lunaris

i'll start off with a more general question/statement this time since more people seem to be posting. when practicing as litchi, i highly suggest either practicing against lamda or hazama once you start getting her combos down. the combos and methods of executing them on those two character should work on the rest of the cast, not not the other way around. the reasons are that hazama is comparatively difficult to hit with x>jc>j.c>kote>falling j.c>5c, and lamda absolutely requires crouch barrier to pull off the itsuu loop(in addition to having the type of air hitbox which can't be hit by combos like 3c>2b>2c>j.b>j.c) if anybody has any other observations on character specific difficulty in combos that practice routines should accomodate for, please mention them. i don't really know what some of you mean when you say the "2d combo", but if you mean the attacks after 2d into staff2, it's dependent upon where the staff is relative to the corner. for the specific combo mentioned, if the staff is close to you and at the proper distance from the corner, 2d>staff1>j.b>j.c>staff2 should work just by holding 9 after 2d and doing j.b as fast as you possibly can. you can delay the j.c a fair amount if the staff needs more travel time for its distance from the corner. good stuff, it's great to finally have some discussion going on here with more than just two people. i don't know if you're being serious or patronizing at certain points, but i'm not going to worry about it. the videos help in discussing this stuff, by the way. i made a mistake in writing the full screen combo. it's hatsu>chun, not haku>chun. this actually should make it full screen, because the hatsu>chun combo travels farther. and to be clear, i want to note that the point of doing dash>crouch barrier>2c[m] isn't just for the damage(although 2c[m] is superior to 6c), but also because it works on the entire cast. you should find that if you try to do 6c for an itsuu rep in many situations, it will fail on lamda without crouch barrier as well. when i do j.c>crouch barrier>2c[m], the input i'm doing looks like this: j.c>66>1+AB>pause>2c[m]>62314d just noting that for clarity. getting down the "ideal" i wrote and cutting out 6c may not seem like much of an improvement. it is, but it's not because it does a lot more damage. the reason is that it gives a lot more meter by extending combos; the damage benefit is not as large. tsubame alone gives 11 meter, to give you an idea. 4kote>2c>6c>3c>2d>double j.c>6d is also a good(and easy) ender for the itsuu loop from 5b[m](in fact, this and the tsubame ender i wrote are the two general daisharin/kokushi enders that you can go to for almost every combo(although they are not always optimum)), but it won't work or will be worse/harder if you use 6c in the combo before that. i didn't go into much detail earlier, but the biggest reason to cut out 6c in your itsuu reps is twofold; litchi has many methods of ending her combos with supers for increased damage which cannot be done using 6c, and combos are extended, which gives a substantial increase in meter gained(in addition to about 400+ damage depending on the combo). earlier i made it sound like the best reasons to use it were "easier enders+damage," which are both true but not really the best/whole reasons to cut out 6c. not sure how much of the above you didn't know, but i like to write things out for other people who may be reading and don't know. but who's gonna read this wall of text willingly? haha. don't take this the wrong way, but NEVER use an alternative combo like this when an ippatsu combo is available. it's a good combo for people who haven't gotten the ippatsu combo down, but ippatsu should always be used when available because it has positive proration. that combo would be a good one to go for the kill with though, since it is easier than ippatsu(to help ensure that you don't mess up, you should always go with the easiest combo if both combos will kill your opponent).

i understand your problems with difficulty. you should definitely note that in your videos if you are aware you're not doing optimal combos, however. not sure if i stated this in my other post, but i'll do so clearly now, not just for you but for anyone reading who doesn't know: which jump to use for which ender: Daisharin ender: 9>8 if very close, 9>9 if farther away Kokushi from ItsuuC: itsuuC>8j>j.c>6kote>j.c>3c Kokushi from 3c: itsuuA>4kote>dash>3c>2d>8hj>double j.c>x(depends on proration) Kokushi from 3c alternative: 2c>6c>3c>2d>8hj>double j.c>x(depends on proration) following the above should save a lot of trouble in wondering why your combos are dropping sometimes. i'll try to keep this simple, although it's kind of complicated and doesn't make up for solid testing. itsuuB combos do slightly more damage than itsuuC combos in most situations(ItsuuB average: 3.6k, itsuuC average: 3.5k). when you can avoid having to use 6c twice early on in the combo, itsuuB combos do somewhere between 200 and 400 more damage than itsuuC combos(avg 4k). you can avoid using 6c twice in two situations: either when you are in range to use itsuuB>3c, or when you are close enough to the corner to use dash>barrier>2c[m] after the ippatsu portion instead of using 6c. itsuuC combos are always better in the corner for a variety of reasons. itsuuC can then easily combo into ippatsu, it doesn't have to use 6c or 3c early, etc. but, sometimes itsuuC won't reach and you have to use itsuuB>6c. the only other things i'd like to note about it is that itsuuB combos are significantly more difficult than itsuuC combos for relatively little difference in reward, and itsuuB>3c is fairly proration specific(will break on ippatsu even if anything is added before 5b[m]). also, meter gain definitely does need testing. and yeah, spaced 3c>iad>j.b is pretty beastly. works well against people who like to spam/space with backdashes(like most lamda players).

