Isorropia

Ok so I've done some testing on valk, and I think I've covered the char specific combos: 360A: 262D and 5B 4D both connect after. 360B: Could not connect 2B2C collider midscreen. Fatal: Works as normal. Magnetless optimal combo: Could only get a double collider with AC > 6C > AC. j.c>j.b and Bsledge > 2B don't connect. Also an additional note is that in tagers optimal BnB, magnetised XX > AC > AC whiff > 6C > j.2C > 2B2C etc at the 6C j.2c, you have to be careful. If you just do it normally it'll whiff, you have to jump decently high/superjump or the j.2c won't hit valk.

Basically the way it works is, the opponent is still in a red beat combo for 3f after you're able to move. Since they're in a red beat combo, which has down status (like after collider, 3C), you can gadget. So after a gadget finger, execute another one roughly around when their feet hit the ground. You have to be careful though, since it'll ONLY catch jumps/backdashes, if they're ballsy and attack, well, gadget finger sorta doesn't have a hitbox....

If by potent you mean damaging, yes, if by potent you mean a good/reliable option, then no (Noel excepted. >.>). As others have said, throwing out these moves after gadget finger you're mixing yourself up as much as the opponent. And ending your combo with a wrong guess > 4k combo from the other guy usually isn't something you want, especially as tager when you need to keep momentum going. On 5A, it's pretty much all I ever use after non RC gadgets. Since from there you can usually set up your normal blockstring mixup. For instance, Gadget > 5A > 2B (it whiffs) > 360B. This is similar to 360A after gadget, but it beats mashing, blocking, jumping (they jump and block 5A, then fall into the 360). Essentially I prefer to have mixup occurring in the chaos of a blockstring instead of an incredibly telegraphed situation. Also 5A stops litchi's 7j.B from being a free escape, you can hitconfirm: CH 5A > 5C > 6A > standard combo for 2.5k or so. tl;dr: Using 5A then mixup tends to yield more reliable results overall. Even if gadget gives you nothing else than a blocked 5A, it's better than them rollteching away for free/not teching at all.

Yeah....no. Bad idea. 2C is 15f startup. GF leaves you at +3. That means any attack faster than 12f will CH you cleanly. Virtually all 5/2As and 5/2Bs are less than 12f. Not only that, you can escape 2C cleanly by just backdashing after GH, jumping backwards, etc. If people are putting out >12f moves in a -3 situation, then you just need to start playing against people who aren't horrible. >.>

I think he's referring to a vid from a SoCal tournament around 5 months back where MIkeZ astraled this poor hazama in both games of the match they played. Might be on the arcade infinity youtube channel, not sure.

It seems to catch quite a few characters, and appears to work because of the tech proration at the end of the combo allowing them to tech earlier (single collider > collider whiff > 5B > collider does not catch neutral tech for most chars). Another similar one is: Double Collider combo, whiff Collider, 6C pause collider which catches all 3 aerial techs (if they tech at the first possible moment). The good thing about these is delayed techs can't mess with them as much as there's only a brief hole before a (blue beat) collider will connect. After the blue beat collider though, neutral tech lets them drop to the ground. I haven't managed to get the semi-pull effect you get after something like spark > 5C6A2C > ACx2 > collider > collider whiff

Anything > spark volt > 5C > 6A > techtrap collider Will also catch neutral techs as they float back past you. But as heavy mental said...late techs.

What? 720 is 0f after the superflash, unless they already pressed their C button during your 5f of startup then you win. And if they did a 720 in those frames...well you not pressing C is hardly going to save your life. Also 360A molests 720, feel free to use it whenever you think they'll 720.

If arakune's staying back and using a lot of clouds (in order to randomly get that version), charge up a spark. Then once he gets the forward cloud and starts trying to do this strat you're talking about, having spark volt charged should stop it cold.

To be honest it probably is worse than the original, but my reactions are fail and 360/AC wasn't working out for me so I starting trying to find something that I could do with lower risk/reward.

