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[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
I think I've been able to get 214K, 5P, jP, into air combo midscreen, 5P into cS might work though depending on the distance. And CH probably allows for more combos although I haven't been able to check that. -
[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
I'm back from the loketest in Osaka, haven't had time to play a lot, but I wanted to share a few things about Axl and Ky as I was able to play them for about 5-6 games each. Sorry if I say things that were already mentioned. - Axl : He's more or less like in Reload, except the chains seem to work like in AC, although as Elvenshadow said the vacuum effect indeed feels a bit weaker, but it might just be me. He still has his old Axl bomber and loops can still be done in the corner with TKs. I've been able to go up to two reps but I've never played Axl so much pre-accent core so I'm not very good at doing old-school bomber loops, it might be possible to do more. As you could see on the command list, he lost his HS DP as well as his old DP P counter. However he gained a new stance performed with 63214HS that allows him to enter a state in which he can perform mist finer-like chain throws. P allows him to throw his chain downwards, K towards the middle and S upwards (maybe I'm mixing up P and S though). As long as the stance isn't cancelled with HS, or by taking a hit, Axl can continue to throw chains at will, without having to input the stance command again. It seems to be quite effective as a zoning tool, because chains go far and come and go relatively fast (not mist finer fast of course but still kinda fast), however they are only one hit and I haven't found a way to combo afterwards. This is pure speculation, but it might be possible to combo on CH, or maybe the chains are cancellable into specific specials or supers... I haven't had time to try all that, but I feel like there must be something more to this move, if it's only useful on zoning then I don't really see the point since Axl already has a solid zoning game even without this. His new super is two hits, pulls opponents close to him and leaves them in a looong stagger state on hit. At least my opponent stayed in stagger state for quite a long time and I was able to combo into pretty much anything I wanted. 25% YRC on rensegeki is alive and well and time slowdown allows for a really easy pick up which simplifies combos started from afar. - Ky : If I'm not mistaken he retains all of his moves from reload, and gained some very cool new stuff in this version. People probably already know that from the previous loketest, but just in case, his dust (new animation), jump dust and his new 236D move allow him to place some circles that stay on the screen for some time and transform Ky's projectiles into huge "swords". On regular stun edge moves (236S and j236S/HS) circles transforms them into some one hit swords that appear super fast and lift the opponent in the air for some time, which allows for a combo if you're close enough. Regarding CSE (236HS), circles transform it into a huge sword that stays on the screen for some times and does several hits, also lifting the opponent to allow a combo. 236D is kind of a knockdown move that allows you to place a circle at the same time. So it's really good to end a combo with it, and then use a boosted CSE as an okizeme method. However, 236D blows the opponent back kinda far, so this oki is only efficient when you're not too far from the corner. And also the sword comes out so fast that you need to wait a little bit before performing CSE, otherwise it will hit OTG. Ky also earned a new 3HS, he basically dashes forward quicly while hitting with his electricity charged arm in an uppercut. The overall feeling kinda looks like Jin's 6C in blazblue, except of course it's not possible to dash cancel, at least from what I know. It's possible to cancel into a special afterwards, however I haven't found any move yet that allows to cancel into 3H, there might be some but most moves definitely aren't cancellable into it. The main use I found for this move so far is for comboing after the boosted stun edges, as it allows to close up and hit pretty fast. So provided you have a circle out, you can go stun edge, 3HS, DP for example. 25% YRCs work wonder on both CSE and regular stun edges, as well as on the 236236P super (should have tried to shoot this one through the circles by the way, forgot to do that...). In this regard, 2D into stun edge YRC combos are now really easy and effective, even more so since the slowdown effect allows you to get close to your opponent while he's still lifted up in the air. Only bad thing so far, greed saber (214K) seems to have shorter untechable time, at least no matter how hard I tried I was unable to combo into cS without the opponent teching. I was only able to do 214K, 5P, cS, 2HS, DP in the corner. Oh and fun stuff, Ky can actually lose his "hairpin" during the fight under certain conditions I haven't been able to determine (but probably something like getting beaten up pretty hard), and when that happens he stays with long hair until the end of the fight, even during the ending pose! That was really great IMO. -
[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
I don't think this question was asked, but do Axl chains pull in and have 2 hits like in AC/AC+ or are they back to reload state? I plan to drop in quickly at Osaka's loke test tomorrow by the way, hope there won't be too many people... -
Well, K followup can work sometimes but if your opponents are used to deal with it, stuff like this can happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5pSEV40DMm4#t=26 P followup without FRC is also punishable although you can get away with it most of the time because it's probably the least used of them all, so most people do not expect it. Anyway glad to hear you got the info you were looking for.
