Dream Maker

Part of the "nerfs" may actually be due to the lag many people noticed though. Particularly nerfs concerning moves not comboing as they did before and becoming black beat by a short margin. They should adress this problem on the next build, guess we'll have to wait to see what's really a change and not. I find it weird though that they actually didn't notice it by themselves even if this is the first test.

Damn those lag issues would explain a lot of things, it sure felt kinda weird for the little time I played, missed a lot more things than usual. But I unconciously blamed excitement or unnoticed changes for that.

Hey, I'm just back from the loketet in Osaka. Had time to observe quite a lot, just had one game against a Slayer. All I can say is that people who thought this game will be a brokefest can sleep well, they seem to have nerfed the cheapest aspects of the top chars, even though they provided them with new weapons. Here is what I could observe, sorry if it's incomplete, unsure, or already mentioned. Characters that aren't mentioned : I didn't notice anything more than what we already knew or I didn't see playing. Anji : - 3K doesn't make the opponent float anymore, he stays on the ground when taking the hit. - 2H, 6H is gatling but doesn't combo on a standing character Venom : - 6P, 6H doesn't seem possible anymore, at least I saw a player seeming to attempt that and he could only get 6P, H Order-Sol : - Rock it level 2 knocks down. Zappa : - Sword 2H stays in place for a bit after the animation, this seems to allow for some pretty nasty keepaway tactics (like 2H spam). Justice : - Walking speed seemed slow has hell and the guy who tried to play her didn't seem to dash even once, I'm wondering if she got Potemkin style ground movement ? Hard to say if this isn't a little to much to make up for her abilities though. Jam : - 6H followup causes KD instead of wallstick now. - Puffbal FB also causes KD instead of wallstick. Johnny : - Lv2 S Mist finer seems to launch behind him very often, still possible to combo though. Slayer : - 2H doesn't launch anymore, causes stagger instead. Sol : - FB fafnir is cancellable into just as the normal one. - FB sidewinder looks like auto clean hit and seems to have a crazy hitbox. - j214K in dragon install looks like a new animation, goes down to the ground with a Jam like 214K fire kick, very fast Dizzy : - Not all the fish bites are 3 hits, some are 1 hit like before. Can't tell which though I don't know the character enough for that. Testament : - S Exe beast now does 2 hits, seems slower to come out (maybe not usable in pressure strings anymore ?). It advances a bit and bites 2 times, if hits it launches the opponent far away towards Testament. Don't know about the H version, but I believe it behaves somewhat similar. - New warrant move seems like just a teleport, doesn't hit and the old counter warrant is still there. Baiken : - The new 214P counter is super fast to come out, looks like a guaranteed anti air but not comboable even with RC the guy playing didn't seem to be able to combo. - 236K can wallbounce if close enough from the corner and the tatami is done far enough from the opponent so that the 2nd knockdown hit doesn't hit. You can then pick up with far S. On air version it knocks down in a forward/downards way unless a wall is close : it wallbounces in that case. Faust : - New dumbbell item knocks down directly. Potemkin : - Slide head still gives KD after ground bounce, but it doesn't seem possible to OTG pickup anymore. - Megafist knocks down. - jS knocks down on air hit May : - cS, HS gatling on airbone opponent doesn't seem to work anymore : fucks up the cheap vertical dolphin loop. Robo-Ky : - HS after leveled up 214S doesn't seem to combo properly anymore, or the guy on the cab was just messing up.

Ok, thanks for the vid. Dunno why but I thought it actually did some damage. It definitely looks like they put the same property as EXE beast to lighning strike in this new version though.

BTW even in the current version Ky can actually combo out of lighting strike with the proper setups usually using an FB star or something. It's not practical per say but it exists and doesn't do close to no damage. I definitely saw that on some combo movies, can't remember which though.

No, the game in the current version already has moves that relaunch from OTG state like Testament's forward EXE beast. They put the opponent out of OTG state and combo damage afterwards becomes normal unless the move has particular force prorate or whatever.

Thanks, looks like I missed that. I just updated.

Just updated my post to make a comprehensive list of the info we have on both the website and the video. Thanks to circuitous for his video with annotations helped me a lot there.

By the way, good news for arcade players : looking at the website it seems the game will be running on the Sega Ringedge 2 system, which means no Nesica and thus no need to share cabs with BB, Aquapazza and P4A players, yay !

