Justice7541

Honestly I think if you don't like Rise's offensive game you're probably not going to be a huge fan of Marie's either.

Note oki is crazy good though. Guaranteed meaty into guaranteed lockdown (2c) into a pretty legit mixup that also has the potential to convert into an unblockable for massive damage if the opponent has no meter. It's not quite sweep 5d but it's the closest we're probably gonna get in this game.

Counter roll takes a really long time and has a long recovery, I think you're at least still neutral if they counter roll on reaction to the superflash.

Also keep in mind that it costs them 50 meter to get out. It's not free to escape the unblockable. Which means if you do a combo into an unblockable setup you're basically forcing them to take all the meter they just got from the combo and burn it to escape. Especially if you're Shadow Rise and you can do something like meterless scan combo > safe note set oki > whatever > rampage > 2b (note detonates) 22a+b 5aa 214214c+d which means they HAVE to counter roll to escape. Meanwhile you've still got like ten seconds of Rampage remaining so if you touch them again they have to burn another 50 (if they even have that much) or pretty much eat 5k. It's not a free unblockable like you're Kokonoe or something but having so many guaranteed setups where the ONLY way out is to burn meter is pretty good.

That's actually really good. That means 5AA 5B 5C delay 22A 2A+B 236B 2B(1) 22A 5C 5D 214A is a legit combo for 3k, scan, and note oki all at once for absolutely no meter cost. Also double lightning looks super troll. Also this is kinda funny: VS standing as Shadow Rise: 5AA 5B 5C delay 22A 2A+B 236B 2B hop j.B j.236C land 5AAA 214A > Rampage > 236236C+D 236236B (mash C to detonate orbiters during slap animation) OMC 214214C+D (5.7k) Not the best damage for a Shadow Rampage combo but it's unburstable and the best part is the pre-Rampage part builds stupid amounts of meter (70 off 5A) so you can do it off pretty much any corner standing hit. You can get a similar effect off any other confirm anywhere that can end in 5AAA 214A although you probably won't build quite as much meter (5AAA 214A gives like 40 meter by itself though). If the pre-Rampage part is shorter you can do Rampage > 236236C+D dash 214B 214A, 214B 214A 236236B OMC 214214C+D to pad the damage a bit and you'll pretty much always end up around the 5.7k mark with a perfect SB Risette Live.

How are you getting 22A to work on crouch/vs. skinny characters like Rise, Minazuki, etc.?

There's always #p4u on the Mizuumi IRC but it's not Rise-specific, although there are a couple of Rise players there. Also I've concluded that it's too hard to get hard knockdown note oki and scan at the same time no matter how strong it is, I need to find good setplay setups that don't require hard KD.

I'll try it by dropping the 2C. That was really the most finicky part of the combo for me although I'm not 100% convinced that 5AA will combo right off 214A since I seem to remember that 2C was necessary specifically because it allowed the opponent time to drop a bit further after the lightning shock and be juggled by the spinning bit. I wonder if it's possible to fit a scan in there somehow. It'd be the perfect route if you could.

100 meter sounds like a pretty minor requirement considering how fast Marie gets meter in Snow weather. Snow SP regen is 5 every two seconds or so if I'm not mistaken with my timing.

Yeah, the problem is more that you can't get a perfect 236B note oki if you do just 5AA. I'm trying to figure out how to get the sweep ender consistently on all characters. You can do some really silly stuff using scanned 22B blockstrings, feels like a waste to pass up the setup just because of execution issues.

It's not the difficulty in execution so much as it is the fact that to ensure that you land note oki you need to get the timing and spacing on both the 214a and the dash 2c just right, and that's super hard to do consistently. Compare that to the scan/note combo which has annoying microdash links and you also have to time your 5C 5D properly, but at least in that case it's just a matter of hitting the link with the right timing. In this case it's much more inconsistent since there's so many more ways you can botch it. Which I guess is technically an execution thing as well although in a more abstract sense.

Well I was trying this and it's a pretty good route in theory, but: 1) I can't get 5AA 5C to combo. Microdash 5C instead works but it makes the height slightly more variable. 2) The dash 2C is super finicky about how they bounce. Sometimes 5A whiffs entirely, sometimes they don't bounce high enough for sweep to hit, sometimes 5AA actually crosses under them. So it's kind of not a very stable route despite high damage, good corner carry, and strong oki. I'm also really liking midcombo scans into notes so I'm thinking that when that's possible, it beats any other option just on account of all the silly stuff you can do with that particular setup.