yeah... that can be difficult as sometimes it goes under the opponent. the only reason to use it is if the enemy is too far for dash j.c, and you can remedy that by only doing 1 hit of 5c[m], although it sacrifices about 150-200 damage and a small amount of meter. dash j.b>jc>j.c works as well closer to the corner, but if you use it in the full screen combo it makes it extremely difficult to end the combo(and 6c whiff is dangerous to say the least). i'd say that if you include itsuuC combos in the guide you should make a note saying that it's generally safest to combo into itsuuC as fast as possible in all situations. if you can hit confirm it and you have the range, it's usually best to do 5b[m]>5c[m]>itsuuC or even 5b[m]>itsuuC(depending on the combo). for example, you're probably not going to be able to do a complete full screen combo with j.b[m]>j.c>5b>5c>3c>itsuuC due to proration, but you could do it with j.b[m]>j.c>5b>itsuuC, and this might not be intuitive for a player without a good amount of experience.

as to 1, i don't think it really matters how much damage the combo does at the end of a curse if it puts you back into curse mode. granted you might not want to start a reset like this off of something with good proration or with a lot of time left on the curse, but there are many setups which don't prorate well in the first place and there are definitely faster ways of getting the necessary proration for the super than what was shown in that video. as to 2, you can easily link super straight to 5d. i can't really test it easily, but i suspect a resetted super would be able to combo into a 5d>jc>j.c>dive>etc 100% curse combo. i could see using this as a reset/general combo route if you're at a large life disadvantage going out of curse. a good example would be if you're near death and hit with 2a near the end of curse, as combos from 2a don't do much damage(without a lot of curse) and prorating the combo enough to get the super to reset would probably just be a few 3aa reps. whatever the case, it seems pretty situational since you would have to be able to time the super for the curse's end very well, especially given how much damage arakune can do even with just 1 or 2 reps of a combos off of his other high/low mixups(2c/j.c) in curse. in fact, i just tested it, and all it takes to prorate enough to reset the combo using the super is 3 3a reps(one with 6a>2b added, one with just 6a added). the exact combo is: 3a>6a bug>3a>6a>3b>6a bug>3a>wait>3a>6a bug>3a>wait>3a>6a bug>3a>6a+5c bug>jc>super it's fairly fast, and you could alter the speed of the combo to compensate for different lengths of available curse time by using c bugs or simply prorating with 3a instead of adding in extra attacks like 6a and 2b. keep in mind that the super adds curse on its 14th(last?) hit, so if you time the reset properly you start out with 20% curse on the resetted combo. good thinking, dacid, although it looks situational. if people can get this down, it should give arakune a way to refresh his curse if he takes awhile in catching his opponent.

i can't remember the last time i used 5b 5c 3c itsuuC chun, so i agree on it being obsolete. the only additions i can make are: 5b 5c 3c(omit when possible) itsuuC [d] dash j.c ]d[ haku chun 6c(1) (the one i use from full to midscreen) 5b 5c 3c('') itsuuC [d] IAD j.c ]d[ staff1... (useful for when you're too far to hit with dash j.c after itsuuC) 5b 5c 3c('') itsuuC [d] dash j.b jc j.c staff1... ('', but easier) as a reminder, i'll mention that you can use an IAD j.b to put them into the corner if you are very far from it, but with the haku chun version of this combo they should end up in the corner no matter what anyways(and i think the haku chun version does more damage). an example of a total full screen combo using what i've written above would be: 5b 5c 3c itsuuC [d] dash j.c ]d[ staff1 haku chun staff2 6c(1) itsuuA 4kote dash 3c 2d staff1 dash j.b j.c dash 6c 6d daisharin(kokushi ender also possible off of 6c(1) this should take them all the way to the corner. you can do double haku chun with this as well, although i question whether it's advisable since the timing of the second haku chun may depend on the staff's distance from corner and isn't lenient. as a final note, the 3c[m] IAD(crossup) j.b[m] combo is worth mentioning in that it has its advantages; if the opponent decides to burst after the crossup, then you're not put into the corner(and you are with other choices).

