Kuuhaku

This friday I'll try out 6A 5CC wall bounce and see if I can get anything with that. I just realized that 6A 5CC combos in CT, so... maybe it might still combo in CS. I'll try it out. EDIT: Nevermind. Only the first hit of 5C combos after 6A. Not sure if this changed in CS and I'll try adding 2D to see if that helps. I posted this in the other thread, but TD will combo after an air combo. Just 3-4 winds is pointless because pumpkin and King George don't hit. It's about 2.2k damage. King George also has a pimping mustache. EDIT 2: My stupid combo breaks 3k damage. I think it does around 3.5k without an ender. Plus you're much more likely to have an opponent without a burst so it's somewhat more practical than it was in CT. 5B CDC 236B BBL dash 6C 8D + ender of your choice. Though 5B CDC 236B dash 6A BBL 6C 8D would serve the same purpose and probably do more damage. With a random purple grab as an ender, it did 4.5k damage. That's 2k less than it did in CT, but for CS it's not entirely bad damage for Rachel. For lulz, if you think they're mashing, purposely delaying an air grab is not a bad way to get a throw counter. Even if they tech you should be safe because you can stuff most approaches from the air with A lobelia. Actually... I wonder if you could add jC j2C as an ender. At that height it should register as a level 2 or a level 3. .... Haha. XD I can't believe I'm thinking about this. It's such a silly combo. But practical enough if you catch your opponent without a burst.

He still has a lot of the same problems he did in CT and his damage prorates more. Last time I checked he was considered low to mid-low. He's still much better than he was in CT though. Tari- Isn't that missing a 5B? I'm pretty sure 2B doesn't link to 5CDC because I always drop combos that way.

Not really. Noel, Tsubaki, and Tager are still bad, but they're nowhere near the bad that is Rachel. But... really, if they had made Rachel any worse, she would be unplayable. There's still people bitching about her though despite how awful she is, so there's no telling if she'll be any better the next installment. I'm hoping she'll be better because even though she sucks, I have more fun playing her than any other character. Hazama and Arakune are okay, but it's just not the same.

You can use Tempest Dahlia as a standard air combo ender. The damage is 2k-2.2kish. Don't bother if you're planning to do 3-4 wind TD because I think pumpkin and King George won't combo while they're in the air. Also, pumpkin does a bounce on hit and King George does a shock, which is why you can combo after them. I thought I posted this here, but apparently not. Pumpkin still disappears on IB as well. Be careful with a lot of information floating around. A lot of it is people intentionally trolling. You can dash sooner after B lobelia (5B CDC 236B dash 6A), meaning that B and C lobelia might actually have less recovery, but not by much. I'd still wait for the frame data though. Probably the number one thing I wish about Rachel other than her damage being overall crap is that her projectiles didn't lose to everyone else's projectiles. To be safe from pumpkin all you have to do is throw something. Same with lobelia. I can't just have rods camp under people anymore waiting for them to do something stupid.

Yeah it does. Quite a few times, I've done wind thinking that pumpkin would be there and nope. It has to be like five seconds it disappears on it's own. If you want to play Rachel in CS you just have to accept the fact that Lambda's air throw is going to out damage a majority of your metered BnBs.

EDIT: Geno, you should include the data from the damage and proration chart Spark post for damage and proration nerfs to Rachel's attacks. Good question. I'll check out the actual numbers last time I checked. There's a lot of weird information flying around right now. King George takes off one primer and King Pumpkin takes off another. Meaning that 3 wind TD takes off one guard primer. Like this. No. They can jab you out of start up if they're that close. It's not bad as a whiff or obvious air dash punish though. You might also want to note that only 3 and 4 wind TD can be comboed off of (you can do a standard air combo). With the proration data posted by spark, we now know for sure that pretty much all of her attacks got a damage nerf as well as a proration nerf except for j2C. I think the minimum damage for BBL is around 300. That's just Rachel. For each rod it's around 400 per rod. ... Meaning that minimum damage for three rod + Rachel super is 1500.

It's still shit damage. But it does open up some opportunities for okii. Also, 5CC wall bounce can only rep like three times.