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Nothing wrong with using fuujin in blockstrings indeed but it must be stressed out especially to new players that you can't use fuujin in typical blockstrings (fuujins covered by butterflies are an exception) like you would use other pressure tools in the game. You indeed see famous players succeed very often in scaring their opponents with fuujin, forcing them to block FB Rin, having them eat CH nagiha or having them staying on block waiting for a followup. But the same players also sometimes get their K followups punished in their recovery, or get hit out in their no followup fuujin's recovery because their opponents read them. Most of the time, using fuujin on a blockstring is basically like setting up a win/lose guessing game on your opponent, you still have the upper hand overall because you get to choose what followup comes next, but you're not immune to being countered by opponents who have good reflexes and/or can anticipate correctly. In comparison, think about a gunflame FRC used on block for example, if you FRC you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to continue your pressure if the opponent blocks and if you hit, you get a free combo. If you look at fuujin into FB Rin, the thing is overhead and has huge frame advantage, hurts like hell if it hits but the delay between the fuujin and the followup leaves the opponent time to act and to counter you. So if you're too predictable you're basically taking a risk, a risk that you don't have with the above-mentioned gunflame FRC. Fuujin into nagiha FRC is totally safe to use on the other hand but just leaves you safe on block. Basically if your opponent doesn't get hit, you used 25% tension just to stay "safe". There are many other moves that allow Anji to stay "safe" without even spending anything. Long story short, no one is dismissing fuujin as a legit blockstring tool because the variety of followups it has opens possibilities to mess up with the opponent on blockstrings. But in order to use it properly one really needs to consider the risks and the potential rewards of each option and use them accordingly. You can't always expect your FB Rin to allow you to continue pressuring your opponent.
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I agree with the above, I would just like to add a few things regarding the use of shitsu in blockstrings. Shitsu is usable in blockstrings in vanilla AC, but you need to be very careful about the distance at which you're doing it from the opponent and the move you're using right before. For example 5K, 5S, 5H, shitsu is going to push your opponent too far away, making the escape easy. If this really works on your opponents, then they probably don't have much experience against Anji because this is really easy to escape with a backdash or even a jump. Actually 5H is probably the worst normal you can choose to shitsu into because of its huge pushback. 5S is usually the move you'll use to shitsu into because it provides decent blockstun and doesn't push the opponent too far back. Be aware though that no matter the move you're using before shitsu you need to be careful of two things: - That your opponent is still in blockstun while he's about to block shitsu or at least that he just has a few frames to escape if not your efforts will be totally worthless. - If your opponent blocks shitsu, make sure that he is not too close from you. At point blank he'll be able to block the first hit of shitsu and then punish you before you can recover. Most of the time it's actually better to just prepare yourself to block after throwing out shitsu on a guarding opponent and see what the opponent is doing from here, because some opponents may try to punish you before the butterfly falls down. So if the opponent tries to attack you can just block and watch them getting punished by the falling butterfly and if they just block you can continue pressuring. In case you timed your butterfly perfectly it can be very hard for the opponent to escape or try a counter-attack, in which case you could go like 5S, shitsu, small dash 5K, shitsu fall and continue pressure from there. But as I said, in order to leave little room for your opponent to escape, you really need to time and space your shitsu perfectly, if necessary by delaying the cancel into it. In this regard Anji is blessed in +R by his ability to cancel normals at any recovery frame so this allows larger delaying windows and as a result makes shitsu frametraps easier. He also gets the ability to cancel into specials from 3S and 6H which are decent moves to cancel into shitsu thanks to their good blockstun and their forward momentum. 5D into shitsu also works OK in +R by the way, assuming you are close enough to get it blocked. But 5S is still the move that allows the best frametraps with shitsu. PS: Also I believe I already talked about Anji's blockstrings in detail in the discussion thread here so you might want to check that out: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?3931-Anji-Mito-Anji-Discussion-Thread/page18&p=1408701&viewfull=1#post1408701 I didn't mention much about +R in this post though since the game just came out in arcades at that time.