some of the combos you're doing are a little suboptimal(sometimes by 400+ damage+meter). if you want i can tell you some better stuff(although looking back on it there aren't many combos yet). just as an example, the first combo you do in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Misiv-4xOnY could be: 5b>2c>itsuuA>6kote>haku>hatsu>riichiA>ippatsuA>7jc>j.d>j.c>dash>crouch barrier>2c[m]>[1 itsuuA rep]>4kote>3c>2d>8hj>j.c>j.c>6a[m]>tsubame>3c>kokushi (~4800) may have slight character specificity which can be fixed by omitting 6a[m] at the end, or doing 3c>2d>9j>j.c>8jc>j.c>tsubame instead of using a double jump. 2 things i'm going to make note of regardless: 1. i'd advise not getting used to using 6c to do itsuu reps. due to same-move proration, it prevents you from using some higher-damage/easier enders(including the super ones if you plan your combo out poorly). 2. when doing itsuuC>jc>j.c>6kote>j.c>3c>kokushi, you want to be doing two 8 jumps, not a 9 jump(i believe i saw this in the vid i linked). someone correct me if i'm wrong, but this is generally essential in making it so that your opponent can't roll behind you. i am assuming the 4kote>kokushi was a mistake, if there's some reason for it please inform me. it's good to have someone recording videos of the combos, especially since your recordings are fairly high quality. i'm not trying to discourage you.

yeah, it's possible that you've seen players attempt it before, although the only talk i've heard about fuzzy guards i've read on the jbbs is related to kokushi/daisharin. i think the real strength of this fuzzy guard isn't the fuzzy guard itself but the fact that if the opponent knows it's coming, it's highly unlikely that they will sit there and take it, which would make them predictable. releasing the staff early will counter a lot of things the opponent may try to pull, depending on how soon they see it coming(if they react to staff activation it should be too late for most options). and, perhaps i wasn't clear... i've said about 3 times so far in our discussion of staff return combos that 3c/6c>staff2>chun>5b[m] is by far the easiest way to combo on staff return, and the reason i haven't looked much into the jab method. it's just not possible with haku>chun because of different recovery on rekka chun. not trying to be rude here, just being emphatic since it's very good; not only does it do more damage, but it's easier than trying to use 2a. maybe i was forgetting to mark the 5b with [m] when i was talking about it in my earlier posts. as to ippatsu, i don't know if you mean midscreen or corner, or if you mean the spacing on it or the general execution, but i think every aspect of the combo is simply a matter of practice and experience, although it's not especially difficult if you sit down and get a feel for delay timings by doing combos at various distances from the opponent. i'd say more than anything else it's necessary to be able to confirm how long you're going to have to delay haku>chun as you do 6kote(or soon after), which is mostly a matter of experience. i also use 6623 for 6kote every time except in the corner and after certain attacks(air throw>2b[m] comes to mind). i agree that this is definitely the safest method of nerfing litchi while guaranteeing her viability(as i don't think she warrants a gigantic nerf) aside from straight up nerfing her attack damage(not proration), but i still wouldn't be surprised if they tried to shorten their length a little either as it is a common(universal?) consumer complaint. either way, i hope you're right as trying to change litchi's actual combo methods could easily have unforeseen consequences.

yes, similar combos have been posted in this thread already. just hit ctrl+f and search the pages for 4d. to be honest it requires a lot of effort(to be good, maybe not to win at an average level) and you can still use many of the CT combos with the new litchi, just with some variations. you'll probably feel like even more of a fool if you put a ton of effort into learning litchi's new stuff and the patch completely changes her such that you'll have to relearn everything. it's very possible that litchi will be nerfed or changed in a way that if you try to learn her combos in and out, in 6 month's time it won't apply any more. litchi and bang are the most likely characters to receive nerfs, and one of the things most widely considered a problem with litchi is the length of her combos(therefore they are very likely to change). if i followed what my wisdom told me i would simply be practicing a sub until i knew more about the patch...

