TastyPancakez

I'll try to answer before someone more knowledged comes along lol. I like to dash cancel 5C up close. Not sure if OMC -> 5C/5D works or j.5D after 5C. After you hit the enemy with a 2C you can charge 2C oki in the corner and follow up with an attack. I tend to do 5C but sometimes I continue with 5A or more 5C. It's probably best that you don't thanatos pressure fullscreen though as often. Not saying to never do it but throw out Zio's and also Agi when it's safe. Also 5B is probably bad but if it hits the enemy you can dash cancel and go for a grab I believe or follow up with 5BB -> microjump -> 5A. You just don't want to randomly throw out 5B because of the recovery. And I think it's also unsafe as a blockstring because I've been DP'ed when I used it. Just be smart about it, it's not a bad idea if you're already in the middle of pressure. 5AA -> 5C doesn't work to my knowledge. 2B -> OMC -> 5A is a good idea I think. Sometimes I do 5AA -> 5B -> Dash cancel -> etc, 5BB(B sometimes) -> microdash -> 2A -> 5A, or I might even throw out a Garu to follow up with a j.B/j.A which is probably not a good idea but nevertheless. When you are awakened you can try using Bufu too. Not sure how effective it is but you can halfscreen 214A or fullscreen 214AB. 214A is better I think because you can combo from it faraway but not sure about 214AB. Maybe after that Zio and then -> stuff.

Is there any way to punish his teleport if he doesn't shoot out his projectile? I can't AA him when he begins like throwing his knives

I use them a lot but you shouldn't use them if the enemy has a burst. You have to recognize when it's a good time to send them out versus a normal corner combo. I like it because the enemies needs to watch when to burst. I can get a 4K with shock and poison when the enemy could have bursted but they're too preoccupied worrying about my hama combo. Shadow characters you can just go wild though.

BTW just a question how often do you guys try and Hama? Even if I don't have enough meter I use it sometimes to mixup the enemy. Puts a lot of pressure on them

Ohh, if that's the case, my bad. I did beat it w/Liz though - you can spam 5C -> 2C and go on defense when they get 50 meter for most chars. For characters like Yukiko, Yukari or Aigis you can deal some damage and then time out win using SB Dia which is projectile invul. Also Hama combos.

I actually found Elizabeth to be not that bad in this game. All you really have to do is rush her down. - Break her Persona when she uses command grab, which will be obvious when you pause correctly. - When/if you break her Persona, rush her down (but still be careful because she can grab you if you aren't careful) - You can bait her Randomizer and get a CH combo - When she uses an IK assuming she isn't at the corner you can roll past that and make sure she doesn't heal - You can bait Ghostly Wail It was probably easier for me because as Liz you can Hama combo her but yeah you just need to know her AI, and learn to use this pause method well.

^ It's not extremely difficult if you can use the pause method well. Just really time consuming. I beat all of them and got my Liz navi, so if you need Naoto, I imagine with her fate counter it won't be the hardest SA to beat. You already beat one apparently so maybe like...one course a day is a good idea Also I read on GameFAQS from some dude that said you can't unlock navigators using shadow counterparts, so keep that in mind. Dunno if true or not.

^ I might be able to tomorrow if you're willing to. I don't have a mic though so maybe I should just use the critique thread if I want advice, lol. I always thought that the freeze time was fixed so I don't know. Is the second hit of the Bufu landing or is it just the initial freeze that's hitting? That might be it

Anyone have this for Xbox? I want to see if I'm doing something wrong because I'm really just struggling in general with Liz. I dunno whats going on tbh

Didn't know about the SB Garu stuff, thanks. And it's not that the combo itself is hard since I can easily do it in practice but doing it over netplay for me is just like not possible unless it's with awakening Garu :p

