Dream Maker

Hellmonkey : Well I admit I didn't play Ruu or any other famous Bridget (or if I did I didn't even realize) however I already fought some pretty tough ones in Japanese arcades and that's definitely not a character I have much trouble to fight against even if Bridget players are rare and I lack experience against them. I got trashed at times against really strong players yes, it's not like I'm even a good player after all. But as a regular player in Japanese arcades I can tell you I never feel as helpless fighting Bridget as I can be against strong players of other characters like Ky, Dizzy or I-no for example and I'm not talking about famous guys here. You're saying that I don't know how Bridget is strong because I didn't play the real strong guys. I could say the same for you, if you're only playing tougeki people when you are in Japan then you're likely to be overrating the strength of this character. If great or exceptional players like Ruu can indeed "easily destroy" other chars with uncatchable hit and run tactics it's far from being the case for most decent players. Anyway I understand some people see this game as well balanced, yes it is to some extent, most chars are fine but some chars like Bridget have some glaring weaknesses while others are clearly overpowered. What really keeps the balance OK in this game is the wide array of options all chars have and the variety of defensive techniques and not so much the character's strengths in themselves. That's only my opinion and I wouldn't still be playing this game if I was really unsatisfied with the balance.

Neither would I, but I think we can agree that exceptional players don't make a good reference as for which is balanced or not. My point was just as you said to show the optimal playstyle of the character. You think it compensates its flaws, I don't think so. IMO in a game that puts so much emphasis on heavy okizeme payoffs and where most characters do really huge damage having neither the damage nor the knockdown capability is problematic. It's not that its keepaway capabilities are overpowered either, they're strong but that's about it.

Reaver, you're reading it wrong nobody ever talked about giving any quicker refill to Eddie. Basically what AKA said is that FB drill should not hit low anymore and that puddle unblock should launch thus preventing another knockdown and meter regain during the post hole combo that exists today. Totally agree with what AKA said BTW. Regarding Bridget, the character can do some OK damage but occasions for good setups are slim, hell it's like the only character in the game that has almost nothing else to do than a crappy air combo that has absolutely no chance of knocking down after any launcher. Bridget has some awesome setups and keepaway capabilities but even if you watch matches from beasts like Ruu it's not hard to understand that the character needs a lot more combos to win than any other in the game. It's like hit and run, hit and run 10 to 15 times a round...

According to the french video game website gamekult citing a famitsu article, the game will be available this summer on XBLA and PSN. No info on the arcade version or potential tweaks/additions though, and the famitsu article reportedly doesn't say much more either.

The character you're reffering to is the vanilla GGXX version of Robo-Ky and not Ky. Robo-Ky has a completely different move set in the following games, only in this version he does look a lot like Ky with a few different moves. If you're playing accent core you should be careful to look for GGXX accent core vids, the game in this video is vanilla GGXX and it's completely outdated now, you won't be able to reproduce the combos you see in it.

I have no info on how he did that. Maybe it is only possible on arcade version with some kind of debug mode, I don't know.

Here's one : http://www.packupload.com/downloading?f=BIA0A242D06 Quality isn't very good and it's not frame by frame but at least you have everything. PS : Credit goes to Joe Higashi for this.

Wrong. I enjoy GGAC way more than GG/ and even more than Blazblue whatever version you're talking about. I hope for changes on AC because I believe this is the best way to give a new momentum to the series and avoid a new desertion of the game. You may disagree with me and I may be wrong, but you are totally missing my point here. The fact that the game is coming both on console and arcade is IMO a strong hint that there will be changes anyway from vanilla AC as minor as they may be. Arcade players won't see the point of a new GG coming to arcade otherwise... And btw, citing capcom games as an example for rebalancing is a joke, Capcom is not particularly known for successfully rebalancing their games each time they make a new iteration of them, look at the vampire series in which only the old vampire savior is played competitively, and the SF2 series too. Arc sys on the other hand has a way better history in this domain, you generally see a positive trend as for rebalancing if you look at the overall evolution of the GG series or the BB series. So I trust they won't totally fuck things up if they do want to change GGAC. And I too find strange that no vids or reports are up yet, I'll try to check jap BBS and if I have news I'll let you guys now. PS : after a rapid check, no news or reports found so far here but people are already making changes wishing lists in this thread.