yes, with some qualifications; overall it's mostly usable for the same purposes it was in CT, but it's a little overshadowed by newer developments. it's no longer part of any ideal combos, but it's usable for decent damage through CT combos that still work(and is easier at longer distances, which may be important if your enemy is close to death). it does still give frame advantage on its first active frame. hope that answered your question. i figured you were mostly asking about its frame advantage and usability in combos. i don't think it's slowed down, but i don't think it ever had much of a purpose as an overhead anyways. i'll test this out today. also, i don't know if this is known or not, but i found a fuzzy guard setup in the corner a bit ago: [litchi above the opponent, staff in or near corner] j.[d]>j.C>jc>j.C>chun>]d[ during chun's activation>...(combo differs here depending on whether the staff was in the 5d or 2d position) (from 5d)5b>delay>2c[m]>itsuu loop (from 2d)staff2>6c/2c[m]>itsuu loop i think the max damage i could get off it was ~3.5k? seems viable as long as you can position yourself right(would work after a 2c jump cancel) since releasing the staff early and going with a normal blockstring is a counter to simple anti air, run through, and jump-away strategies. my main concern besides setting it up is whether it's punishable if chun is blocked; since the timing is a little tight, anyone familiar with the setup should be able to IB chun and/or staff2 easily if they predict your overhead.

not quite the same as it's only a 3 frame buffer. i just checked the mook and reconfirmed. when i try this combo i hold down the second 6 and then hit 3a(although it feels more to me like 6>3a). and as i mentioned earlier i find the easiest method of doing combos like this to be xx 3c>chun starts>staff2>chun hits>5b>2c>itsuuA, but i don't think you can do that with haku>chun as chun's rekka version has more recovery.

i guess practice is all there is to it. i recall testing out that specific combo(i know i've seen that video before, but i could have sworn it was listed as chou playing...) and it wasn't too hard so long as you made sure chun hit soon after staff2. only other thing i haven't already mentioned that i can think of is buffering the dash. i don't think there's a special trick to it besides using the right combos, so it'll probably just come with practice, but it'd be good if we could calculate what combos it's not possible to do off of(like maybe 2a>2b>haku>chun).

the only thing i can really advise is that it's far easier with certain setups, and to try doing chun on reaction to seeing the staff returning(as then it will hit just after staff2). you probably know that chun is actually 4 different moves in terms of frame data, but in case you didn't, i'll mention that it's a lot easier to do 3c/6c>chun(or any aerial drive hit>chun) than it is haku>chun(not sure if you can even dash for haku>chun). usually i just use 3c>chun>5b[m]>2c[m] if i'm comboing during staff return; i've got so much to work on that i haven't gotten around to practicing chun>2a, so i just use 5b/2c>6c during staff return as a cop-out if i don't have time for 3c. seems like more litchis have been incorporating haku>chun into their combos lately, shounen in particular. not sure if i've seen anyone use it twice yet, although it's not exactly common for litchi to have that spacing. shounen is doing some unique stuff as usual in his recent videos; i've never seen another litchi do staff2>itsuuA in an itsuu loop, anti-air j.b[m]>j.c[m]>itsuuA, dash under the opponent after a j.c CH(since CS started), etc. i also wanted to share something i noticed about daisharin: it has frame 1 aerial state. not really sure how useful this would be, but it might provide methods of escaping some character's(carl in particular) blockstrings without taking much damage, which is good if you have a life lead and the character can easily make comebacks with pressure vs ground if they guess right. the best example i can think of is against carl when nirvana is attacking or going to attack; if you use daisharin at this timing, you should be able to escape if you tech correctly since nirvana won't be available for a combo even if the carl player does react and switches to doing an anti-air combo(which may be a lot better than risking losing a sizable portion of your health+taking oki to his pressure if he guesses right at some point). i don't recall this being available in CT since daisharin had invincibility. seems like you'd have to be creative to get much use out of it, but the upside is that if daisharin doesn't go off, this costs no meter(and if it does you should be getting a daisharin combo since it does have invincibility for 8f after super flash). to those who don't know, you can't do this with a jump since jumps do not have frame 1 aerial state, but beware that it does cause CH status(which may not matter depending on the character and attack).

