VR-Raiden

Hey guys we're having another tournament at tech. BB and GG inlcuded. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12541-Nov-5-2011-3-UP-Offline-Edition-%28Blacksburg-VA%29&p=1153951#post1153951 and on the topic of those Roanoke Ranbats, I have no idea what happened to them. They guy who originally posted about it hasn't said a thing about it since.

We're having our next tournament at Virginia Tech on Nov 5! We're running BBCS2 and GGAC. Tournament details quoted from SRK thread: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/nov-5-2011-3-up-offline-edition-blacksburg-va.146392/ Hope to see some dustloopers come out.

Ok, I also found that if you do a slightly delayed jump cancel (slightly before they hit ground) straight up and come down with j.B, it can work as a safe jump and catches forward roll. So you can do j.B > 5B > 5D(1) etc. If the timing is slightly off j.B can hit behind you so you don't get a corner combo. If they stay down and wait until you land so your j.B misses, they have a chance to roll through you unless you 2B, but if they don't do it right away 5B will catch it. 5B seems to catch a backroll as well but I can't think of anyone in their right mind backrolling here. So yeah it's going to take some good reaction time if you want to punish anything they could possibly do. But if you don't, none of the options put you in a terribly bad position anyway, from a straight up jump cancel at least. It's still a very safe way of continuing pressure after a combo. It seems like people usually emergency tech the 3C anyway since they probably expect a HF or 22C they're hoping to get out of.

Oh nah, I'm talking about the exact combo Lumin posted just with a j.D added in before the BE. I didn't try dash 5A stuff yet.

6D is fun when you think he'll 3C (many Hakumen can get predictable with this move in my experience). If he does Mugen full screen away, it's a free Carnage Scissor.

On the topic of CH ID in corner, I tried it. You can super jump and add a j.D in to make it do 3236 dmg, 40 heat.

Midscreen 6B far hit combo using 50%. Best damage I could find if you realize 6B hit a crouched opponent too far for 6C(2) to connect at midscreen. If this happens in corner, it's better to use a 2D RC combo instead. 6B (far crouch hit) > 5C > 6C(1) RC > dash 5C > 6C DC > dash 5D(1) > dash 5C HJC > j.C > j.D JC > j.C > j.D > ID(D)214D 3616 dmg, 23 heat after RC If it brings them near corner during the combo, you can do BE after the first j.C into 5D > ID > 3C > ender

Cool I'll mess around with it more. I'm reminded of a post back from CS1 about something related to this, I'll have to find it.

Wow I didn't realize 5B>5C>3C>HF(1) was as good as it is until looking at the tutorial closer and trying it more. You're actually at advantage even after whiffing a 22C if they emergency tech after the HF(1), I did not expect that. So they get 22C'd for waiting to roll away or delaying their neutral tech, and if they emergency tech you can still apply pressure. I'm gonna use this more. Question though, how is the 3C delayed JC stuff supposed to deal with an opponent choosing to stay down on the ground? It seems like there's not much you can do. A forward jump cancel causes you to go over them and into the corner yourself, so I'm assuming jump canceling straight up is the safer option. Only things that I can get to hit a grounded opponent from the air are BE and ID, both wouldn't be great if they neutral tech'd through them. If they've stayed down long enough I guess you can land and do the 22A~C thing. I'm just wondering if staying down hurts the mix-up a lot or some ways of dealing with it. Also, is there any reason to safe jump with j.B and not j.C? I seem to be able to get a safe jump j.C too. Tested vs. Ragna ID© and Hazama houtenjin.

Awesome job.

I'll try both of your points later but I'll take your word for it. I remember trying one set up on everyone and couldn't get it to work on Tager, so I figured none would, but I'll try again. EDIT: Out of those 3 methods on Tager, I can only get the cross under 2A to work from the ID wall bounce. Probably cuz you have more time to get your momentum going. And yeah, 2D doesn't have to hit super close for the cross under, it works pretty much anywhere except max range and close to it.

It's looking good so far, but I agree on the text being hard to read. I think a thicker black outline on the text might fix that. Or maybe show text on a full black screen instead of over top of gameplay. It's mostly hard to read the parts where you list strength and weaknesses.

Ragna vs Hakumen or Jin It's just awesome.

Ok thanks guys, I tried the non dash 5A ones. After trying them, I found one that's a tiny bit stronger (and easier imo) for non dash 5A in corner: corner CH HF > dash 6A (JC) > j.C > BE > dash 5D(1) > DS > 2C > 5D > ID©236C236C > dash under 3C > HF/22C/ID(D)214D = 2643/2942/2672 dmg you can get away with both hits of ID© in the combo if you let them fall low enough from the DS. compared to: corner CH HF > dash 6A (JC) > j.C > BE > 5D(1) > DS > dash 2C > 5D > ID(D)(1)236C236C > dash under 3C > HF/22C/ID(D)214D = 2629/2918/2659 dmg We're talking miniscule differences though, I just find getting ID(1) consistently annoying at the moment, so I wanted to find another option.

Don't let him keep spitting on you. TK GH avoids his 2D, if he chooses to do it repeatedly thinking he can get away with it, make him change his mind. You can barrier guard both hits of the 2D and if he does another, you can still TK GH in time and hit him. He can block it if he didn't spit a 2nd time though so be careful about it. If you land a hit when you're cursed, like a ID or something, make the combo last as long as possible. Try to keep some meter reserved for counter assaults in case something goes wrong and you get cursed. If you block a dive, punish with dash 5A into combo.

