rubedo777

To be honest, I want to hear what are FAB's thoughts on the tiers. I consider him the best GG player and he's always fighting uphill battles and taking Potemkin to places most people can't, despite very bad matchups.

I don't see what is so hard about this matchup to be honest. I haven't run into any Elphelts online (low or high ranked) that would suggest it was a bad matchup. I didn't get a chance to fight Bananaken's though. If you aren't instant blocking bridal express, I guess I can see why you might be having trouble. Grenades can be dash parried with ease. What exactly does she have that is a bad matchup for him?

Yeah I knew about this...and then forgot about it as I was learning other things. I need to implement this into my game. Thing is, this isn't so useful if the opponent has good reactions.

I don't really agree with this... But it's too late right now to write up a response. I'll just say that the best Bedman players in Japan, vs the best players of other characters, don't have this kind of struggle that you say. Doesn't mean they don't lose, but you can't expect them to always win. Probably the biggest struggle I've seen from Bedman players is against Ramlethals but there are still a number of videos out there of top Bedmans beating top Ramlethals.

You can hit up, then airdash after task A, with or without YRC

what do you mean "IK Overhead" and "IK Low"?

It's decent pressure but they can jump out of a lot of that pressure...they can even poke you depending on the character. I've been trying to come up with some confusing uses of 236K dejavu to teleport to the other side out of nowhere while in the middle of other moves. Honestly I think this is where Bedman's pressure game is more threatening and Tsubu uses it to great effect.

I didn't read the entire thread but of what I read, I didn't see much about Bedman so... First, why are there so few Bedman players? I read that only 3% of the Japanese playerbase uses Bedman. Secondly, why is he so low tier? I've seen top players like Tsubu and Sabamisu be very consistent with him in terms of winning. Against Faust and Ramlethal the matches are generally hit or miss for Bedman (it's a hard matchup) but still I see them do very well overall...is it just because most Bedman players just aren't as good as Tsubu/Sabamisu and that the tierlist is based on the "general Bedman play"? If so, why is Zato so why if most of the character's placing is due to Ogawa being so good?

Honestly I don't think his ground throw game is his focus...Bedman has more than enough tools to mix, using his airdashes. Mixup your airdash chains as well as your ground pressure.

1) Use both. You want to vary your options as much as possible, Bedman is about lockdown and unpredictability/deception. 2) Raw Task C is questionable (can be instant block->thrown or blitz shielded) but Task C dejavu is great for pressure.

I was actually using something like this but I noticed that sometimes opponent would be too far away(because of no vaccuum effect of the second hit of 5H) and 236H won't hit properly.

Typo...should be 236K

I only tested on Sol btw...I wonder if it's easier/harder to crossup against other characters. Will test tomorrow.

Lots of recent(Jan 4/2015) footage of Mitsuru playing netplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVNg9hNTzxQ Learning a lot from this

I've seen Mitsuru use a lot of superjump into diagonal downwards S (or even just vertical down S, depending on his positioning), as well as other stuff. Honestly I think he has the best movement of all Bedman's I've watched, lots of good air strings he uses. Another one I use is j(S, 66, PP), though this doesn't work on some characters (like standing Millia and May). It's not really a standard one...you'd probably use this after using the more common stuff (that you've mentioned).

6H is negative on block but it combos into Task A and you can RC that for huge damage (like 190 damage on Sol). Tiamat posted a pretty basic one...6H, Task A, RC, walk up 5H(2 hits), 1H, 236H. You can setup crossups with Task A' off sweep knockdowns but every character has different wakeup timings so you have to find out all the different combos you have to use on each character. I haven't tested against all characters yet but here are some examples: Sin: jump attack, 2K/cl5S, 2D, 236K Millia, Ky, May: jump attack, 2P, 2K, 2D, 236K jump attack, 2K/cl5S, 2D, 236K (the jump attack so that Bedman lands close to the opponent)\point blank 2K, cl5S, 5H(1), 2D, 236K Bedman: jump attack, 2K, cl5S, 5H(1), 2D, 236K point blank 2K, cl5S, f5S, 5H(1), 2D, 236K (not useful in the sense that he has better combo options at point blank) Potemkin: (opponent standing) jump attack, 2K/cl5S, 2D, 236K (opponent crouching) jump attack, 2K/cl5S, 5H(1), 2D, 236K Sol, Slayer, Chipp: jump attack, 2K/cl5S, 5H(1), 2D, 236K These combos above are for when you are not point blank...if you're point blank, there are better combos that you can convert to that lead to higher damage and Task C seal, so I don't think it was worth finding those out...it's when you land a jumpin(or a poke from further away that isn't point blank) and aren't close enough to combo into something high damage, that you can go for these crossup task A' setups.