^ I guess that's true. Liz just seems a lot slower and weaker so I should get used to that. I just don't like her changes that much. More Day 1 Stuff: - Hama combos are harder to do than I thought. Frequently 2C knocks the enemy backwards, or 2C launches the enemy too high so they can tech. I did do one though so I'm proud of that 8) - Is it possible to punish the enemy if they break a charged 2C or is the recovery too long? I should test that - 5AAA -> 214A is so good. They either don't tech out of the ice and you get free poison or they try to get out and you land a CH. - Having trouble connecting Bufu to j.D, gonna have to practice that... - 5BB doesn't seem like a valid blockstring because I'm always DP'ed when I use it. Probably imputting it too slow. - Garu is really weird. Usually I follow it up with 5AA because 2A -> j.B -> j.A -> j.C is too hard lol. I should probably use SB Garu in pressure more because it seems a lot safer to follow up with normals.

Thing about Liz iz now is that idk how to play her neutral. I usually just sweeped -> poison and kept trying to catch the enemy but I got DP'ed and rolled a lot. And if I try to bait and they don't actually initiate any of those they attack me and I'm stuck on defense so can't really rushdown. I can't use D like I used to because the reach is so awful. The combos are a lot tighter too except in the corner but corner combos are kind of weakish if you aren't in awakening. I love 2C Charge -> 5D though lots of people get caught from that. Liz just feels a lot more gimmicky to me. She's definitely much harder to use. Only day 1 tho so we'll see

^ yup same

Elizabeth is a little weirder now...but I like her new autocombo. (5AA) Her D nerf is really noticeable too...

Yeah that's an interesting question. I remember seeing a Damosu vid of him versus Teddie, and I think he could have used SB Diarahan to win the match to beat the timer but he didn't and he ended up losing. I know that 5C > 2C > 214AB > Diarahan is safe (I think) but I'm not sure why people never use it.

nvm, disregard this pist

From the song list posted earlier, anyone know the name of Liz's remix?

So from watching lots of Damosu he seems to end lots of combos like sweep -> poison. Is that actually optimal or should you not throw out poison like that?

^ Yeah but I think lots of his info was false

(Thanks for looking up challenge mode for me btw ^^) Randomizer sounds awesome. I stink at execution and can barely do Mitsuru (best I did with her was a 5K) but I don't think Randomizer will be that hard to use. Also I guess in regards to your Randomizer set-up it kind of looks like a thing you'd watch the enemy's meter for, or MU knowledge considering what kind of reversals the enemy has. (probably being Captain Obvious here but yeah.) IDK, keeping in mind that I'm a non-competitive player I feel like another approach to this would be to bait the enemy breaking the persona card by like...placing 236B really close to the enemy. Then get a CH off of it. Trying to come up with something but I'm not sure that would work against more experienced players ^^" Also not sure if this was tested but how does Randomizer react against projectiles? (Yukiko's fans/Yukari's arrows)

Yeah, that is true. Guess I shouldn't have been so hasty :p So basically SB Mind Charge has no reasonable functionality - I've seen people saying that, so I guess it's true. :/ I think that particular Youtube comment was mostly wrong anyways. Also, not that this is top priority, but what are Elizabeth's challenges like? Are the combos there mostly optimal? (the advanced ones)

Saw this on a Youtube comment. Is this true? "SB Mind charge makes her enter awakening without decreasing her health" I doubt it's true because people keep insisting that SB Mind Charge has no purpose but just making sure.

First match here is Damosu vs. Denpa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWUWZdNd0Y&feature=youtu.be Damosu gets a pretty lengthy Hama combo in the corner so that's pretty cool

Dang. I don't want to deal with more Mitsuru's and Yosuke's lol. Not sure about Yu though. He seems less obnoxious as a matchup overall because his sweep -> D is gone and he can't lock you down anymore. Though he does have other tools...

Wait, are Garu loops still in the game? Unless you mean Garu is used 2x in a combo it seems like the closest thing a loop is the combo that follows 5D in P4A. (j.B, j.A, j.C) I mean I guess they could still exist but they don't seem optimal. Also just wondering are the obnoxious match ups (Mitsuru, Yosuke, Yu) still obnoxious?