not that i know of. it works on lamda, and i can't see it any reason for it to fail on other characters, so i haven't thoroughly tested(i don't have any other competition anyways) yet. you can make my version of the combo considerably easier by using 6c(1)(instead of 2c[m]) before itsuuA and adding haku at the start(haven't tested if you can add haku if you use 2c[m]). not sure about the meter difference, but the damage difference is small with haku. but remember it's more of a combo part than anything else. it works off of a lot of starters, such as 4d[m], 6d[m], 5a>5b>3c, j.c>5b>3c, 3c[m]>itsuuC>d, any 5d aerial hit, etc. with your back to the corner and a little past midscreen(with some adjustments). the combo you posted looks pretty good, but i prefer the haku>chun method because any combo which relies on j.c>staff2 is substantially more spatially restricted and harder against lamda than other characters. also, haku>chun can be delayed a considerable amount of time, making it usable from full screen all the way to slightly past midscreen. as to the 4d[m] corner combo, i'm fairly certain that in the corner, an ippatsu combo is always going to do more damage than any other option since ippatsuA has positive proration. for example: [corner]4d[m]>6kote>j.b>haku>hatsu>ippatsuA>7jc>5.d>j.c>dash>crouch barrier>2c[m]>itsuuA>6kote>5c>2d>staff1>j.c>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>ender max i've done is ~4k, the reason this is good is because it allows 2 reps of itsuuA, unlike most 4d[m] corner combos involving her rekkas. i'm not sure what you're talking about by the H.H combo, but i'm going to assume it's something like this if it's a midscreen 4d[m] combo using haku>chun: 4d[m]>4kote>j.b>5b>3c>2d>staff1>haku>delayed chun>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>j.c(dash optional)>djc>staff2>j.c>itsuuC>j.c>4kote>falling j.c>3c>6c>6d 3367(daisharin ender possible) if you add in the ender that i described in the third to last paragraph in my previous post, be sure to note that one of the reasons it's strong is because you can use 8 for the super jump at the end, which positions you such that if you decide to end in 3c>kokushi(or just kokushi), the opponent can't tech roll out because you're blocking the way. here's a more complete notation: X>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>8hj.c>staff2>falling j.c>6a[m]>2c[m]>tsubame>3c notes: also possible when using itsuuC in the corner, subtracting the itsuuA>4kote>3c. 2c[m] is sometimes not possible based on proration. 8hj version appears to be somewhat character specific; tsubame/falling j.c doesn't seem to connect on litchi, haven't tested carl(or anyone but lamda/litchi). but, 9hj can be used as well, although it allows them to roll out of kokushi. this is the highest damage ender i know if you can't use the 6kote>2c>jc>j.b>j.c>etc ender. as a final note, you may want to add in that it's far easier to use 2c instead of 5c after itsuuA>6kote against some characters(litchi especially) when doing itsuuA corner combos. EDIT: i'm pretty glad i posted this here, because from your info on your corner combo i found that you can combo directly from j.b to 3c if you use 4kote instead of 6kote after 4d[m], which is better due to less proration. so now, the combo is: 4d[m]>4kote>j.b>3c>2d>staff1+haku>hatsu>chun>2c[m]>same as listed before (now 3347) i also tested ryuuisou after the tsubame in the 4d[m] combo, and the combo then does a little over 3700. it would do ~4120 if you could connect with 2 ryuuisous, which might be possible if close enough to the corner after tsubame. i did find that double ryuuisou combos are possible in this combo if the combo has enough proration to end in the itsuuA>4kote version(so, you'd do itsuuA>ryuuisou>dash ryuuisou for ~800-1k more damage at the end depending on proration).

