/ Bridget or I-no, and I find it a stretch to have Chipp and Dizzy rank w/ chars like Zappa and Venom. ABA in A tier, maybe.