It seemed to me by seeing the vid that they added throw invulnerability on the 5H. Did you guys see how she smashed Johnny's 6H ? Might be mistaken though it's pretty hard to see who moved first. Looks so on the vid and the site doesn't seem to state that actually guarding something with the move is mandatory. While translating I initially took it for granted that she needed to guard something to do that but after seeing the vid and reading more carefully I corrected my mistake. She doesn't seem to even need to guard anything to do that.

Didn't notice any changes on the changes lists at least for now. Still the site being back online allowed me to correct some translation mistakes. Also not really important but it seems that they added summon icons for Zappa above his tension bar. And Faust seems to have a new "eatable" item but I can't read what it says when he takes it (bottoms up maybe ? :D).

Yeah, this wasn't written on the site when I made the translating, maybe they'll modify it though. There are a few things showed in the video that don't appear in the character pages (like Anji's 6HS now able to be cancelled from 2HS and into specials).

Maybe but wasn't this possible before only after certain conditions as a followup of some moves ? It seems that now you can do the powered up versions directly if you have the power up cards, followup is not mandatory anymore, and the video seems to confirm this.

Translations of the character pages done, link here : http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13487-quot-New-quot-Guilty-Gear-Accent-Core-Plus-%28Tentative-title%29-to-be-shown-at-AOU2012&p=1333839#post1333839 Also Arisaka gives some explanations on the changes here and what they are aiming to, rough translation of what he wrote : http://www.guiltygearx.com/staff/ "3 main concepts for this new version : - Giving weak characters the tools to fight - Image change for the stronger ones - All this while preserving what makes each character unique It's sad to say, but in the previous version some chars had not enough power, so for them to fight the overpowered guys we didn't back down on giving them new weapons. For the others, those for who we did too much or those who were thought to have gone too far away from their base concept, we decided to proceed to a drastic change of their image (including Kliff and Justice). Now every character should be able to fight properly. We are looking forward to the new strategies and tactics that the players will find."

Almost done with the translations but the site went down again, if you want to track the progress take a look at the last post page 39.

Yeah, changes listed on character pages are mentioned as "main changes" and thus implies that they're not exhaustive. Site is down already, guess I'll have to continue translating later. lol

