Isorropia

It's possible to rapid cancel the clash and jump. She also could have clash cancelled into the reversal super again, which would have beaten 720. Also clash cancel into bat if she has it.

If I understand BB's mechanics properly, you can't actually use advanced input to help with the j.D, since BB allows you to cancel pre-jump frames with attacks (so if you press 7D you'll get 5D and not j.D). But maybe there's some interim period....I'm not sure. The extra damage and heat is pretty negligible so I just use 6B>2C anyway though.

5D CH prolly. And Osuna, I use 5A 2B. Works best as oki after corner knockdown. If you time the 5A meaty it's safe from 8f+ reversals (jin, litchi, makoto, basically most people who aren't ragna) and the 5A 2B is long enough to hitconfirm a 2C on hit or move to further mixup on block.

If you hit from a decent range, you can go 2D CH > 6A > 3C > 2B > collider etc etc. Can't be point blank, but if you're at any sort of distance that's possible.

Woah. Really? Thats actually...exactly what I wanted. This means that Tager can now do, from a decent range: 5A > 5B > 3C > 5B > 5C > 6A > collider > Bgadget. For a bit under 2k dmg. What makes this good is that it works at further ranges than the current: 5A > 5B > 3C > 2B > collider > Bgadget. Hopefully this change makes it to the patch...

We said the same thing about volt charge>720 back in CS2 loketests, and look how that turned out. The tools tager gets given each iteration seem to be the least useful implementation of the idea possible. Point in case: fatal counter ground/wallbounce on a 70p1 move that shouldn't be getting counterhits.

Chances are that charge>sledgehammer will only work against slow, heavy-hitting attacks. A decent number of chars also have the option of cancelling into a DP (probably on reaction, but have to see how fast the hammer startup is from charge). If it at least forces them to block then I can see it being sometimes useful if you have meter and want to reverse momentum (sort of like a counter assault really). Actually, now that I think about it, this new volt charge>hammer sounds like it works very similarly to counter assaults. Have to see how frame advantage/combability etc works out for it though.

Tetra, while moves with more active frames are certainly easier to hit with, every move in the game can be done meaty. 3 Active frames is a fine amount to meaty with, you just have to learn the timing (base it from a visual cue on their bounce tech). I just meaty 5A everyone until they learn to block on wakeup, then start mixing up after that. j.B is a good meaty if you're sure they're going to neutral tech and block, but unfortunately in blazblue when you try this, either they'll roll under you, down tech into AA/DP, or you wont be able to hit them meaty with j.B (remember how slow tager's jump is). Also if you aren't timing it as a safe jump then jumping attacks on someone's wakeup are just gonna get DPed.

Just a quick note, you can't combo off a normal hit AA 2A. Needs to be counterhit. Although to be fair most of the time you can get away with bluebeating 2A>collider since people won't be expecting to get anti-aired there and tech, but...yeah. 2A is nice, just be aware people like ragna can outspace it with long range j.Cs.

But his astral isn't a command throw, it's an unblockable attack like collider, hence why it can hit aerial opponents. >.>

If noel does the airthrow tech > dash j.A, the j.A connects before you land on the ground, so grounded supers are out of the question. In that situation, tager's j.A will stuff her j.A (purely by virtue of starting earlier, since she has to airdash into hers). If she isn't doing it with perfect timing your j.C can counterhit or sometimes just avoid the j.As (But even in testing I can't get it to work in one way consistently). Apparently the counter to these is to do Thor, but I've never seen it actually done in a match so I just autopilot j.A \ to get out of it. Edit: Just saw where it happened in your match brice. They airdashed too late after the throw tech. Also in that match, use 6A after gadget vs noel. It beats all her drive buttons and backdashes for free. If she starts wising up and does something like jump forward to beat 6A then go back to 5A. Edit2: On further testing, j.C from tager will always counterhit noel airdashing in after an air throw tech. However, her j.D will beat both tager's j.A and j.C. And yeah, thor beats both, leads to easy 5k (maybe more, I was just doing ez noel combo).

The full notation for the combo he posted is J.C/J.D>(5C/6A)>collider>j.D whiff>j.2C>2B>2C>collider>Bsledge>Gadget the j.2C there is just before the 2nd collider, it's not where the combo ends.

You might want to modify them for some stability. Eg. when I hit a counterhit j.D I usually go 6A > collider rather than straight collider because there are some ranges/angles at which the collider won't catch. Less damage but more stability.

Nah, 6A loses to lows, just like volt charge. But like he said, it absorbs noel's 3C because it's considered a projecctile.

