ajinkris

So...what's your secret?

Yep. That pretty much applies to all characters though, it just sucks that almost all of Venom's moves can be BBU'd because of their horrible recovery. That only means Venom players have to be extra careful when ball setting and how they choose to end their blockstrings.

Care to elaborate? @ landstalker Yea I agree. If you're mid screen though, P dandy Pilebunker works fine (I saw it in the Kami-Chan v N-Otoko vid).

lol. Obviously Venom is the most popular thread -.-

You are not alone good friend, fighting Ky is one of the most annoying matchups in the game. His zoning game is perfect for keeping Slayer away and his poking game is just perfect enough to beat him out too. You can't unleash all your oki either because of wake up Vapor Thrust. So what do you do? Inch by inch I suppose :/ If your opponent is fireball spamming, go ahead and 6P through them on reaction to inch your way towards him. Another way to approach is to be tricky with your double jumps and try to have Ky block a j.HS. This way, you can begin your mixup. Once you're in, stay in, but be wary of VT wake up. Honestly, it's just a pain in the ass. Everything Ky does stuffs you, and if Ky wants to keep you away, he can do it. However, it does take him quite a while to kill you. As long as you stay patient and block correctly, you can look for openings to BBU or start your pressure. They are few and far between, but 2-3 openings is usually all Slayer needs for a win.

TY SIR <3

Yea you can, it just prorates a crapton. (assuming they don't have lvl 3 wiggle)

6K is an awesome mixup tool, but it only gets you so far. People almost always expect it, especially on wake-up. Crossup dash doesn't really do much against seasoned players. If you really can't beat their reaction time, it's time to start using mindgames. Here are some examples: -6K feint: can definitely throw even the best players off. Gives you 2K, a throw, or a bite. -2K: if you spam 6K, it conditions your opponent to block high on wake up. Twitch and throw a 2K as oki to make them guess. -meaty 2S: has a deceptive amount of active frames (see kug's parlor trick thread for more info) -mappa feint: once again, if you end your blockstrings with something like 2S > mappa or just throw out mappas smartly, your opponent will be conditioned to block upon seeing them. Go ahead and mappa feint into throw, but use it sparingly because you will be punished if they see it coming. -dandy conditioning: dandy S mindgames are awesome. There are so many options...whiffing dandy S into HS, dandy S into delayed HS, dandy S into 2K, dandy S just to test the waters, etc. etc. I use dandy HS oki a lot. After a while, my opponents permanently block high (between that and 6K), so you can empty dandy and 2K. -dandy empty: once you get your opponent scared you can just K dandy right into their face and throw. -dandy FRC: is something not used as much, but if you can implement this into your game you're doing pretty good. Most common followup I see is a 2H to try and catch whiffed moves. -dash > throw: simple as it sounds. If they're scared of your 6K and blocking, send em to the ground. -bite: same deal with dash > throw. Hope this helps. Vary it up a bit.

No thanks The last thing the world needs is more May players. jk ^^;;

o.0. wtf. How come I've never seen that SL before. wtf wtf wtf?

If anyone cares, there are a lot of ppl that show up @ AI on Thursdays through Saturdays around 9PM. The competition is pretty healthy and the players are far from bad. Come join us!

Undertow eats a lot of Slayer's stuff since most of his specials are single hit. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

obv. BBU kk?

I'm not really into the blue outfits (like ex HS and ex P). I really like the K, S, ex D, and ex K (I think that's the grandpa one). I permanently switched to the K outfit though, because deci plays S and Zaido plays ex P.

RoB I couldn't bring myself to watch your videos because your Slayer is wearing the worst possible outfit. Actually, ex HS is just as bad.