Uh, if you include variation in tech time as an escape method (you're counting it as two, in fact) then the '50/50' becomes escapable in the same fashion, and hence would cease to be a 50/50. And the reason I'm saying it is because the 360/AC techtrap tends to not just have people escape it, but score a free CH combo of their choice if you guess wrong. (Guessing being required since if you wait to see what they do, backtech + do something aerial will escape collider).

That GF RC >6A>2C uncombo......hmm, I'll have to try it, but I always feel safer doing GF RC > walk > 5A > 2B uncombo, feels cleaner somehow, and tends to roll people who try to dp just as you walk up to them. And must try that techable AC ender, I've been trying to figure out what stops neutral techers there besides wait > 5D. Also I don't think it's been mentioned, but there's a variation to the: (NT, BT, FT) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 6B>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 2B 360/Collider techtrap. Since that one's more or less a 50/50 it can be risky to attempt. I use a variation where after combos like that, or even after 5A>5C>3C (with mag), I do 5B, then a slight delay, then 5D. On backtech they're pulled to your head height and it gives an unblockable collider, and on neutral tech there's (unfortunately) a hole big enough to mash 5A but people tend to block it. On no tech it gives some flat damage and more mag. Forward tech escapes it though. However I've had some issues using it in real fights, not everyone techs at the first possible moment, if you 5D before they tech they fly over you, if you 5D too late they aren't high enough for unblockable collider.

Yeah, when I said 5C I wasn't actually meaning you hit him out of shark, I was meaning that unlike 5D he can't shark it on reaction, he can only shark 5C on prediction and therefore you can bait and block. (Unless they're like, japanese or something)

double GF seems quite useful against people who's first instinct is to escape, eg lambda arakune mu, but I don't get how it will influence the matches where people have easy get-out options. What I mean is, people are saying 'no more tk hotaru' for hakumen, but can't he just uh....try to tk hotaru every time mindlessly? All landing the second GF does is add extra magnetism, or go into gold burst level damage if you RC it. After the 2nd one you can't GF again, and he just...does a tk hotaru again? (Assuming that he is aware of how the setup works. If he hasn't seen it before he might panic and try something different, sure, but if he knows about it, it just...doesn't actually seem threatening)

It's an odd match to be sure, but, yeah...I pretty much do the things you just said. >.> If he's doing fullscreen j.d then I just charge a spark, when it's full I start walking forward, if he touches j.d/2.d/6d you can sledge on reaction to get in at this stage. Once you get him magnetised you can actually zone him, but as you said, be aware of shark. I find j.d tends to be safe-ish from shark due to landing canceling recovery, otherwise empty jump to bait, etc. Using 5C>5D instead of raw 5D seems to help with not getting sharked as well, from my experience vs the arakune I play against. If they aren't familiar with the matchup, collider when they wall teleport is oh-so-funny. :S Also with jumping in you can totally do it, his 5C is slow, if he does it early you can elbow, and if he does it late you should be able to just j.b, whiff through it, land and block.

While you said that, whether or not you were complaining/questioning is more likely to be determined from the general tone of the post. I mean, if I took one of the angrier posts in this thread and added "not angry, super happy and I love you" at the end it wouldn't actually make the post any less of a rage post just for having a (potentially contradictory) disclaimer. >.>

I'll admit my first posts in this topic were more strongly worded than was wise, but I must wonder how it feels to look down on people for looking down on people. >.> (light-hearted, not serious, btw)

To be fair, you could have made a topic titled "Help against tager" and asked for some assistance in dealing with tager. Instead of that you titled a topic "what makes tager 'fair' " and continued to assert and insinuate that he was a cheap character. This is why people have perceived you to be arrogant. There are multiple ways to ask for information and I hope you realise the flaws with how you chose to go about it.

