Justice7541

Stuff from challenge mode that seems useful in practice: Crouch confirm > 5C 214B (input between first and second hits of 5C) 2B 5C etc. Corner confirm > sweep 236A+B 2B(1) 5C 22A etc. (higher proration starters can do 2B(2) instead of 2B(1) 5C to detonate both notes and get more stun)

People seem to like the stupidly edgy theme, I don't get it either.

Seth is Yuki Kaji, he is literally like everyone's VA.

You could do: Whatever > 623C > 5C (need dash 5C against Merk, Gord, Wald, Vat, maybe a couple others) 214A~D, FFC~X. I've been meaning to test to see if it's possible to do meaty D web > FFC~D > mixup. It's not DP-safe but it should be possible to get the first D web to hit (and drain GRD) while you set a second one and drain more GRD, then go into a mixup since FFC~D is something like +20 on block.

Since it's 19-23f cancel window and the followups themselves are around 8f startup, it's definitely super mashable. That said it's still way harder to properly shield/punish on reaction than regular web set. Also FFC~A whiff 2C low can be spaced so [b+C] will hit overhead if you don't FFC. It's not an unreactable setup by any means but I'm willing to wager it'll work at least some of the time.

You only need to tap 5D for one frame to make it work. It's not really unsafe in the slightest. Worst case scenario is you don't realize you lost the charge and try to do it and get blown up since FF is like -27 on block. Which is why I went through and tested all the things you could do to lose charge but really the gist of it is "if you didn't air assault, crouch, or do a special after you pressed D, you're probably fine".

Yeah I need to correct what I said before a bit. It looks like just pressing D isn't good enough, you have to get an actual D action out of it. Anyway, complete version of how to kara FF: You will need a D "charge" (see below) to do this. The kara itself isn't super complicated, the input is just [b+C] > A/B/C/D right as the flash happens. The cancel window itself appears to be 19-23. If done right you should see the flash and then Byakuya should immediately go straight into a web pull followup depending on which button you pressed for the kara (if you want B or C followups you will need to release B+C and press B/C again right away, otherwise you can keep holding B+C and press A/D and it'll still work). Easiest way to practice is to just do 5D charge (only needs to be for a split second) > [b+C] > A or D. In terms of when the D charge will give you a kara FF in practice: You will get a "charge" enabling you to perform kara FF with: - Web pull D followup (regular and from FF kara) - Pressing D during a web pull EVEN IF it doesn't come out (i.e. if you do it too early or after you land) - Neutral charge - Veil Off Moves that will NOT give a charge: - CS (unless done at neutral since that will give you a charge for a couple of frames) - Shielding (ground or air) - Any other D press that does not give an actual D action (i.e. D durng other moves, 2D, air D) - IW and IWEXS Moves that will cause you to lose a charge (i.e. you will need to "charge" again if you want to kara FF): - Any move that puts you into an actual crouching state - Air assault (no matter how you input it, i.e. j.66, j.6A+B, j.6D) - Any successful FF kara (other than D web set because that gives you another charge) - 214 web set by itself - 214 web set > pull > followup (note: pull alone doesn't cause you lose charge, see below) - 623X - IWEXS - Being knocked down (being launched and air teching is okay) - Round/match end (duh) Moves that DO NOT cause you to lose your charge (i.e. you can still do kara FF without charging again): - Waiting indefinitely (I tapped D then wrote this post and the kara FF still worked after) - Messing up the FF kara itself (i.e. B+C actually comes out) - Standing block (as long as you don't crouch, see above) - Pressing down without going into crouch (i.e. while doing a special input, or doing it when you can't actually crouch, i.e. in the air) - Doing a web pull WITHOUT a followup (i.e. 214X~X) - 236X - Being hit WITHOUT being knocked down (being launched is okay so long as you don't touch the ground) - Ground assault (6D) - Any movement that isn't listed above (i.e. attacking, regular jump, regular dash, etc.) You do NOT need any special vorpal, GRD, etc. state. In fact it still works while GRD broken if you still have a charge or you do the D web followup to get one.

It's a move that was removed. The code basically blocked the game from checking for ABCD inputs during FF but it didn't block D + another button which is why the D press makes it work. There's no GRD requirement either, that was incorrect. All it takes is pressing D or Veil Off before pressing FF.

Looks like the exact input is D~[b+C]~X. Works every time provided you time the presses right. The D doesn't have to be a charge, you can do like 5C~D or something to get an empty D press and it'll still work.

I'm still not 100% sure what these routes you refer to that only work off of 2C 5C are. Maybe you could type them out for me.

Kagura's not gonna be able to IB 5C and flashkick, it's a charger.

I never said I wanted to wipe it, I just don't think it should be the first thing on the wiki for combos because honestly people are going to start from the top down. I started with 2C 5C combos because of that wiki and it took me like three days to break the muscle memory so I could finally start stepping up my pressure game.

Anyone know if it's dropping on HK PSN as well like BBCP and UNIEL did? That's usually cheaper.