LOL WTF ZAIDO. Ok besides the lol grammar, I totally understand what you're saying. To sum it up: -Slayer's initial combo + BBU is guaranteed damage - all options branch off from this point. -The DIFFERENCE, however, comes from what you decide to launch with AFTER the BBU and which aircombo you use to finish the entire sequence. -Regular launch options are 5H and 2D, but comparing the two is pointless because they will definitely result in different combos (and the 2D one you can't help because it's a distance issue, not a choice issue.) -The 5H launch gives options - mainly j.2K or sj.HS. -Zaido's example questions how to end the sj.HS -> j.D -> j.2K -> j.K (land) combo; the two primary options are to 5HS -> Pilebunker or 5P -> j.K -> j.2K -> j.D . -Zaido would prefer to use the 5P option because the timing is not as strict and the chances of messing up with a 5P relaunch combo are very slim, meaning the ensuing knockdown off the combo is near guaranteed. -In his example matchup, Ky, he says that while the 5HS -> Pilebunker finisher would do more damage, the timing is strict and difficult, putting pressure on execution - a flopped combo would mean letting your opponent escape a knockdown as well as future okizeme. -Zaido eats dinner with friends and has an epiphany. -Because of the difficult and somewhat strict timing of Slayer's combos on character specifics, Zaido believes that going for the simpler combo and ensuring a knockdown outweighs aiming for the higher damage combo and having a greater chance of messing up. -So all in all - Zaido is saying that going for a shorter combo and a guaranteed knockdown versus aiming for a harder combo and risking a flop aren't that far off from each other. Guaranteed knockdown means guaranteed pressure afterwards, but more damage from the higher damage combo is just that - more damage. However, you risk the chance of dropping that high damage combo because of the strict timing, which will probably cost you more in the long run because you did not get the knockdown. I hope I translated him correctly? Let me know if I'm wrong. His argument basically weighs the advantage of using simple combos to net a guaranteed knockdown versus taking the risk of failing at a more difficult combo to squeeze in an extra few points of damage. And I'm sure everyone in here understands why knockdowns are so important for Slayer that we'd have to have this discussion. In a perfect world we'd have perfect execution and always go for the high damage combo and always end it with a knockdown, but you can't always count on that, especially in a high-stress environment such as a tournament.

@MacArther Blunts I don't know if you're looking for tips or whatnot, but I'm just going to do my crit like I always do to help you point out things you can work on: First Match -Good riddance that HoS player needs to learn how to block your 2D's. I wouldn't spam it nearly as much because it's punishable. Definitely good for sniping, but not in that quantity. -Your Slayer is a tad disjointed. I saw several missed links (ie. 2S and 6K). -I can understand that you don't want to get hit by reversal Storm Viper, but definitely don't teleport so late nor so close, you ate a wake up throw several times. Second Match -Ok much better. You're using a lot more varied oki strategies and not spamming the same moves as much. I don't have many bad things to say about the second one (it's kinda hard to when Slayer just buttrapes HoS with two combos), just tighten up your game a bit and you'll do fine (I saw you drop two combos and perform a few unsafe moves).

You take me too literally >.< They also took out that panty shot of Jam in her IK I think. But yea, the removal of blood was like: "uh, ok." I can see how it can get excessive sometimes (like in Testament's IK), but now it looks like Slayer mistook his opponent for a hamburger instead of actually being a vampire.

I don't actually know, to be honest. The matchup is kinda weird. It's definitely in Slayer's favor, but if the Dizzy player makes absolutely no mistakes in her zoning game, we'll probably lose. I would like to tell you more about the matchup, since there's an ok Dizzy player here, but I don't play against him often enough. When I win I usually just hit him with a BBU or an AA into an easy 60-80% combo. When he wins it's cause I get careless and eat too much flying shit / short combos into ice spike (which does quite a bit of damage actually).

Pulsr plays pretty aggressively, but that's mostly against players that aren't near his level. He takes advantage of the fact that we still have a hard time blocking the mixup, being bounced back and forth by FRC'd EXE Beasts and dealing with the 2K / 6P shenanigans in the corner. One landed hit usually results in a Badlads loop, EXE Beat OTG combo, or combo into a skull. This doesn't mean that he actively tries to rush me down, he just looks for my mistakes and punishes dutifully and then begins his mixup if he has tension (which is easy for him to come by).