I didn't see it in here, but what are the best CH HF combos? I'm specifically looking for meter-less midscreen and in corner. And ones for non-dash-5A-able characters. What I've got so far: midscreen CH HF > dash 5C > 6A (hjc) > j.C j.D (JC) > j.C j.D > ID(D)214D = 2233 dmg corner CH HF > dash 5B > 6A > TK BE > dash 5D(1) > DS > 5D (DC) > 6A (hjc) > j.C > ID(D)214D = 2516 dmg or end with 5D > HF = 2346 dmg

If you look closely, Tager in his standing getting-hit-animation. The j.A registered as an overhead, hence the red !. So his standing hitbox is being hit by an overhead. In that case it looks like Ragna landed before performing a dash j.A. For comparison, look at 1:48 in the video. That's Tager's crouched getting-hit-animation.

And now here's footage of the fuzzy guard I talked about last post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkqHXa7ei9I at 5 min in.

If you're opponent isn't hurting you a lot for using HF full screen away, it's going to be hard to stop doing it. But if they are, stop and make use of barrier block while running, spacing your pokes properly, and double jumping. Try to pay attention to what your opponent's attack ranges are and try to get them to whiff something with slow enough recovery, it can be a chance to get in on them. Or to approach from the air, jumping in with barrier block to avoid getting anti-air'd, or double jumping to avoid an anti-air then coming down on them. Air dashing works too but is riskier since you can't block until after the air dash completes.

Yeah, that's what I talked about in my edit. I tested it more and if you already did BE in the combo it lets them tech pretty soon after getting picked up again so it's unlikely you'll get to continue with anything unless they aren't paying much attention. They do tech pretty close to the ground and close to you so it's not a terrible situation, but not great either. So if you're doing it off a full combo, it's better if they do emergency tech. Which I think is more likely anyway, they actually have more than one opportunity to. If they emergency tech (which you should be training them to do), it leads to a surprising situation if they were waiting for the usual combo enders. You're within throw range so it can be a good throw set up too if they haven't seen it before. Also here's something else I was messing with, Ragna can actually do fuzzy guard stuff off his j.B and j.C on some characters. - low as possible blocked j.B/j.C (JC) > immediate j.A If they crouch after blocking the j.B/j.C, j.A will hit as an overhead on their standing hitbox. Sadly, all you can do to combo after the j.A hits is ID. Simple combos you can do near corner: j.A > ID(D)236C236C > dash under 2C > 5D(1) > DS > 5C > 5D > HF/ID(D) ~ 2.5k dmg j.A > ID(D) (RC) > sj.C > j.D (JC) > j.C > BE > 5D(1) > DS > 5C > 5D > ID236C236C > dash under 3C > 22C/HF ~ 3695/3447 dmg If they blocked you're j.A and you did ID, you can RC and continue pressure. You have to be careful though, if they Barrier blocked the j.B/j.C you could be pushed out too far the ID will whiff. This works on: Ragna, Hakumen, Tsubaki, Hazama, Lambda, Tager*, Litchi. *On Tager you can fuzzy guard with j.C also, easy to get good damage without having to use meter. An example of where this could be applied is after opting to end a combo with 3C delayed JC. I was thinking this might be a lot more useful in Extend if his j.C hitbox buff stays. Might make it so we can combo j.A > j.C in this situation.

Hey how bout some more funny things. 1. This one is from CS1, but might as well put it here too. After ID>214D heel drop, RC and immediately do BE. The opponent must emergency tech or the BE will pop them up as a blue beat. If they don't emergency tech, you can continue the combo depending on how much you did before the first ID. If they do emergency tech, you are at advantage and close during their tech. I will note they can mash 5A/2A to hit you out of 6B here (not like that's uncommon ) Works midscreen and corner, but more practical in corner since it's easier to continue to combo if they don't emergency tech the BE. 2. Another BE trick, similar to 1 but could be more applicable because it costs no meter. Corner: ID236C > dash under 3C > TK BE. Again, if the opponent doesn't emergency tech they get popped up by the BE. EDIT: after some more testing, these aren't too friendly if done after long combos, the opponent can air tech after being popped up pretty soon. However if they didn't emergency tech (which is why they get launched in the first place) they have to air tech reaaally soon after that happens, so you may still get away with a 5D into something. 3. Cross under stuff, its questionable how practical this is but here are some set ups. They work on everyone but Tager. Also they don't work in the corner obviously. - 3C > HF(1) > they neutral tech > dash under 2A - ID>236C>236C in corner > they neutral tech > dash under 2A (they must contact the ground after the wallbounce for this to work) - (close hit) 2D > they neutral tech > dash under 2A

If you click the post number at the top right corner of a post, it provides a link to that post.

Hey Lumin, maybe it would be a lot of work, but it might be nice if we had a link to the post which first described something for each, within the first post. It could prevent misunderstandings if there was something not fully explained about one, people would know who to ask about it, and it would just be nice to see it in people's own words too. I don't mean ones that have been discussed in other threads already just ones in here would be nice.

I didn't even mention 6D since it takes so long to become airborne, but yeah it does work if they decided to throw that late... I'm glad you're updating the first post with stuff for this thread Lumin, so people don't have to sift through the inevitable theory-fighter arguments to find anything in here later.

I need to steal all this stuff next time I practice. Here's something a little less involved, but it's low risk and works sometimes: Basically make it clear that you intend to go for a throw on someone, then TK BE. If they anticipated a throw and tried to throw break, you'll CH them for a little combo. If they block, you're safe/at advantage if they didn't IB. It will also go over some low hitbox attacks. Do it after common throw situations, like after running in their face, HF(1), 2A>5A(whiff), or whatever. You can use it on the defensive too. Why it's worth mentioning? Any other method of punishing a throw attempt is unsafe on block without meter. It can also start your offensive again. and yeah, if they properly deal with throws they will be blocking until you actually throw them to input a throw break. Just putting it out there.