Against Bang and Litchi, at high level, that's how it is. As litchi, just use your pokes. That's it. Tager has no method of approaching you. If he jumps at you use 2C. If he sledges/walks at you, let it whiff and punish with anything. As I've said, 6B, 2B, 3C, j.C are great options to hit a tager trying to get closer to you. If you see his spark meter is full, play cautiously, most tagers will shoot it at fullscreen the moment it's charge, so just block it. Then when he tries to pull you in press 6B for a free counterhit combo. If you score a knockdown, don't get careless and rush him when he wakes up (you'll eat command throws this way), keep your distance and do a ranged poke when he gets up. Likewise if he knocks you down, be aware of his throws - most online tagers fail at combos so jumping out should get you free from those situations (naturally if they aren't terrible they'll do proper pressure on you, but hey that's another thing altogether). In fact, jump straight up and do an aerial as their throw whiffs for a free combo. To an extent yes. But it's worse for tager due to his mobility options. Most characters have a way of forcing their strong points onto the opponent, eg most zoners can attack with projectiles from a distance. Ragna and other rushdown characters can get into attacking range and start a blockstring to utilise their strengths. Tager cannot. Tager literally has no approach method, nor does he have a method to get the opponent where he wants them sa.fely like most characters can (assuming neutral situation)

Ignorant drivel doesn't count as legitimate questions I'm afraid. Like I said, instead of complaining, actually get better. If you've only been playing for 3 days, then trying playing for 2 weeks and see if it's as insurmountable then. "I outplay them at every corner" - I highly doubt that. You seem to be under the impression that when you're winning it's because you're outplaying them, but when you're losing it's because ZOMG TAGERS OVERPOWERED. Them taking such brutal advantage of your mistakes would seem to suggest -you- are the one being outplayed. As already explained the projectile isn't terribly much use in combos as tager's proration is horrible. If they're using it to extend a combo, they probably could have done the combo without it and saved the spark for later. Oh, and please don't ignore all the actual information that I'm giving to you under the 'wah he's telling me I'm bad' impression you're getting from my posts.

He said basically nothing but an insult because frankly, that's what your posts are deserving of. You just said that you play litchi (the best/second best character in the game) and you claim that tager is a threat (overpowered even) at full screen. Wow. Honestly if you think that litchi vs tager is in any way a difficult matchup then you should really spend your time becoming not-terrible-at-blazblue instead of coming onto the forum and claiming that easily countered moves are somehow overpowered. 'Abusable projectiles', I mean, are you kidding? Spark volt takes ~20s to charge up and is one use only. If this move hits you at fullscreen, it's not because the move is overpowered, it's because you weren't blocking. I mean my goodness. You play litchi. When he 'pulls you closer', or 'command dashes' at fullscreen, try, oh I dunno, pressing a button. 6B, 2B, 3C, j.c. All of these have far more range than tager can dream of. But really, I guess if you think that tager can do "a lot more then most characters can do" at fullscreen, then there isn't even much point in telling you how wrong you are, because it's unlikely you'd be able to comprehend what is being said, given your apparent understanding of the game.

5A>5B>3C>5B>41236D Tends not to work, the 5B picks them up off the ground and then they fly over your head after the wallbounce instead of into the astral. Astral works from 5A5A5A > 5B > Spark, or anything > AC > spark

Tsubaki's strings are like clockwork, when she starts the hits are going to be pretty much in the same rhythm every time (slight exceptions are things like 6A, 6B). So just IB and 360A/720. Her only jump-cancellable normals are 5B, 6C and 3C, so just be aware of those.

If she's playing right, Rachel will either be airborne, or out of range of sledge. In both these scenarios, if you sledge she'll just hit you in the recovery frames for a free combo. If you're using it at such a range it will hit her, then she could just poke you out of it instead of throwing projectiles. As for tempest dahlia, feel free, trading hits with that to kill her is always fun. :S

However, one thing to note about 2C that helps it is, while it only has head invuln from frame 11, tager is crouching for the move's startup until it hits. While this won't help against deep jumpins or like....haku's j.2c, in general terms it helps it to be a good aa by having him duck under aerials. Also, you guys are being pretty critical of that tager. Can't we all be supportive? >.>