I'm not sure why you're taking all of this so personally, it's quite possible to discuss the ins and outs of a fighting game matchup on the internet without getting agitated. Now, after testing it seems you can't jump cancel as early as I thought (it's 1f later), so it's actually +11 rather than +12. (Could even be +10...bang's j.B hits rising no gap, j.C has a gap, on testing.) Now, the +11 isn't 'imaginary'. It's there. It's fact. It's not as useful as +11 when both people are grounded, but I never said it was. What I said was, that bang is able to move significantly before tager can. No matter how you try to spin it, this means that bang has more options available in this situation than tager does. You seem to be assuming that to jump cancel means to jump forward and hit with a falling aerial attack. This is not the only option bang has available to him. A few examples of what bang can do are: airdash j.4B crossup. airdash backwards escape. TK Dnails. Double jump falling aerial (double jumps will get above the hitbox of 2C and AC, but still allow them to hit 2C and AC out of their recovery). Now all of these can be punished (except Dnails), but what I am suggesting is that they cannot all be punished at once, and by the same method. This means that tager has to choose how to act in this situation, with options that have varying risk/reward (just like every situation in a fighting game). It would only be considered 'unsafe' for bang if the overall risk/reward for the various options was heavily stacked against him, and I don't believe that is the case here (with this specific example of 2B jump cancel, but also for bang's pressure game in general).

Your snide comments are well appreciated, but if you have never played against anyone decent then I understand why you think the way you do. You just don't seem to understand what it means to jump cancel a move. To elaborate: Bang's 2B, connecting on the first active frame, has 2 more active frames + 20 recovery frames, and is -6 on block. This means it inflicts 16 frames of blockstun. Bang can jump cancel as the move connects (anytime in the recovery, but lets assume he does is as soon as possible). Allowing 4 pre-jump frames, bang is in the air while you are still in blockstun for 12 more frames. In other words, by jump cancelling, bang is at +12. So, It's not that simple. If it is for you, stop playing scrubs. If your opponents are +12 in the air and get hit by tager's 'anti-airs' around 30f after they were able to move, it's the player that's failing, not the character.

I don't get why everyone's throwing around this 'oh his strings are unsafe, unless he jumps'. Every single character in this game has 'unsafe strings' unless they XYZ. Eg. tager's 2C and 6A are -22 and -27 on block, they're so unsafe! Negative frames for an attack are meaningless if they have some gatling/jump/special cancel which they will be using 9 times out of 10 in that situation. Bang's 5A and 5B are 0 and -2 on block which is good enough to stop and dash in afterwards without getting reaction punished. And when he feels like it he can jump cancel D nails to create a +6 situation (if done at lowest possible height). I just think that bang's pressure is better than you guys are giving it credit for. >.>

Makoto's dp only leads to damage from a close range counterhit, and it's a risky proposition anyway since her dp has such a terrible hitbox (whiffs vs meaty 2Bs from people who aren't tager). So I still feel like Ragna's dp is more threatening. Oh also (on her wakeup) tager can safe-jab makoto's dp. (Last active frame of 5A + recovery frames is < dp startup frames). That's always fun. I actually picked up makoto as a sub for matches that I find too difficult as tager. She's fun. Just wish tager's pressure could be as solid as hers. >.>

Oh, it's still in Bang's favour, but where tager is concerned, 4-6 is 'even' in comparison to his worst matchups, in the sense that winning against an equally skilled opponent is a possibility. Also like always you can just 360A ashura, feels pretty satisfying.

Unfortunately that's only until they learn. I've done it to our kune player enough (let bad combos bluebeat), and he'll just do a 6A to knockdown, let up in bugs for about half a second (of the 13 seconds they get each curse) then call bugs in such a way that roll/down/not teching gets you into a full combo, and neutral teching lets him run his bug mixup. It's not pretty. >.<

It's not a move that you're using under pressure (13f is just too slow), it's a move you should be using in footsies. It has 5 active frames, and the last 2 of those active frames have an amazing hitbox. http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager/4D.html Basically as noel runs at you, press 4D (Adjusting timing based on spacing, you'll get a feel for it). As she tries to run in and 5B/2D/3C/whatever it is that noel runs in and does, if the timing is right she should get counterhit by the 4D.

In the early days of CS2 japanese tagers were doing: Mag B+C > 623C whiff > jump forward j.B crossup. It doesn't work on everyone, and it doesn't even hit meaty....but it is hilarious however.

The most obvious solution is likely the correct one: R-1 is a really good player and in that tournament he played better and made more correct guesses during the match they played. To suggest that it is 'serious fail' to lose a matchup in your favour suggests that tagers should never beat any character besides noel (since it would be 'serious fail' on the part of the opponent). Please think before posting comments like that.

Late neutral tech as 6A whiffs > massive free combo for them. Not worth the risk imo.

^^That. Click on 360B and you get taken to http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager/360A.html and manually changing it to 360B leads to nowhere.