If your 236K hits from behind, you don't even have to move forward with 6H. You can 6H immediately, for a double crossup (well, double crossup in the sense that they will prepare to block the other way since you teleported behind them, but you will crossup back to the original way with 6H). Of course this is still very prone to getting counterthrown, so you have to mix it up with doing 2K immediately after 236K (they are in blockstun so if they are mashing throw and you do 2K instead, they will get hit). This threat should make them respect the situation and not mash throw.

Anyway the reason I decided to test this was that I was using 6H in instances where opponent wasn't necessarily in hitstun/blockstun and I was just outside throw range. The opponent was blocking it surprisingly well even though it was switching sides. I was surprised because the opponent actually wasn't very good but was unusually good at reacting to this crossup, so I went to test in the lab and behold, it was never actually crossing up in those situations.

Well... If 236K hits from the front, you aren't in throw range. I waited a second and then did 6H. It executed, but it wasn't a crossup (even though it switched sides). Edit: I got it...to get it to crossup after 236K, you have to walk up a slight bit when doing 6H...maybe a pixel or more. If you just do 6H with no moving forward, it doesn't crossup. Because of the hitstun/blockstun of 236K, you're able to move forward into throw range and 6H without throwing them.

Yes it seems to be the case... However, at neutral, I was trying the same range as when you do 6H after a 236K, and it would still not crossup. Why is that? Edit: Knocking them down and then doing a 6H up close, does crossup. Nvm, with enough playing around of the distances, got it to crossup at neutral...but it's very picky. Bottomline for this move is, even if it switches sides, it doesn't mean it has to be blocked the other way. Seems like the only reliable way to get it to be a true crossup is after 236K or on wakeup.

That's not what I'm asking. The move can be blocked either way even if visually, it switches sides...except in certain cases, when it actually does crossup like it's supposed to. Test it yourself. Set the cpu to be Bedman...record a 6H. Then position your character close to Bedman but not at throw range of course, so that visually, the 6H will switch sides. Even if it switches sides, it can be blocked either direction. But if you 6H after a 236K, it has to be blocked the other way (as a true crossup).

Alright so I need to know...regarding 6H. If done at neutral...say, Bedman is walking up to you and then does 6H, you can block it whether you are holding left or right. However, if Bedman say, does a 236K to teleport up to the opponent and then does 6H immediately after, it has to be blocked as a crossup. Is there something buggy about this move? When exactly does it have to be blocked as a crossup and why?

So I've been watching a lot of Bedman videos...pretty much everything and damn...even though Mitsuru doesn't seem to play anymore, I feel like his movement is better than all the other Bedmans. I really enjoy watching even his really old matches. Though overall, I think Tsubu has the most complete gameplay and the most complex setups. Nakasu and Sabamisu are strong too but I put Mitsuru/Tsubu above them. Tsubu's setups...I feel like they are only going to work against a good opponent that understands what's going on. Attempting these kind of setups against netplayers will just lead to failure I think.

I'm getting about 3-6 frames of delay but it is still not reasonable...people online just doing whatever, spamming dust, Ky 214K, potemkin hammer fists, pretty much whatever they want and because of the delay, anything can happen. I fought someone with 1f input delay and damn was it good.

Just tested and yeah it works...not useful if the opponent knows it's a clash.