Here's a really strong Rise setup/combo I've been working on. 5AA 2A+B 236C+D dash 5C(1) 22A 5C(1) 5D dash 5AA 2A+B (2806 damage) > meaty 236B dash 5AA 2B(1) (note detonates) 22B 5A 2A+B dash 214214C(+D) "Meterless" setup into unblockable using midcombo scan. Turns out scanned 22B works similar to 22A+B in terms of airtightness so long as you use a note detonation to cover the 22B itself (since it can be crouched to make whiff otherrwise) and the extra stun from sweep is just enough to make the rest airtight. Mostly the problem here is in the setup combo, the 5C 5D part should be technically universal but it's a bit annoying on certain characters. Characters with skinnier air hitboxes (Rise, Minazuki, etc.) won't get hit by descending lightning as easily so it's possible that 5C(1) won't combo directly into descending 22A. For those characters you have to delay the 5C just enough so that the next bolt that comes down still connects without the combo dropping, but if you delay it too much they won't drop enough and you won't be able to 5AA for the knockdown. Also the sweep ender is a bit tough, you can drop it and just do 5AA > note oki but that costs you about 150 damage. Still a pretty good setup to learn considering. Getting both midcombo scan and note oki is too strong. I wonder if there's an easier setup for it though.

Are we talking about 22A+B startup or after the lightning comes down? I was trying to IB DP it when I first discovered you could do it and not having much luck, it may be character specific.

Should work even on IB. I'll have to test it later.

That works without scan midscreen, you only need scan to make it airtight in corner. Basically 22A+B hits will be airtight on the way down with no gaps so long as you push them back a bit.

What's the shortest starter you can do that combo with and still get sweep > note oki? I really can't live without my note oki.

Think of her as a setplay character I guess, she has relatively bad damage and short ranges but she's strong once she's in and her momentum carry is super strong.

Interestingly this game seems to have some degree of crossup protection. Not as bad as in UNIEL but it's there. Might be old news to some but it seems like if you cross up a standing opponent from too ambiguously close they will be able to block it both ways. Doing notes > jump forward turn around j.B can be blocked both ways for example. It doesn't seem to apply if the opponent is crouching so there's still a "high/low" mixup in there I guess, you could do notes > 5AA 2B or 5AA j.B and the notes will cross up a crouching opponent and 2B will hit a standing one depending on how well they react to your jump. Either way the notes will lock them down for further mixup, i.e. if they block 2B you can still do 2C for combo/more pressure. If you actually want to cross someone up with something that can't be blocked both ways I tihnk notes > 5AA back jump airdash j.B is your best bet. You pass over the opponent enough that crossup protection doesn't kick in and depending on spacing you make it not cross up at all. Incidentally if you do the above 2B/j.B mixup and get the 2B, you can do 2B(1) (notes detonate) 2C 5D dash 5A > whatever. You can even just do 5AAA 214A 236236B and still have the Analyze for after.

5a 5b 5c 2c 236b~4a 214cxa 2b 236a~4axa 2c 236a 623c is your best bet. You can adjust the starter and ender to fit your purposes obviously. If you're seeing Byakuya float out of corner after a web set it's either 214X~X or a TK web.

Still pretty good if it gets you Arrow Rain unblockable setup in corner. Have you tried doing 236B meaty to detonate the existing note, set a new one, and blockstring the detonation fior that into 22A+B setup? Something like 214A > 236B meaty (detonates old note) > dash 5AA 2B(1) detonates new one) 22A+B 5AA (lightning hits)> whatever.

Double post lmao

SB Eye opening by itself isn't unblockable, just so you know. It's only unblockable if you actually trigger it.

I think it's a matchup thing. I wouldn't really want to play Shadow Rise vs. someone like Shadow Chie who can almost 100% me if I don't have a burst, and who will conversely always be sitting on meter to CA out of my unblockables. On the other hand someone like Sho or Minazuki who just runs easily IB'd pressure for days would be relatively free to Shadow unblocks since you'd basically be sitting on enough meter to turn every stray blocked hit into an unblockable. Is that a midair tech trap? Can they forward tech out of it? I was looking into midair tech trap resets into unblockable but I couldn't figure out a way to catch both forward and neutral tech at a height where DDR would actually hit.

Some Rise tech that isn't DDR gimmicks: After meaty note oki: - Dash 5AA jump forward j.B (triggers notes) - crossup mixup. If you press j.B immediately the notes will hit same-side, if you delay it just a couple of frames you will pass over the opponent and hit crossup. Works even if the opponent is crouching because the detonation of the higher note triggers the lower one. Either way you can land and 5A for an easy followup. - Dash 5AA 5B 2C IAD > airdash mixup (j.B j.A double overhead, j.B 2A high/low, j.B j.A land j.B(1) j.C OMC fuzzy triple overhead) - notes makes 2C set airtight so you have time to jump and go into airdash mixup. - Dash 5AA 2B(1) 22A+B 5AA (lightning comes down) 214C > 236A > dash 5A > any mixup obscured by Tetrakarn Note oki is basically sweep 5D tier mixups lol.