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To my knowledge there is no "fast" or easy way to train those combos, they are among the hardest things to master as an Anji player (there aren't many) and also are quite character specific. What you need in order to do those: 1) Not too many hits before On (we already discussed that earlier) if not the combo will be impossible. 2) Hit with the jHS while being low enough to the ground and also having the opponent high enough in the air when he's getting hit by the move so that he doesn't hit the ground before you and you have enough time to continue the combo with 5K or even 2P. In order to achieve 2) you need of course to time your air dash as fast as possible, which is achieved thanks to the 956 IAD input: input 9 then let the stick go back to neutral and push 6, all that very fast. You also need to delay your gatlings as much as you can in order to have jHS hit at the latest timing possible. In this regard, the jK into jS gatling in particular allows for a relatively long delay without allowing your opponent to tech, so make sure to use this to your advantage. The only problem is that you probably won't always be able to use jK to hit the character after the IAD, I'm pretty sure some characters need to be taken with jP, jS, jHS instead. So basically you need to experiment from that and see what works with which characters. To be honest I don't use this type of combo in real match situations because the risk of fucking up at the price of losing your knockdown is quite high. And it's also relatively situational since you can only do it in cases where On can hit early enough in the combo (so basically limited to anti-air followups from standing P or anti-jump/tech traps with plain On). But obviously if you can master it even on just a few characters, it's a great plus to your game since the damage increase is still very noticable and at no tension cost.
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[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
For the mention on Xrd's website : 東京ゲームショウ 2013 では ゼネラルディレクター・石渡がステージ登壇します。 詳しくは リンク先 をご確認ください。 ※GUILTY GEAR Xrd -SIGN- の試遊台出展はありません。 Ishiwatari, the general director, will be making a speech at TGS 2013. Please check the link for more details. (links goes to arcsys website's TGS dedicated page) *There won't be any GUILTY GEAR Xrd -SIGN- test cab exposed this time. As far as I can see the link doesn't really point to any related info though, just the arcsys lineup for TGS that we already know. -
Personally I use it like this, when pressuring an opponent, throw out 5D, input 623 during the motion, and then see if the opponent blocks or not: - if he blocks push P and you should get shitsu, which allows you to put some more pressure on him. - if he gets hit push D and you will combo into FB On, then you can followup by airdashing, land, 5P, On (may vary depending on the character and distance from the edge of the screen though). You don't get much more damage compared to a normal dust combo but it's still useful if you want both knockdown and good damage from a dust. Still costs 25% though. Apart from that it's not especially useful, in theory you can use it as an anti-air because the hitbox is huge, but your opponent needs to be very high and/or far enough from you when you do it because the startup is kinda slow and it has no invincibility during the startup. It's kinda like a dumbed-down version of Potem's HPB for 25% but a lot more situational.
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1. Your K followup after Fuujin may be performed too late, or you perform your 5P too late after the K followup, or even both. It could also simply be because of the lag if you play online. 2. After On the possibility of a followup or not depends on the weight, sprite size of the character you're fighting and also on your proximity to the corner. For example if your On brings an opponent towards the corner and you are very close, you can followup with pretty much anything. After a on midscreen On you can followup by a HS fuujin right after landing on midweight characters and under (IE everyone except Pot, RK, ABA, Johnny, Order Sol). Be careful though because the possibility of followups after On is dependant on all of those factors, and also on one more which is the number of hits you got before inputting On. The more hits in the combo before On, the less possibilities of followup you'll have. That's also why it's best used as a finishing move, most of the time it's better to just get the knockdown with it and not do any followup unless you only have a few hits (like up to 3) before inputting it. 3. This one is very difficult and character specific so I wouldn't recommend to rely on it in real match. You have to input of the S followup so that it hits the character sprite on the latter frames of the move and/or lift it up high enough for you to followup with 5P right after. So depending on the character it might involve delaying it to some degree or even sometimes doing it ASAP... It's pretty easy to get on Sol for example but a lot of characters have timings that are very unpractical for a real match situation.