Main changes as listed on the character pages + those seen on the video : Axl : - P, 2P, 6K, 2S, 2HS, jump 6P, jump S : you can now chose to have 2 hits by maintaining the button - 63214 HS : FRC removed - 4 (charge) 6 D : New FB - 5P, 6K new gatling ABA : - Goku moroha mode : damage up, damage penalty from self hits reduced, longer duration, more powerful overall - 236 D in moroha or goku moroha : more hits, travel distance increased - 5H, 2H new gatling - 5H getting vacuum second hit - Moroha mode gauge now above tension gauge Anji Mito : - 6HS : FRC changed to be just before the move hits. - FB ON , 623D : New FB move, FRC possible right after the move hits. - 2H, 6H new gatling - 6H now special cancellable - FB shitsu (236D) travels farther I-no : - FB note, 214D : New FB move, FRC possible right after startup, sends 2 notes - Can now airdash twice Venom : - 6HS : now possible to gatling into from close S. - FB stinger aim : balls pushed with this move can now bounce several times on the floor and screen borders. - FB carcass raid : same as above Order Sol : - Charge gauge : When using a move the gauge depletes slower - Dragon Install Sakkai (632146S) : Tension cost became 50% instead of 100% - Lvl 2+(?) 236P has walllstick - Lvl 2+(?) 236K has groundslide Ky Kiske : - New move 3HS : Same as the old 6HS pre AC. - New move, S raging Javelin : New S followup after vapor thrust - 222HS : FRC now possible just after the move hits - 214D FB greed saber : new FB - Lightning Sphere 214D followup after charged stun edge : command changed to 4D after CSE. - Charge Drive now wall sticks Kliff Undersn : - 214K : FRC now possible just before the move hits - 214P : has new FB D followup, instant stun (?) - More damage from 6H max charged ? Zappa : - 236H (sword mode) : FRC now possible right after landing (that's what the site says, maybe a typo there or they're talking about the aerial move I dunno) - 236S (Raoh mode) : now possible airbone - 214S (Raoh mode) : now possible airbone - Icons added for each summon - 632146H gives one orb per hit Eddie : - 236D : Possible to recover eddie gauge over the normal limit with this move, bar becomes pink over blue, command changed to 214D. - Amorphous causes float (?) - Eddie gauge moved above tension bar Justice : - 22 + button : added P, K and D version possible to roman cancel each of them, command changed from 421 + button. - Detonation of 22 + button : command changed from P to whatever button you used to trigger the move. - 623 K : command changed from 412K - 41236 HS : S version added, now possible airbone - Gamma ray : FRC added, timing is right after the first hit. - 236D now causes wallbounce Jam : - Not sure to understand everything here but it seems that her powered up special kick moves followups after certain moves can now be done with D button and without any need of followup. - 22D now gives one card of each Johnny : - 214H : Glitter is gold, New move - 236236H (airbone) : New overdrive Slayer : - 632146P : FRC added right before hit and causes ground bounce - 63214H : command changed to 632146H - 214H : new move, HS Dandy step - 214D : new move, FB Dandy step - 5H causes sliding Sol Badguy : - 41236H : return of the old tensionless fafnir, possible to cancel into. - Tyrant rave (fafnir followup after H or D fafnir) : command changed to 64D from 46D - 214K (airbone) during dragon install : new move. I guess it's VV's followup, doesn't need to be done as a followup anymore during dragon install apparently. - 236D airbone : new FB sidewinder - Clean hit added on Bandit Bringer ? Chipp Zanuff : - New FB alpha blade added. Command is D during 236P, causes wallstick - 623D : new FB beta blade, multiple hit uppercut - 41236D : new FB gamma blade, holds opponent longer - HS, alpha blade now combos Dizzy : - 421D : New FB move, FB version of 421S (3 homing blades) - K fish bites 3 times - Fish laser causes wall stick - Text above tension bar indicates if not possible to summon fish Testament : - Zeinest (web) : command changed to 623P - Hitomi (tree) : command changed to 623K - New move (Ruft Warrant ?) : command is 22 P or K - New FB phantom soul : command is 236D - EXE beast chargeable to be held in place and come out later Baiken : - Youshijin : new command is 623P not possible as guard cancel anymore but only as a normal special move. - Return of the "wheel counter" command is 214P while on guard - 63214K : now possible to do guard cancels during the last half of the animation - Ground 236K hits twice, knockdown on second hit Faust : - FB door added, D after 214K - New thrown items : konbu (eatable) and dumbbell (high ?) Bridget : - 6K : now possible to cancel into yoyo or any special move - 214D : is now homing towards the enemy, causes wall stick Potemkin : - 236S : FRC added right after the earthquake comes out - Hammerfall (written as 4 charge 6 S, command changed ?) : FRC timing is later - 63214D : P followup added, cancels the animation of judge gauntlet - Slide head causes groundbounce instead of knockdown - 6H causes wallbounce Millia Rage : - New 2H airbone : return of the pre slash old jump HS - 236D : FRC added right after the jumping animation - 214D : New FB secret garden. - 214S-D : causes wallstick May : - 41236D : New FB version of dolphin summon, appears behind opponent - 623S or HS : possible to followup vertical and horizontal dolphin with restive rolling through this command - Dolphin level for 41236+ button appears above tension gauge - 5H has dash cancel ? Robo-Ky : - 623H : now possible airbone, FRC possible just as the ground version. - 2H missile now comes back down towards opponent after a while - 2S while heat superior than 80% hits twice and lauches

Nice. I'll try to go at the loke test in osaka Saturday and provide you guys with some info. PS : Actually only by reading the move lists descriptions it seems that they are already providing info on some changes, gonna read that now.

Thanks for the vid. Still, funny to see how this Bridget talk keeps going back to Ruu again and again. ^^ I'm almost certain that's him playing there too.

No problem, I'm not sure if I was very clear so if you have any trouble don't hesitate to ask anything, it's good to see the Anji forums brought back from the dead. It would be a real pleasure to help anyone with questions as much as I can. ^^ Jump install seems very weird when you hear about it but it's nothing hard to master really, the timing isn't even as tight as it sounds (hitstops on the moves help for that). I'm sure you'll understand the thing quickly after a bit of practice.

Yup I can understand that and that's what I'm doing too most of the time. Still there are things you don't really pay attention to until you're confronted to certain situations in practice that only very good players will set up for you. And even if you can grasp most of what happens and why it happens like that while seeing a match vid, reproducing things perfectly takes a lot of practice. Don't want to offend anyone else's skill or game knowledge here, but to compete seriously with those guys you see on those vids it takes a lot more than trying to understand what they're doing or playing a few games with them, you need to play with them very often and on a regular basis cause these guys play all the time and things are still evolving even now albeit less than when the game came out of course. Well I'm probably only stating the obvious here, but that's basically what I intended to say in the post you replied to. ^^ You make your point on Q and 3S, the main reason I brought that up is that I know many people who play this game seriously for years and talk about it's balance like you would talk about GGXXAC's. IE every character is fine if you're good enough (well tbh if I insist they manage to make an exception for Sean and 12 but that's about it lol). So it's hard to know where objectivity really is.