you said to pm, but i feel i have to post this in case it hasn't been seen. excuse the long post. hopefully i'm not posting something already well known... awhile ago in this forum i posted something about a full screen(back to the wall) combo from 4d that i hadn't seen anywhere else(including the jp wiki, but maybe it has it now). i've developed it into a standard combo part. general formula: anything>staff1>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>5b[m]/2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>hatsu>chun>6c>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>6c>6c>ender (many adjustments possible, such as haku before first hatsu, 6c(1)>tsubame ender, etc) comparing it to the "normal" combo part(...>j.c>j.d>airdash>staff1>j.c>staff2>6c>itsuuC>5d>jump>j.c>fall>6c>6c or some variant), it does considerably more damage. off a 6throw with your back to the wall, my version does 2900, the "normal" one does 2100. i'm not sure about the difference in meter gain. looks pretty ridiculous in writing as it's basically a fullscreen itsuuA loop, but it's usable off a number of different things. most importantly it's an easy go-to combo if you see your drive attack hit an airborne opponent as hatsu is fairly fast and covers a lot of area(i.e., you simply run at your opponent and use hatsu once you see they were hit by your drive--this works well against opponents who like to pressure you with aerials in the corner). the middle and ending parts can be adjusted based on distance from the corner and starter(from 6throw, for example, it has to end in tsubame iirc), but the basic staff1>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>5b[m]>itsuuA part itself works up until about midscreen based on how long you delay chun, so it's a fairly versatile combo part and does high damage. the combo(or combo part, at least) listed in the paragraph above is worth including at some point in the guide. it seems to be her highest damage method of comboing with your back to the wall out of many of her staffless attacks with the staff nearby, and more importantly is an easy solution to the conundrum of how to combo reliably out of an anti-air drive hit. anyhow, unless people agree that this is reasonably major, i'd try to keep things more significant(or less wordy/complicated?) than that. for example, i see you're missing a high-damage ender/combo part(itsuua>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>hj.c>staff2>falling j.c>6a[m]>2c[m]>tsubame) and the easiest method of comboing out of kokushi musou(kokushi>2b[m](has equal proration to 2c)>etc) in the corner. i'd imagine there's a lot that simply hasn't been listed because there's so much to list; your work on the list thus far is appreciated. i don't think i'd know where to start. as an example of a complete combo, i'll post the highest damage i've found off of 4d[m] with your back to the wall(it will differ slightly from the general formula given above): 4d[m]>6kote>j.b>land>2c>3c>2d>staff1>dash>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>hatsu>chun>staff2>6c(1)>tsubame (~3280) there are easier methods as well for a little less(200~?) damage, but this is about 400-500 higher than the highest damage combo listed on the jp wiki(and that ends with jbcb hatsu chun). using this, i can get 4000 off of random 6d[m] hits as well(itsuu cancelled or not).

i'd post combos but i'm not really sure how much you're accepting/how often you're willing to edit in. also, correct me if i'm wrong but 4d and 6d are still unlisted among litchi's normals. i think it would also be beneficial to write about the frame advantage/disadvantage of 6d and 4d in their move description(with itsuu and kote, respectively, factored in) since it's not easy to figure out for a new player(or even most intermediates) and yet it's really valuable information. also, posting a link to her hitbox data(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NXCHdCWIHM) seems like a good idea. i don't think you can do ippatsuB>6b, or even ippatsuA>ippatsuB, on a cornered opponent and keep them in the corner unless the staff is actually a fair distance from the corner. in other words, that combo doesn't work if you're close enough to the corner for 6kote to put your staff in the corner. or is there something character specific about this that i don't know about? at the very least it's an important note to make. and not to nitpick, but you can add in a 6kote 2c after itsuuA. it's has some significance because it allows players to choose between 4kote and 6kote on the following j.c(since the staff is put closer to the corner/ground before it).

many of hazama's chain combos require precise spacing to get off 3 chains. also, a lot of times there's just too much proration to get 3 off. if you're having problems with it even after the bnb, it's most likely just that you need to practice. if you added in extra moves during the bnb, then it might not work. generally, you dash forward before doing 2b. that's pretty much all there is to it, but the timing may take a bit of practice. it's not particularly spacing specific, but you'll generally only want to do it when you're not in range to hit with 214d~c, and depending on spacing and character you can combo the 5c into jc>j.c, 2c>4d, or 4d directly.