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If you're talking about AC I recommend IAD jS, jHS if close enough to the corner to get a wallstick. In AC+R you get more options but they are also harder to connect : - If your opponent is crouching while taking the move go for 5K, 5S, 5HS into classic HS fuujin + FB rin combo. - However if the opponent is standing the timing for it is extremely tight and nearly impossible to do in a real match situation, so I would recommend starting with 5P instead which makes the link a bit easier. In +R 3S cancels are easier so with some practice you can go 5P, 3S~5S, 5HS into classic HS fuujin + FB rin combo. Also if you can master the new FRC on the move it makes followups a lot easier, but IMO it's better to master the above links since they basically cost nothing to perform and you need your tension for the following combo.
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I just checked and you're right, probably misread the info or left the 6H mention by accident for this one. Gonna modify the 1st post, thanks for reporting the error. I think this change means that once you hit, the opponent is pulled in easier by the successive hits, not that the hitbox on the hits themsleves is stronger.
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[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
This is probably the most important info of all on the system page : 「本ページの掲載内容は第一回ロケーションテストのものです。今後、変更になる場合があります。」 "The info on this page is related to the first location test. It may change later." So no need to freak out about the disappearance of the FRCs or other things and how catastrophic it could be on the game system. It seems that with that location test they're still experimenting on the new system and want to have feedback from their fans, which can only be a good thing for the end product. -
Sou's startup is definitely 11F in ACR so if it's still not fixed it needs to be changed on the dustloop wiki. As for Fuujin that's another change I didn't notice, CH fuujin still leads to very good combos anyway and the proration doesn't apply if it's used in a combo. But I'll add it to the main post, thanks.
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Anji has some interesting resets involving OTG butterfly at the end of a combo that usually work on a certain number of character only. Usually I only use it after a On that puts into the corner but to my knowledge it only works on Faust, Dizzy and Baiken. Basically it works like this, you end your combo with a corner On, throw out a butterfly right away which hits OTG, if your opponent techs he has to block the followup in the air (some chars can escape by teching forward though) and if he doesn't he hits the followup right on his wakeup. This is very interesting because you can just run up and On if you see him teching or just go into a ground mixup if he just stays on the ground, especially with a red butterfly where you can go with 2S and get an unblockable. You can also get that setup on more characters with a P kai near the corner (I remember it working on Venom and Eddie this way) but it's obviously harder to set up this way and if you somehow manage to end a combo with P Kai you're gonna lose some damage. It works on even more characters if you do your OTG butterfly after a FB rin but in that case, just as the above poster says, you're basically sacrificing some damage just to do this specific setup, while you could just grab some more significant damage and then go for a regular okizeme.
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[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion
Dream Maker replied to Shinjin's topic in Guilty Gear General
As far as I know this kara cancel into SB technique actually works with moves that immediately shrink your hitbox in the front or upwards (and not extend it as it would be counter productive), so that when you kara cancel into slashback you get it immediately because your char suddenly goes back to the bigger standing guard hitbox. It's mainly used against moves coming from upwards and projectiles, but not really practical during blocking. -
All of them still work, except the combos from Sou (K during autoguard) because the move doesn't wallstick anymore unless the last hit is CH, which is highly unlikely. So you don't combo on an airbone opponent but on a grounded opponent.
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Now that I can check with the mook, here are the answers to the differences with the dustloop wiki (in red).