Where did the blood go? :*(

I am at the same point. Spending time alone in training mode against a stationary dummy really helps up your offensive game. You learn your pressure options, how to maximize damage, and get fairly comfortable with your execution. However, when you play against an opponent that knows how to block, FD, escape and zone you or poke you back, the story becomes different. This basically means you need to A) watch more videos and B) know your matchups. I play Slayer, and I know exactly what you're going through. I am terrible at blocking, I get impatient and prefer offense, I am often zoned because I don't understand how to crack certain characters. If you read your matchup forums and understand how to change your game versus certain characters, your game will advance by a TON. Gaining offensive momentum is all in relation to how well you outplay your opponent's character by knowing which moves stuff which moves and what counters what. Once your opponent is getting beat out left and right, he'll be afraid, and then you'll be able to unleash your mixup. All of this is easier said than done, but I guess the answer is just to play more and to really understand your matchups. I often lose to a really good player, ask him what I'm doing wrong, employ fixes the next few matches, and gradually start to win more. It's all about knowing weaknesses that you can punish.

I actually have three very good Pot players here (Mike Z, Ken I, Icetrap) and a few others that aren't quite up to par, but still hold their own. I generally lose to them, but don't really learn that much because the fight is so awkward all the time. I wish I could play them more but the only pot I consistently bash heads with is Ken I, and he's just a better player than me.

Pot is definitely one of our worst matchups. While Slayer has trouble against zoning characters, he has trouble with characters that beat him in point blank fights as well. Potemkin can basically punish virtually all of Slayer's move with a pot buster. I'm not qualified to tell you how to beat Pot (because my experience is limited, but I know there's a lot to the fight...like dead angling the mirror, backdashing through slideheads, etc.), but you are definitely not alone in your problems. Just give it some time, these forums are relatively new. ADDED - Original post by Villainous from the matchup forums: 5K is your friend. I don't think 6K is completely useless in this fight since it's throw invincible during part of it, you just can't use it as a non first hit mix up predictably, or on wake up. 2D owns pot's backdash for free since it has so many active frames. Let 2D hit late and combo with 2P 5P air combo for some good punishment. 2H is good as stated before, or basically anything that keeps him far away from you. I wouldn't whore 2H though because it can get beaten by hammerfall. 6K vs. Hammerfall is actually not that bad. You can hit him, land, recover, and still block the attack in time to punish. Of course not using other normals won't win you the match either, you just have to sneak your mix ups in randomly when they won't be expecting it and have a counter for it ready at hand. But really I've never fought a pot as good as Raekwon's so I imagine you know just as well as I do, all I know is from theory fighting and battling mediocre pots. Oh and one other thing....DEAD ON TIME WHEN YOU SEE SLIDE HEAD ATTEMPTS FROM MID SCREEN! FREE COUNTER! Or any other slide head setup that's not really really meaty like 6H. Oh also, It's Late out of D-Step is throw invincible. It's gotta have some sorta use in this fight.