If you fail to see how there are huge differences as for broken or strong abilities (call that as you want but basically everything that gives a character a strong advantage and is essential to his current gameplay) between let's say Testament and Bridget, then I don't know what to tell you. Sure, if you take the middle pack of the tiers it's way harder to tell who is stronger and here we can talk of good balance. From our average level of playing and understanding in western communities the game may seem balanced because every character has a lot of posibilities but disparities between chars do exist and are actually meaningful at very high level play. Some awesome players are able to push their chars very far even if they are low tier and win sometimes because the game leaves them with a lot of options and no matter how shitty their char may be on the tier list it still has tools for almost any situation. But if you check who wins on all the top rankings in Japan you won't see Bridgets, Johnnys, as chars winning consistently. Team rankings and Tougeki are a different story, because it's team. The format itself is a safeguard against unbalances. Basically what I'm saying is that sure, GG's balance is way better than many games out there, but there's still some obvious room for improvement. How exactly would it hurt the actual player base of the game ? I don't remember anyone walking away from the series when slash or accent core came out... GG fanboys like myself just followed and played the newest version everyone was playing. And there are some people who consider that by some regards slash was better balanced than accent core. I'll buy the game anyway, because I love the series and I want to support it so that they end up making a real new game. But new version coming or not I have always been playing the game and I'll keep playing it. So I'd prefer to have something that's somewhat new rather than just the same game with online mode on my PS3.

I personally think this would be the best way to bring some fresh air into the game and guarantee that players whoever they are will have a renewed interest for the game. Arcade version rebalanced = people will want the new version at any price, even if the balance is worse than the previous one. I personally doubt they would manage to fuck it up if they rebalance anyway, unless they do it without giving any fuck. IMO GGXXAC is "balanced" only due to the fact that every character has some broken moves or setups but if you look closer some chars are having way more broken things than others. This in the end makes tiers still significant even if every character has everything it needs to win. If they keep this aspect (IE every character has broken things and is able to somewhat deal with almost any situation) they can do some tweaks without totally ruining the balance. But that's only my opinion. And not everyone by far is wishing for a rebalance, it seems by reading this thread that we actually are a minority. But I think that if they plan to release Justice and Kliff they can't escape doing rebalance in some way.

That's what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear in my post because it seems you understood the exact opposite. IE GG vets right now are a majority not to want a rebalance, so were the third strike vets when 3SO was announced.

Well then it seems my expectations are just totally different from those of many people here. I mean, I already play the game and enjoy it as it is, probably won't play it online anyway because it will certainly be too frustrating to mess up inputs because of delay etc... It's not that I'm bored of GGXXAC or anything, I just don't see the point of me purchasing the same version just to play it on my next gen console. I still have my PS2 and it works well. I dunno if vets will be bored or not if this new GG ends up being the same. But many of them dropped the game a while ago. I find it hard to believe that so many people stopped playing just because they can't play it on their next gen console and online. How were they doing before next gen and online stuff happened ? As for a next gen port being able to bring new people into the scene I'm quite skeptical. Most new people today like to play online. Blazblue for example is playable online without major problems because it has a very permissive input system. GG on the other hand doesn't have this, it has 2 frame FRCs, 2 frame slashbacks, etc... I played reload online on PC enough to understand that the online play made this game feel a lot different and definitely harder to play. Some chars like I-no in an online GGXXAC would be close to unplayable. Sure they could implement Blazblue's input system but it would completely fuck the whole game up. Anyway I realize that I am mainly speculating at this point. We don't know yet how they will handle this. I understand why some people want to have this game online on next gen and would prefer to keep it as it is. But I can't share the same enthousiasm for this, and this has nothing to do with hate, rage or boredom.