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Guilty Bits video series- Official thread
Dream Maker replied to tataki's topic in Guilty Gear General
I'm sorry I took so long to answer back, was tired from the traveling and had to restart working right after so I couldn't really find the time to write a post here. So, to get back on the discussion with Zidane about Anji's neutral and okizeme game : Osuna pretty much said what I thought about the wording to describe Anji's okizeme. The thing we have to pay attention to however is for future episodes not to use inferior wording to describe Millia's oki for example, in order to keep some overall consistence. But for the rewriting of the Anji episode we will anyway use milder wording to avoid any confusion. Regarding Anji's poking and neutral game, my impression is that you are now exaggerating its strengths on some details pretty much in the same way that we probably did make it look weaker than it really is and didn't convey things properly in the original video. First, I can agree that the best rewards Anji can get in terms of damage are definitely from poking and neutral game situations. Actually, you get his best in terms of damage from pretty much anything that leads to a fuujin, FB rin combo as early in the combo as possible, be it a 5S, 2S or 6S counter hit, a 5HS to counter an opponent whiffing a shorter range poke or even a plain HS fuujin. The simple reason for that is because the lesser hits in the combo before going to what really does damage (fuujin, FB rin combo), the better damage you get. But there is no actual proration in the okizeme that causes damage to drop. Or at best it depends on what tool you used to open the guard (3P, 2S, 2D, butterfly hits in themselves for example do NOT have proration, but 2K does) and then you do lose some damage due to the butterfly hits lowering the guard gauge, but nothing that makes an okizeme from a 3P opener that much inferior to a combo from a 5S poke. Now, you don’t actually get occasions for big combos from pokes that often. Particularly when you’re fighting characters that can shut down Anji’s pokes pretty easily because they have an overall superior poking game (Axl), have ways to absorb/protect themselves from pokes with shit (Eddie) or have so fast pokes or movement that you can’t allow yourself to throw some 2S and 6S without taking the risk to whiff and get your pokes stuffed in the meantime (Slayer/Chipp). Now these chars I put in parenthesis are only a few of many matchup examples in which Anji just can’t afford to use his mainstream pokes mindlessly and has to be very careful, patient and look for openings or other ways to break in (with well timed IADs for example). While it is true that against some of the cast you can sometimes zone effectively with Anji’s pokes, there are many examples where you just can’t, which also led us to underline the shortcomings of his neutral game. Also regarding autoguard making his poking game better than other chars, I don’t really agree either. While it’s true autoguard somehow helps its neutral game I believe it is wrong to say that his pokes are better than other chars’ because of that. The 5 autoguard frames that 6S has aren’t what essentially makes it a good poke in AC and +R (even if it does contribute for sure), but rather its range and wide hitbox. I can’t count the number of times I got successful CHs with this move without even autoguarding anything. We’re not in the Slash and Reload days anymore with the old 5HS that was made godly by its 7 well placed autoguard frames. By the way, what other good poke is there in AC and +R that is good and has autoguard other than 6S ? The answer is simply put, none. Finally, mentioning 80-90% combos with Anji is misleading, considering you can’t get such combos with him unless you’re able to seriously crank your opponent’s guard bar (which in AC is difficult due to 5S not building guard bar, and in ACR people have more life overall) or unless you’re fighting Chipp and being very generous in rounding your percentages. It’s true though that Anji is capable of very solid damage (I believe I mentioned it in my original explanations for the making of the vid, but it wasn't in the final script) and IMO he’s even in the upper end of damage dealers in +R thanks to some of the stronger characters of AC losing a lot of their bullshit. Anyway, I agree by know that the vid we provided definitely had some issues in it that are due to the wording we used and the way we chose to present things, and I want to apologize for it as I have my fair share of responsibility in it. We’re working on a better version which I think should be a lot clearer, precise and less absolute about the opinions put forward in it. -
Guilty Bits video series- Official thread
Dream Maker replied to tataki's topic in Guilty Gear General