Just wanted community input about this nightmarish matchup. I'll write a few bullet points and then add more as I receive more responses. Slayer vs. Testament is one of those matches that makes you sigh, mainly because Testament's entire game is focused on keeping you out of reach and beating you out in several situations...into pretty painful amounts of damage. I play against a pretty beastly Testament, and I can tell you, I don't win very often (that also has to do with my inexperience and lack of skill). I'm just going to bullet off things that I notice: -Random Dandies and Mappas will be punished by traps, so don't go around carelessly with those. -You can, however, punish Tree set with a Mappa if you're quick enough and 2D if you're close enough. -Your Ks and Ps will be crucial for disarming traps. Always keep your eyes peeled for the blown skirt and arm rip animations. -Beating Testament is a test of patience. It's important to get a knockdown because Testament has poor ways to deal with pressure. Once you have him under your mixup, keep on pressuring and don't let up. However, if the gap is large enough, discontinue your pressure, as Exe Beast will trade or straight up beat out almost everything you have. -As far as mixup goes, I like to stay grounded and aim for cheap, easy knockdowns. If you're feeling gutsy, you can dash through stuff like Exe Beast and throw him. -Saving tension for DoT is a common practice. DoT flies through and disarms all traps, so watching for trap-set animations becomes important. If you land the CH DoT, your chances of winning greatly increase. -Testament's mixup is vicious. Between 2K, 6P, 5D, and being bounced back and forth by FRC'd Exe Beasts, blocking will become quite the challenge. This isn't to say that it isn't impossible though, it just takes experience and focus. All of it can be blocked on reaction, just get used to the deceptive animations. -Testament's reach is generally better than yours and right out of your 5K and 2HS range, meaning you won't be winning the poke wars. Advancing slowly by disarming traps and catching him while in trap animation is your best bet at getting in. EDIT -- Added from the matchups forum (original post by POscrub): ============================== Page 03: Slayer vs. Testament ============================== -------------- Slayer Basics: -------------- Learning how to deal with and get around Testament's Zeinest (Webs) and Hitomi (Trees) is the basics of this matchup. Jumping in with a j. K on the way up, and a j. HS on the way down, the j. K will trigger Zeinests before Slayer is in range to get hit, and if j. H is blocked, the Hitomi will pass harmlessly underneath, this is the best way to approach them from the air. Against this tactic, Testament has the option of K Phantom Soul and 6K, early on, you can IB the Phantom Soul for additional tension, and double jump to avoid the 6K. Once you have the tension, you can try to look for an opening to turn things around with a Big Bang Upper, or a K Dandy Step -> Pile Bunker. Kenchan's comments: Slight disadvantage. Testament has the upper hand in general, but Dead on Time and Big Bang Upper are just too good. Slayer hits like a truck, so it's definitely still a fight. Picture: Against Okizeme that uses Zeinest, you can use K Dandy Step FRC to evade. ---------------------------- Exploiting Gaps ---------------------------- If Testament gatlings f. S or 2S into 2D, if you Instant Block (IB) the attack before the 2D, you can counterattack with P Dandy Step (214P) -> Pile Bunker. If he does 5S or 2S into 2H, doing the above to get a Pile Bunker is effective, however, countering with Big Bang Upper also works. If Testament gatlings any normal into H EXE Beast, you can reaction back K Dandy Step -> Pile Bunker to punish. However, if he did 2H -> H EXE Beast, you need to IB the 2HS. Picture: Opening up gaps in Testament's gatlings using Instant Block to make him wary is important. ------------------------- Aim for the Dead on Time: ------------------------- If Slayer manages to land a CH Dead on time, that single hit might very well end up deciding the outcome of the match, so aim to punish an opponent for making careless autopilot decisions. Some common situations that result in a CH, if Testamnet does any gatling canceled into Set Zeinest or Set Hitomi, if he just tries to set a Zeinest in a neutral situation, there's many attacks that cancel into 2HS and 2D, so if you see any of those attacks, get used to entering the motion for Dead on Time after blocking them, so that if he cancels into a Set, you just need to tap the button to punish. Note, if Testament decides to Set a Hitomi (Tree)in a neutral state, the animation is quite hard to see, so it's not something you aim for often. Picture: Look to attack when he tries to Set something. When you have more than 50% tension, you should be priming the super motion, all the time. (ED note: ALL THE TIME ) Note at the bottom: Slayer's Big Bang Upper can trigger a Zeinest and still be capable of hitting, so use it with good timing to bust through attacks that hit high, like Testament's f.S, 6K, and 2H. That's all I can think of for now. Please add more!