You're absolutely right and I'm not going to complain about it anyway. It's just that I think we shouldn't be expecting this "new" GG to magically revive the community if they decide to put minimal effort in it which would be the case if there is no rebalancing. But indeed, if they really plan to work on a brand new GG game and this is the thing they need to bring the hype back somehow then all the better.

I really hope there will be a rebalancing of some sort. I love this game and I never stopped playing it since it came out and it's not that I'm bored of it or anything... But this game needs something new even if it's just minor balance tweaks. True, balance in GGXXAC is far from being bad compared to many other games, but there's still plenty of room for improvement and developers should know what to do now that the game has been out for ages. I doubt a netcode will be enough to keep people playing, especially considering how the game is strict on inputs. If there's nothing new veterans will be bored eventually and the sucky online mode won't be enough to just keep them playing. We would be back to the present situation in no time (IE no or few players left in our western communities). Just my opinion anyway but this is how I am feeling right now about this. I don't understand why so many veterans seem not to want any rebalance for this game. Street Fighter 3S fans wished the same back then for 3SO and we know how things are now.

Isn't AOU supposed to be an exposition for arcade games ? If so, this is most likely an arcade release. I hope they are going to make some overall balance tweaks (the game needs some) at least and not just release the plain game on nesica so that game centers can get rid of some encumbering GGXAC cabs. Anyway, I would have preferred a plain new game rather than another rehash of a game that's over 5 years old. Although having Kliff and Justice playable and balanced on arcade would definately be sweet. I guess it's better than nothing...

In my opinion, Jam, Slayer, May are excellent picks for begginners who want to get wins rapidly because of their high "accident" factor (IE they have lots of moves easy to mash with very good risk/reward ratio and that lead to devastating combos). A beginner can pick them up, learn their most threatening moves as well as some very basic combos and start winning matches here and there against a lot of people, then move to more optimized combos when he gets good. A lot of people recommend Ky and Sol because of their shoto-style gameplay. True, they're certainly not among the hardest chars to learn however they have some pretty difficult aspects to master in order to reveal their potential. A Ky players needs to push his limits really far in order to have threatening combos and oki and a Sol player needs to be really good on the risk management aspect, not mentioning sidewinder combos. It's fine for people who are just looking for Ryu-like chars and familiar characters in the first place because they fear to get confused, but I don't see Ky and Sol as good beginner choices in Accent Core at least.

If true that would mean that frame advantage is down to +2 or +1 instead of +3, I didn't notice much difference though and I think that would only be a minor nerf. Advantage on block is always good anyway and Hakumen still got owned on 6A IB before.

Just back from playing, 6B still breaks 1 primer so no change on that. For the other things I could not try because of competition, but I don't feel like using just one 6a at the beginning of a combo really changes anything regarding proration. By the way here is a pretty comprehensive list of changes on a japanese hakumen wiki : http://www14.atwiki.jp/hakumenmatome/pages/130.html I'll translate that directly so that everybody can understand. A : damage 350→400 2A : damage 300→350 2C : damage 950→1050 4C : Became chargeable 6A : Head invicible attribute added, frame advantage halved on block ? Makes float further on air hit, wall bound added on air hit, repeat proration 10% JA : P2 84%→89% JB : untechable time increased on air hit, gatling to j2A added. JD : no CH state anymore during lag on landing、damage 1600→2000 Throw : special cancel possible, wallbound smaller Back throw : special cancel possible, wallbound smaller Guren : 10% repeat proration Kishuu : travel distance increased, head, body and projectile attribute invincibility added from frame 5 Renka : 2nd hit wallbounces, 2nd hit proration went from 65% to 55% ? Hotaru : Does not remove primer anymore, P1 down from 90% to 70% ? Shippu : Startup is faster (can combo from 2A)、guaranteed minimum damage 800→1000 According to this no change on yukikaze. Forgot about cooldown info : cooldown on all moves of 2 magatama or more (except distortion drives) is halved from 180 frames to 90 frames.