Sorry for the late answer. To connect properly the combo you wrote, you have to insert a jump install between the two 5Ss, then do the first jump as a high jump forward then later in the combo push the second jP at the same time as the air jump cancel to preverve the high jump momentum. All this will allow you to connect the combo properly. A jump install is a way to sort of "store" a jump for later. It allows you to double jump in cases you wouldn't normally be able to do so, in this case after a high jump. To do it you have to push up between the two 5Ss without your character actually jumping. This would be something like : 5S, (8), 5S basically imputing a jump between the two moves and cancelling your jump with the second 5S before it even comes out. This technique only works from jump cancellable moves, which in this case is 5S (close). So the real imput for this combo would be : 214P, 5S, 8 (jump install), quickly 5S, 29 (high jump forward), jS, jP, jS, 9~jP (at the same time), jS, jD. Maybe that's a lot of new things for you to get used to but with practice this combo should become second nature. Good luck.

Did not want to sound like only Bridget desserves attention (sorry if it sounded like that, I should have paid more attention) but it's true that I see the character as weak and certainly among the weakest. I totally agree with your point that in case of a rebalance buffing only Bridget and not touching to any other character would make no sense. BTW I know a lot of people here want the game to come out intact and without a rebalance of any sort, and re-reading answers to my posts it seems that some people think I'm among people who complain about the game unbalances. I'm not, I mean I enjoy this game, I think a very good player can do great things with any character but that the balance is not as good as many people here seem to think it is. I said already a while ago that I'd love to see this game rebalanced because there seems to be room to do so and that would at least bring something new. Let's say I wouldn't mind a rebalance but I'll keep playing even if they don't do one as I always did for the past 5 or 6 years since AC came out. I agree totally that it's not for me or anyone else here to decide what changes would be good or not, we all have our ideas about it and ultimately the decision will come from Arcsys. I trust they'll do it seriously if they decide to. There is an important fact that IMO leaves the door widely open for a rebalance : they are releasing the game on arcade. So the thing to ask ourselves here is what would the added value of this game be if they only port it to the Nesica system with no changes at all (except lateral bars) both for players and gamecenter managers. Well, to make things short, nothing very fancy. The players would just probably gain the possibility of having a BBCS-like ranking on Nesica. The gamecenter managers will be able to scrap their old Naomi cabs with GGAC on it. But : Would they replace them by as much nesicas cabs ? Isn't it costly for them to do so ? If they don't do it or replace only a part of them how will the GGAC players react to having to share their cabs with BB or Aquapazza players ? Will they keep coming as before to the arcades to play GG ? I can't even imagine the mess for a gamecenter like mikado that has a dozen or so of double-cabs dedicated to GGAC only. So if they don't bring anything new to the game, we can see there would be little to no benefit, it could even be a plain loss for both the arcade players and gamecenters. If they decide to scrap their plans for the arcade version and stick only to console port then there would be no need for changes at all, but we have yet to hear about that.

Hecatom : You're right, what I'm saying though is that we have an insight on how top players are playing, not what they think about the game balance. That's a different thing. I admit that I was wrong though about judging what nerf or what buff would be good for whatever character, that's still only my opinion and you guys demonstrated well why it wasn't relevant.

Hellmonkey : Ok you made your point pretty clearly and I think I can agree with most if not all of what you said. Still, something bugs me about taking top level players as a reference for balancing, particularly in this game. I mean most people in these forums just see videos of top level plays, some players like myself just got trashed by top level Japanese players sometimes without even understanding much of what happened, even rarer are the guys like you who received some direct insight from them. What I want to say is that all in all we're still strangers to this level of play as we cannot seriously compete in it. So how could we judge that whatever character is balanced from their point of view ? Why would they even bother making tier lists then ? I mean to me that would be kinda like saying that Q is a balanced character in Street Fighter 3 3rd strike because some guys like Kuroda or TM manage to destroy almost everyone with him. Maybe you're right but that still feels weird to me. ^^ Not denying Bridget's strength in a team btw, but talking about this game in team play rather than in solo play is as much of a different story than talking about it at top level rather than average or medium-upper level.