@Zidane : Hi and thanks for bringing the discussion here so we can clear things up. I don't use twitter at all so I'm not very informed about what is going on here and I don't have any means to answer there. Reading your comments it actually seems to me that there is a big misunderstanding that is mostly due to wording that we used in the vid and how you and other people understood the info. It's also important to add that the video was supposed to be short, so we couldn't keep everything and tataki had to make choices on what to keep and how to rewrite and group some things to make them go into shorter sentences. I see what your points are and I can actually agree with most of them, but seeing what you wrote I'm now convinced that what you consider to be wrong in this vid is either due to a misunderstanding, a problem in wording or opinions on the character. And certainly not mistakes due to not checking the frame data or not understanding the game. So let's get into this now : 1) What is mentioned as "sub-par" in this vid aren't the pokes in themselves. It was more about the neutral game as a whole, including the abare and the rewards. We mentioned 5S, 6S and 2S as pokes because they're good, but also tried to underline what their flaws are. 1a) I'm pretty sure by experience that depending on the range you hit and the position of the character (standing/crouching) you can't always chain 2S into 2D, even in +R with the improved range on 2D. Same thing for S fuujin, not mentioning that you need to go through a nagiha FRC to combo into something, the followup of which is also range and/or corner dependant. 2) Tools in themselves aren't mentioned as weak (although we did point out their weaknesses), it's the overall neutral game that is said to be subpar mainly due to rewards on poking being dependant on a lot of factors. 3) Misunderstanding here again, not safe to use wasn't supposed to be understood as unsafe on block. The frame data you put forward is true, but in practice people can and will punish every single of those followups if they can anticipate them correctly. 27 and 21 frames plus a big FB flash for Rin and FB Rin respectively are more than enough for the opponent to see and put a quick low and I can guarantee you that in my experience it does happen. Same thing for nagiha without any FRC, and the P followup that can be punished by a jumping attacks as well as for the hop that is beaten either by a throw or a fast move depending on the distance. Can you use FRC on some of them to make them totally safe ? Yes. Can you delay or mix up followups to make them harder to anticipate and to react to ? Hell yes. Can you use fuujin as a pressure tool without knowing the flaws that all it's followups have and without mixing/delaying to make the guess harder for your opponent ? No, and that's why we felt it was necessary to mention that there were dangers in using it. But again, wording, lack of space, need to make choices and to drop some explanations. 4) Yeah, but again this was mainly supposed to be about oki, and our mistake here was that we didn't choose a better setup to show like a meaty or a butterly-covered one to show the situations where K Kai really is safe to use. 5) Again, there seems to be a divergence in wording and maybe also of opinion/experience. I won't deny that Eddie's and Millia's okizemes for example are miles better than Anji's, however to me he's well above most of the cast in this area and the butterfly provides him with a lot of great options provided you know what your opponent can do to counter them so that you can limit his options and try to condition him to blocking. This post summarizes pretty well my method of okizeme with him (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15785-Butterfly-pressure&p=1459994&viewfull=1#post1459994) and so far I rarely had problems as long as I succeeded in making my opponent pay for trying to escape if he tries. These mixups are tight enough to limit their options and have enough variations to keep them guessing. I can understand why you would qualify as lackluster if you mean that is pressure isn't safe from FD's and all the numerous defensive means that this game gives. But honestly most character in the games are like that (Millia and Eddie are exceptions), yet the majority of them don't even have half the options Anji can get from a successful okizeme with the butterfly. In the end all this story makes me think that these forums in general lack discussion and debate that would have cleared problems like this, and would have helped a lot in building some common knowledge that pretty much the whole community can agree on. And also that maybe a format with several contributors would have been more suitable to avoid things like this. Tataki did put a lot of time and energy into this and I'm quite disappointed to see so much negative criticism on it while the problem actually seems to lie more in misunderstandings and opinions than anything else but whatever... That's it for now, I'm open to discussion if you want to discuss more of this, but I won't be here for the next day as I will be traveling. -
Guilty Bits video series- Official thread
Dream Maker replied to tataki's topic in Guilty Gear General
Yep, it's actually very useful at point blank to gain damage from a non prorating low as 2D into S fuujin, FB rin doesn't work on every char. But if you use 2S as a poke and want to combo from there this isn't possible most of the time. -
I don't have the mook at hand now since I'm not at home but the DL ACR frame data definitely seems to be wrong. And also it looks to me like work in progress since I had trouble finding it in the wiki. I'll check again to be sure when I'll have time as I might have missed some info, but to me it seems like all the info on the wiki wasn't updated. And at the very, very least I'm 100% positive that 5S does rise guard bar and that 3K is a low. These are things you can verify in game or by seeing vids.