somewhat agreed. if a guaranteed punish, ib jyayoku is a more rewarding option, but there are a lot of times it's not guaranteed. i'd imagine you understand all this, but for the purposes of the people reading this, i'll list them: 1. when the enemy will not be at enough frame disadvantage for a guaranteed punish after IBing their attack(i.e. they could simply not do anything and block an ib jyayoku) 2. when the enemy has 50 meter; it's too easy to RC during screen freeze as a counter to jyayoku counterattacks 3. when the enemy has done a jcable attack; i'd have to test this but i'm pretty sure they can simply JC during screen freeze and block. 4. if the enemy can cancel their attack into an attack with invincibility(this is particularly bad vs tager). the reason counterassault is so much better than ib jyayoku in these situations is purely because of the screen freeze. if the opponent even dimly expects a jyayoku, under any of the 4 above conditions(and probably more) it's easy to counter IB jyayoku. for the most part, if the enemy has 50+ meter, in order for IB jyayoku to work they have to have started another attack by the time you activate the super. a CA, on the other hand, pretty much has to be expected and a counter must be executed before they can see it. i didn't bother looking at whatever combo you're talking about, but 5000 damage is a respectable amount off of a command grab. and if it's going to kill, it's worth the meter. jyabaki is the starter to some of hazama's strongest combos in the corner, and does decent damage midscreen(although you need to 50 meter to combo from it midscreen). they've been posted in these forums before, but just in case they're hard to find, i'll mention the start of the combos and hope you can figure it out from there: [corner] CH jyabaki>5b/5c/236236b>... [midscreen] CH jyabaki>rc>5d>... well, if nothing else, it looks very different from the usual lows, so there's a possible element of surprise in it. it would be better if the startup looked more similar to 6a. other than that, not too useful as generally when you can chain 6b you can also chain 3c or 2b, but it also breaks primer. and not to anyone in partiuclar, but as to the ressenga stuff, buppa's videos show that you can't really count it out as part of hazama's mixup simply because it's technically reactable.

i disagree with you on one or two of your points if i properly understand what you are saying(correct me if i don't). i have a feeling i'm not following you somewhere, but i'll attempt to explain why i don't agree that hazama has only one layer/generation of mixups in his blockstrings. if you say millia has multiple generation mixups because she can do a high/low twice in a row(or was the point that she can follow up a high/low with a crossup? i.e. two different types/broadening types of mixups rather than simple consecutive mixups), hazama can do this, although it's not as powerful as millia's. it mostly lies in his 5b/2a>2b blockstring. hazama can do mixups from 2a itself, but if we're using 5b as the starting example, we've acknowledged that it has mixup potential. but if hazama chooses to do 2b in his 5b mixup, then he can create another mixup in a variety of ways: by linking into 5c, which allows him to jc for one of two different kinds of crossup attempts(depending on spacing) and also allows him to do a high/low with either 214d~a or 3c(or maybe 214d~c once they're used to seeing 214d~a), by chaining 2b into 6a/6b/3c, or cancelling 2b into jyasetsu/doing. i don't think he can effectively throw off of 5b>2b without simply waiting for its considerable recovery to end, but i suppose since i've mentioned 2b>5c>crossup that an empty jump>throw or air grab is worth mentioning. if what you're saying relies on the mixups being unmashable, then yes, most of hazama's mixups are mashable(in fact 5b/2a>2b or 2a>throw are probably the only mixup options that aren't) if predicted, but he does maintain frame advantage on block(so long as they aren't instant blocked) as long as he doesn't go for 6a/6b or 214d~c. i've probably misunderstood what you were saying, so please explain more if so. more discussion doesn't hurt when discussion is as infrequent as it is in the first place.

i'd imagine you know already, but since this could mislead a newer player, i'll mention that 6d is always hazama's highest damage option with 100 meter(if someone knows better, correct me). the jyayoku>6d[~aXn]>623d>3c>jyayoku>214d~c pattern does more damage than other combos, and you use it with or without FC. i believe he meant when hazama is in the corner and the enemy is not, in which case his statement wasn't incorrect. i'd have to test to make sure, but i believe combos involving 6d first do more damage when hazama is in the corner than 214d~c combos(they definitely do with 100 meter), and they also put the enemy in the corner(if that's where you want them). you weren't replying to me, but yes, it is pretty important. it's an important skill as well to be able to tell when 6d~a will knock them out of jyakou range and when it won't(due to either angle or height), because it happens pretty often at greater heights, and also vs certain characters(like lamda) after 214d~c corner crossup combos.