Everything on the wiki is opiniont o some extent. I can certainly put in a note that 236B~4A may have harsher proration in some instances and that 2C 5C may be better situationally. I still maintain that 236B~4A is a better general purpose launcher to learn though if you only had time to learn one. Beyond that it's still productive to clean up the wiki though because it was basically like: - 5A combos: Four arbitrary combinations of starters and enders - 5B combo: Same shit as above but with the 5A omitted - 3C combo: Rejump combo into one arbitrary version of above. - 3[C} combo: Web combo into a different arbitrary ender. It was basically a mess, is what I'm getting at. Ideally we'd be able to break Byakuya combos down into starter (236B~4A, 2C 5C, etc.), filler (A followup loop, B sideswap, etc.) and ender (A followup, rekkas > super, 623C, etc.) but that was getting too complicated when I tried to do it that way. Combo theory is nice but I think most people experimenting with Byakuya just want to see the one starter combo to learn to see how he feels.

I did leave it in there as an alternative route but with a note about why I think it's a bad route. You are correct in noting that the damage difference is negligible which is all the more reason to use the more stable route. It may make combos slightly tighter but short of having an extremely short starter like 2Ax2 everything should still work well within the boundaries of reason, even on netplay. Offhand other than 2Ax2 starter which will force you to drop the double web at the start I don't think any of the routes I use drop. If you know of any good routes that don't work with 236B initial launcher then let me know and I'll add them, or you can add them yourself. As 2C 5C in pressure, I can tell you from personal experience that leading with 2B 2C cuts off so many pressure options and that my pressure game expanded massively after I stopped doing that. 5C is a really, really good pressure tool because it's relatively not-unsafe on block for a C poke (-8) and you can cancel it into other moves super late. 2C is similar but it's more disadvantageous (-12) and you usually don't have a good low option off it since you've probably already used 2B as your starter poke. 3C/3[C] mixup isn't a very good mixup at all (I know some people thought it was amazing at first then they realized you couldn't half charge it like in Melty) both because 3C has really short range and also because the difference in startup and animation is so distinct (it's like a 15f low with no flash vs. a 30f overhead with a flash). Delay 2C vs. 3[C] I've found to be a much more effective mixup since it'll at least force them to stay awake and watch your animations and most likely be twitchier and easier to frametrap. At any rate in terms of "this is the basics, learn this one first" combos, I think 236B~4A is a much more consistent and easier confirm to learn than 2C 5C.

You can do 5C 236B at any range than 2C 5C confirms at though. In fact 5C 236B works from further away.

Mostly because it deals less damage and cuts off your routes and gives you less time to confirm. If you're doing 2C > launcher > 214B as your default route you're basically locking yourself into two confirm routes: - 5B 5C 2C 2B 214B, which requires you to get much closer to start with 5B, which on top of being shorter is also slower than 2B. - 2B 2C 5C, which uses up both of your good lows right off the bat and makes your frametrap with 5C really feeble since 5B probably won't reach, meaning you have to commit to 236B for a frametrap. You also lose the high-low 3[C]/delay 2C mixup off 5C which isn't that great but it still connects a fair bit for me. It's not like you can't work around it but why bother when you can just do 5C/2C 236B4A for an easier/more flexible confirm and more damage?

I'm going to go ahead and clean up the combo list on the Mizuumi wiki. It's full of unoptimized stuff and repeats the same thing like a billion times (it has the same combo listed multiple times for A, B, and C starters when Byakuya already has an optimal universal route that works even off 2A (2A 2B 5C 236B~4A). In particular I want to get rid of the 2C 5C route since that's a terrible starter for a variety of reasons. If anyone has any objections to that let me know.

CT was exactly as broken as it looked, i.e. horribly.

This game doesn't even have rising overheads and you can't fuzzy the recovery of your opponent's moves. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Moves may have extra proration added on the way up just like some have extra proration if they hit at max range.

Byakuya setup off 623C in corner: Whatever > 623C (end up in corner) > 214AAD j.214BB~delayB (press it right as they faceplant after popping out of the web) falling j.B. Sets 3 webs, j.B safejumps and possibly crosses up depending on timing. If you can get it to cross up and they try to wake up by mashing you can green shield and push them back into the first A web you set and take a free combo from there. The opponent can escape the safejump itself by not teching (delayed wakeup) but in that case you still get a free meaty. Possibly old but I just discovered it myself so I thought it was worth sharing.

2A 5C 214CC 6C j.236B j.214A 21[4B] 2C 5C (orb hits) 6C works on Eltnum. Deals slightly less than 623A ender but gives pretty good oki.

Is that more damage than just 2A 5C 214CC 6C etc.?

I would have to check that. Either way it's not super important, 5A/2A are 1f slower than the fastest jab which isn't terrible and they have good range so if the opponent is whiff canceling to rebeat pressure you can always put that out and you'll probably chatch them trying to dash forward or something. That's the only point I was making.

In that case we'd have to adjust all the other numbers up by 1 too. So the fastest jab in the game is 6f etc.