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Guilty Bits video series- Official thread
Dream Maker replied to tataki's topic in Guilty Gear General
That's correct, didn't mention the crouching and I should have, but it's harder to chain into 5H in reaction to crouching hit due to the weaker hitstop. Also you can actually link 2K into 5S (not a gatling combo but 2K recovers fast enough to allow it to connect) but 2K has some severe proration and the range on 5S isn't great, particularly in AC so you can't combo if you hit with the tip. -
Guilty Bits video series- Official thread
Dream Maker replied to tataki's topic in Guilty Gear General
I've been off for a few days, didn't think that would end up like this, so since apparently people here consider that the info I provided is wrong I decided to drop in and try to clear things up. I'm really surprised honestly since AFAIK all the hard data in the original vid script is true if we don't count what is mostly related to "opinions". But anyway, to go on what seems to be the most recurrent complaints about the script : - 5P as far as I know is mentioned in the anti-air section. It's an excellent move indeed not only as an anti-air but the fact that it doesn't hit low stance characters prevents it from being spammed too much. It has a lot of specific uses against certain moves and against potemkin in general, that's true. Did this need a specific mention, I dunno, it depends on your judgement and what you want to include in what is after all supposed to be a very short tutorial vid. - I mentioned the Kai problem to Tataki several times during the writing of the script, and I didn't originally present him the info like that. IIRC I mentioned K kai as an okizeme use for meaty and P kai as a situational tool in pressure. He wanted to keep the Kai/dust mixup because he saw it in some vids, so after I talked to him about how this sounded weird he did put "small frame advantage" to take into account the very small frame advantage and the fact that when IBed the moves (K in particular) aren't safe. The setup shown in the vid is indeed not practical at all, but we ended up agreeing that this would only be an example of what you can do, and since it is in the okizeme section people were supposed to understand that this wasn't to be done without shitsu cover or a meaty setup. I don't want to sound like I put the blame on him for this though, this is indeed my fault since I was responsible for the final check of the script and I probably should've pushed harder to have this removed. - For the supbar neutral game : this is indeed my opinion on his neutral game and I stand firm on it. Tataki already brought this up to me saying that "people" were disagreeing with me about Anji's neutral game being "bad" so I sent him this back : "I stressed it got better in +R, the improved 5S alone does a lot of good to him and while bad may be an overstatement (never said that word about his neutral game though, more like mediocre or sub-par) he's still lacking in that department comparing to other characters. If you look at AC, his best pokes are 2S and 6S, which are decent pokes but have pretty big recovery and can only be confirmed into 5H if you want to get damage, which can whiff sometimes due to pushback/spacing. To be true though, fuujin HS is indeed a very powerful and cheap move. A lot of people who don't know how to deal with it or have not incorporated any counter measures against it in their gameplay actually get fucked up by it pretty badly. If that's what people call a powerful neutral game I can't agree with that, while it's true the move is pretty spammable you can't afford to base your neutral game on something that can expose you to a very harsh punition everytime you use it." To add more details on this, you should also note that 2S and 6S don't chain into anything good unless you net a counter hit. Anyway I'd really like to know how you guys see his neutral game and what you disagree with in this small "analysis", maybe that would help clearing the misunderstanding on what is after all nothing but an opinion and my own one (opinion that I saw shared by at least some players in the japanese BBS for whatever it's worth). Anyway, it also seems to me that you guys didn't get the guy you wanted to do this job, and don't like to have someone else you didn't know do it. I'd say in my defense that I've been playing Anji for years in Japan as well as in my home country, some people who played against me here and there know that I can perform well with the char and while I'm indeed very, very far from being able to enter Tougeki-level tournaments, I can handle myself in Japanese arcades. I've been contributing to the Anji boards here for the last few years a lot while it would have been clinically dead otherwise, and never saw anyone disagreeing that strongly with my statements. Which you should have done if you honestly think my advice is shit because I'm pretty much the only guy to give advice and help over there for the last 3 years or so. Tataki needed someone for the job and I thought I had what was required to do it, I don't know if someone else did apply or not but when I did it looked like he needed help for this. I want to apologize to him though for the shitstorm this caused.