the supportive words and bump are appreciated. yeah, alaska is pretty much as you see it here. we have a couple of serious players, but new people who actually stick around and have the drive to improve are hard to find to say the least. i'll probably end up trying to do some kind of event when BBCS is released and work from there to make use of good timing(and maybe some people will be wandering around dustloop closer to that time), but the tournament on BBCT's release only had 10 people, so i'm hesitant about getting my hopes up.

thanks LK. glad to be able to provide something helpful. also, i need to be more specific; the delay i mentioned in my post during the 5c>d>j.c part of the combo is from the d>j.c, in case it wasn't clear. the delay is very slight, but as far as i can tell, it's sometimes necessary for lamda(who i mainly practice against). haku has same-move proration, so it wouldn't work out as well as the already-established combos. i tested it anyway, and it drops at the second ippatsuA(which is what i assumed you meant by simply riichiA). either way, forgive me for being anal, but this probably should have gone in the CS Litchi info thread since this is dedicated to the itsuuA loop.

good post, and i have yet to really read it all in depth, but there are a few things you didn't mention: some starters for the itsuu loop will require you to do 7jump>j.c>j.d>j.c. in particular, a [corner]5b>5c>3c>itsuuC combo should require this due to height. vs lamda it's required(and helps vs other characters) to crouch barrier for at least a moment as you get to the ground after 5c>d>j.c. sometimes it's possible/necessary to run before you barrier. it'd help if you mentioned which times it's possible/helpful to delay in this combo, particularly during 5c>d>j.c, and maybe itsuuA. also, isn't it 6b staffless before itsuuAs, not 6b[m]? you listed 2c[m]/6b[m]/6c(1) but if i remember right you have to start the 6b before you get the staff. for the future, listing possible enders and other methods of getting into the combo(any corner combo with an early falling j.c while the staff is near you, for example) would be good. although, that might make the thread too long, heh. i'll edit this post with anything else i can remember, but you covered mostly everything and it's also well-formatted. good work.

i didn't say that; it was simply mentioned here by someone else first, so i gave worldjem7 credit. either way, i wouldn't be trapped here if i was. it's understandable that you want to keep information separated. i personally think we'd be better off if we kept information more organized via more threads, but on dustloop "less threads with more information" seems to be a preference. i will bring up the point, though, that the [meterless] tk saber combos in general are different from CT combos as well in execution, and that tk saber is related to this combo because there are some setups into it from tk saber(anti air 2dd>tkCS>loop and 236b>5dd>236c combos come to mind first) that aren't possible without it. also, since the tk saber loop can be done without the jump buffering method, it is a matter of preference. since either method actually works, the only thing i can argue about that is that if you don't use the jump buffering method, assuming you can't do tk9 saber every time, you're just creating an extra step for yourself(the run). it's easier for a number of other reasons as well, but i can't use those to argue against preference because "if you do the tk and run right it doesn't matter" counters them all.

i highly recommend you include the technique of 6a>9>j.214d(buffering the jump cancel before inputting saber as opposed to TKing) here(mentioned by worldjem7 in the combo discussion thread). it's so much easier than TKing that i see absolutely no reason not to use it. being able to consistently do "tk9" sabers makes the combo much easier, as you both don't need to run and if you ever mess up and do a high saber you can cover yourself with 5b. this method also prevents you from ever getting a high jump(i'm fairly sure high jumping affects the height at which your saber comes out). it'd be great if we could get a list of how many reps are possible off some basic starters(throw, 236d, 214d, 236c, 5d>236b, 3c, anti-air 2d and 6a, calamity sword, 5b, 2b, j.214d, etc), but i suppose that's asking for a lot. at the very least i can confirm more than 5 reps off of a throw for sure; at least 4400 damage. if you ask me, it'd be good to include tk saber>5d combos in this thread's purpose as well, by the way. getting it consistently requires a decent amount of specific knowledge, as does knowing whether it's possible in a given combo or not in the first place.

yeah, i was just curious if there was some reason i didn't see her highest damage combo pattern written down. my question wasn't just about tsubaki install. for the tsubaki install combos, you're talking 2-3k damage vs 4-5k damage, sometimes for 2-3 charge and mostly easily hit confirmable. i'd imagine that it's not going to be a rare occurrence that it's the difference between killing someone and having them live. most of them end with you being able to charge after j.214c anyways, which should get you at least 1 charge back depending on the situation. but they are definitely costly to do. 50 meter and charge meter doesn't come cheap, so i know what you're saying.