Kristoph

I knew you would bring up these other "execution requirements" (which aren't actually execution requirements, they're just other physical aspects of the game that you're introducing for the benefit of your argument). None of this justifies FRC difficulty, though. Obviously it would be very difficult if not impossible to take a fighting game with hitconfirming, delaying moves for spacing, and movement, and to then remove those aspects of the game and somehow bandage up the remains to the extent that the game is still just as deep. Instead of manipulating the terminology to your advantage by saying that somehow "difficult FRCs" fall under the same umbrella as "every obviously-fundamental aspect of all fighting games, ever" simply because they can both be described as "execution-intensive," you should try explaining why the "difficult FRC" flavor of "execution" itself is important. edit: yeah, basically what EternalLurker said was correct. You're pointing to one "flavor" of execution difficulty, an interactive one, and lumping it together with one that isn't interactive in FRCs. I accept that simply making FRCs less difficult would have a potentially adverse effect on the game's depth and/or balance, but you haven't given anyone reason to believe that difficult FRCs are so important that making them easier would make the game worse even if the game were properly rebalanced afterwards (and no, I'm not literally suggesting that GGAC should be modified, I'm just saying that it could reasonably be done).

None of this explains why fighting games should have high execution barriers. You're just saying that it makes less people play the game, and those that do take longer to get to the actual two-player "game" part because they're so busy practicing. None of that sounds good at all to me. I mean, hard work is important and I have nothing against physical sports that encourage people to be physically fit and whatnot. I don't see Guitar Hero-esque button pressing with extreme precision as a very good parallel to that, though. In any case, I've witnessed these sorts of discussions circulate for years, and never have I seen a terribly strong argument in favor of high execution requirements improving the actual depth of a game. I mean sure, it would be stupid to go back and mess with FRC windows in AC without considering the possible imbalances that could cause. But if you're talking about a new iteration where balance adjustments are going to be made either way, I just don't see how you could convince me that having extremely tight FRC windows is the only way to maintain the same depth and balance that the mechanic had in AC. And Smash (at least Melee) has very high execution requirements.

why?

copypaste the link here: http://mmcafe.com/nico.html

Anybody know what Jin's specific matchups are looking like?

Blazblue is on the official lineup.

I think it's fine that GG isn't on the poll. Now more people can vote for Melty Blood, which actually has a chance of beating Marvel.

Females hardly play any fighting games, though. It's not like "wow, demographic X sucks at game Y, we should give them their own side tournament." It's "wow, demographic X is hardly even integrated into the community at all, but they probably could be, so let's help them get integrated and give them their own side tournament." I don't think your scenario would really be "degrading" anyway, per se. It's less degrading and more, I dunno, "why the fuck would you even care whether white people can play Marvel or not in the first place?"

you guys are breaking my heart, Millia is the character I've always wanted to use so I was pretty happy to hear that she's apparently not too rough execution-wise. Not that I'd normally mind, but Wisconsin isn't exactly a wonderland of GG competition and I'm not too desperate to put a ton of time into the game when I could focus on stuff that has online. Anyway, thanks for clearing things up, I might consider Testament should I actually become motivated enough to pick the game up.

How technically demanding are Millia and Testament compared to the rest of the cast?

The world doesn't revolve around Dustloop User: Klaige. if you feel that my post doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you. (in reality you're just misunderstanding what I meant by that post in the first place, but it wouldn't exactly accomplish much for me to clarify when we seem to mostly agree on everything else anyway)

I just got frustrated by some of the stuff I was getting hit by (I should have said this earlier, but sorry about that). IIRC you caught me jumping before the animation, or just without barrier, with 6c quite a lot (edit: ok watching the video I ate some asshole ice resets too, oooof, that still makes me weep). This made me want to claw my eyeballs out because that's apparently a pretty terrible habit of mine, but against other players I imagine it would be pretty disastrous. edit: Hey, and critique my Jin too! >_> editedit: well except for the blatantly retarded stuff like random icecars/bursts. i can see that for myself lol

Has anyone suggested this? Pretty much the only qualms people like zeech tend to have with technical games like Guilty Gear is the arbitrary execution requirements that only serve to heighten the execution requirement of the game (and not enhance any other gameplay element). Nobody here is saying, "well shit guys, wouldn't it be great if Guilty Gear were easier, at the expense of it being a worse game overall?" I don't know why anyone would interpret it that way either. I think a lot of people get overly-defensive over this sort of subject because of the amount of time they might have put into the game.

One potential reason I could see for avoiding "standardized motions" is that it helps players differentiate between moves. Let's say you play two characters; one of their anti-airs sucks, the other one is pretty good. If they have different motions, I'd argue that it would be easier to avoid getting into the habit of using the bad anti-air (which I guess could happen if someone got really really used to using the good anti-air with the other character). Obviously this is probably very minor but I just wanted to mention it to offer some sort of upside to unstandardized move motions, besides "conservative hardcore players might complain about it!"

Arbitrary, prohibitively-difficult execution requirements are almost never beneficial to any significant extent. it's almost insulting that you would consider Guilty Gear's depth contingent on something like a tiny FRC window. I'm not saying that there aren't potentially legitimate issues, like balance, that could potentially come into play, or need to be addressed, as a result of (sloppily) lightened execution requirements. "Maintaining the gap between high-execution players and not-so-high-execution players" simply is not one of them. I think it's also rather silly that you reference Soul Caliber yet ignore HDR; if that game is hindered by its lightened execution requirements (and not the "collateral damage" some of it may or may not have caused, not that I'm aware of any), I'd love to hear some examples. Guilty Gear would be fine if it were made more user-friendly; it's only when that actually interferes with the rest of the game's design (like it arguably does in Blazblue) that it becomes a problem.

I go to school in Wisconsin but I live in MN so that's where I'll be during Winter and Summer breaks in all likelihood. I play Blazblue and now HD Remix (badly), shrug

Does not seem to work on Rachel, oh well.

oh that is just plain sexy, good stuff.

in the new gamechariot videos there was a Jin (not sure who) who kept tossing out 6Cs against Taokaka. Like he did it 3 to 5 times in a couple rounds or so, but it only connected once so the rest of the Jin/Tao matches I saw (I've watched a little over half the videos) he only tossed it out one or two times. anyone know why/how effective that move generally is in this matchup?

yeah timing the 5C late makes things work perfectly, thank you.

I'm actually having trouble with this combo too, but for different reasons than you. I can get the air dash portion down fine, and learned to do this by setting the training dummy to "Jumping" and just practicing everything after the 6C to get the timing down. It doesn't seem to really matter how high your opponent is but I think the sj.C timing is somewhat particular; practice will tell you what you what the exact timing is, but you should probably be as high as possible at the sj.D to give you as much time as possible to get the air dash in. my problem with the combo (in training mode against Jin) comes after the air dash and if anyone can help me that would be wonderful; basically everything after the air dash, every time I've connected this combo, has kept the opponent in the air, causing the b ice car to whiff. Is the timing on the j.b and/or j.c just strict, or what, because I literally have never connected this full combo (though if I skip the 6c and do the rest of the combo on a jumping dummy I've pretty consistently connected with everything). I also have had some minor problems with the j.b simply not coming out, for seemingly no reason (it actually seems like Jin is too busy "colliding" with the frozen opponent for a split second for the j.b to come out, but I dunno). It doesn't affect me that often (sometimes I end up just skipping the j.b entirely and finishing the combo anyway, sometimes it throws me off and I drop it though), but I'm still somewhat curious if anybody has an answer to why that happens.