It was with IB if I remember well. Anyway on many occasions it felt like I had enough time to 6A him but I ended up being beaten in the end. Anyway I remember being able in previous versions to 5A Hazama out of this on some occasions (not all the time by far, but depending on timing from Hazama's part, IB or not, etc it was possible). The fact that I had poor success with 6A so far leads me to think that new 6A's invincibility is kinda slow to come out. Or the move must have somehow a weakness against deep jump ins I dunno. It works very well on many other situations though particularly against IADs but you have to anticipate a bit. It's definitely not as easy to use as Ragna's. Double 2C/j2A/j2C loops : I don't know, I haven't tried. Actually I wasn't really successful at these on the previous version already but next time I go playing I'll try. Yukikaze : didn't use it at all for now so I can't say. Full charge 4C : damage on full charge is indeed big but charge time makes it hard to use at all. Fully charged it gives frame advantage on block, long hitstun on hit and wallbounce on air hit. If by chain you mean cancel, I don't think you can chain it into renka. Fully charged the move is not cancellable be it on hit or on block however its massive hit stun allows you to do pretty much anything you want afterwards (including renka of course). Kishuu : travel distance seemed indeed a bit larger to me, I dunno about invicibility changes though I'll have to try that out. Shippu : it's way faster yes, can even connect from 2A for any damages changes I didn't notice, I don't use it except sometimes for combo finishers to be honest and I didn't notice anything too mindblowing with such a use. 6B : I dunno for the primer didn't pay attention but I'll check next time.

Well, I must admit I don't have frame data or anything to back that up but that's my personal impression after several hours of playing the new Hakumen. For example I got beaten several times trying to use 6A after blocking Hazama's chain in order to counter his following air attack approach. You're free to believe whatever you want though. As for 6A in combos it's indeed very possible that they put repeat proration to avoid abuses with wallbounces, haven't checked that. Anyway untechable time after bouncing is pretty short, so it's better to use the move very early in the combo. But I can confirm that 5C, 1 hit renka, kishu, slightly charged 6C, 6A, 2C, HJ2A, j2C, 2C, j2A, air dash, j2A, jC, 5C, 3C works perfectly well and I think I also got the same kind of combo from tsubaki, slightly charged 6C, 6A, etc...

Most people are of course aware of it be it Hakumen or non-Hakumen players. You can combo on CH with straight guren even midscreen. 6A AA is not as almighty as you guys seem to think (IE not Ragna's 6A or CT Haku 6A) for 2 reasons, first invincibility is kinda slow to come out so you have to anticipate a little bit and it makes Haku move a little forward which can make it whiff on some occasions. It's definitely a good new tool for Hakumen though. I think one reason you don't see it that much on vids is also because now, people are aware that you cannot jump in on Hakumen as easily as in CS2/CS so they won't take stupid risks. Basically against Hakumen they now have to do as they did before against other characters with decent or good AA.

From what I know and what I could try there aren't all that much new changes in proration. But some moves got a bit of damage increase here and there, adding that to new combos possibilities with throw cancel, midscreen renka, 6A and jB changes Hakumen indeed got an overall damage increase. But honestly I see no way how basic combo from 5C renka, kishu, can do 8000+ (unless maybe you spend a lot of meter with hotaru restets and shippu finisher) although I believe you could easily get around 6000 with an optimal combo.

Most important info in this is that Renka actually wallbounces even midscreen so you can followup with air dash, jA, jB, 2C, etc...

Seems unlikely to me at least for Kudlak. His current gameplay is mainly revolving around setting up kind of zombie-like shields staying around him and that absorb hits and counter attack straight away. If they make him playable they'd better rethink his whole gameplay cause simple rebalancing will not be enough to make him not broken.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15440516 Bugberus is in the place. Ahahaha xD Great game though despite the bugs and infinites.