No, there's no positive proration. Simply less proration. Rachel has no other moves that are forced fatal counter. 4B is not a fatal counter. Her only fatal counters are 5C and level 2 and 3 j2C.

Yes. It's a forced fatal counter. So you can even fatal counter during a combo. I believe only level 3 does that though.

Couldn't all of this stayed in the other thread? I don't think there was anything in my post warranting a new thread. I was waiting for Soniti to post it over the outdated loketest information, but obviously he's too busy dying. Either way, from what I saw last night, Pumpkin does go away even if you IB... at least, when it's active. I have no idea about BIB though. In Tempest Dahlia, King Pumpkin and King George both take off one guard primer. Tempest Dahlia also hits behind Rachel. So if they IAD over her during start up, they'll still get hit if they're not blocking. King George and King Pumpkin can both be air comboed off of. King George does a delayed shock hit and King Pumpkin knocks the opponent into the air, giving you enough time to literally run up and 5B air combo. BBL takes off one guard primer if it's just Rachel and an additional guard primer for each rod. So you can do guard crush setups, just the damage makes you want to cry for all that hard work. I think I forgot to edit this when I went over last time, but 5C is a fatal counter. I tried out Lobelia and I actually have no idea on the recovery aside from A being shorter. I could still just dash forward and fork wuku for random full screen lobelia. So, I think we should hold off on that information until the frame data comes out. TD is a decent ground combo ender if you have 3-4 winds. For some reason, I had a hard time getting it to combo when it was just one wind. I'll try it out in the air next time I get a chance. Mostly when I play I'm trying to not get run over. 4B 2B is such a shitty mixup. Everyone can see it coming. j2C cancel into 236A is safe on hit though. Just you can't really do much after the 236A unless you already had pumpkin out.

Well, don't you guys start off of 2A anyway? I know it's not all that common to land a random 5B. Not that it'd help. Even with a random 5B Rachel's damage is still . Thanks for the info robo alex.

Hey, I was wondering if you minded if I tried to stream it? Or I could record matches. I'm not really sure what wireless connection we could hobo at the hub for a live stream, or how we'd do the stream depending on the number of people/setups. I figure it'd be fun though. California can't be the only place getting notice.

What? I'm a girl? Since when? I'll try to stream CS if I'm not retarded and can figure out how it works. I should ask HFA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaZOWzloZq4&feature=sub Some pretty decent setups. And just ignore Shadow clearly trolling and playing wrong. At least Rachel can beat trash players.

I'll try messing with IB and pumpkin when I go up again on friday. Blah. It sucks playing both because I keep getting confused on Sword Iris and what Rachel can/cannot do. j2C! ... Fuck. 6B! ... fuck. But seriously 6BCH stun is wicked short. even 6B D 5A is tough to link. You're better off not using it at all. Also- I'm not sure if this has been noted, but Hazama is froggable mid-screen. Just you need to use 2B 5B.

Cat Chair is an extremely bad idea against Hakumen. But really, against Hakumen just zone him and be careful with rush down. If you get in a bad spot you can run away with wind and he can't really do anything to you. But that only works with Hakus trying to approach you. I have no problems zoning Hakumen, just I don't exactly know how to approach him either. It was a little embarrassing to get timed out by a Hakumen because I couldn't figure out how to approach him safely.

Not likely, but when I mess up on BBL, sword iris comes out. It's pretty handy actually because at least I'll still hit them with something. *only uses BBL if there's a rod up because otherwise it's not worth it*

But that requires setups ahead of time. And if you already have a convenient rod and miraculously have pumpkin, why would you waste that opportunity with j2C? Also, they can DP when she goes for the special cancel. Invincibility keeps them safe from setups while you eat the DP and possibly a 3-4k combo. One sort of not really notable advantage to being totally gimped is you'll find opponents taking a lot more risks because: win they do 3-4k damage (or higher). lose they eat 1.3kish damage... 2k if Rachel has heat. If you win these bets every time, you can get a life lead for a time out win. So basically, if your opponent is cautious and knows what their doing... you're kinda screwed. Except against Hazama because you can run away better than he can.

I'll try to find time to make changes, but from what I've seen, you can cancel j2C into specials on hit. Just it's not a good idea as you'll get beat up for it. Well... j2C is in general a bad idea unless it's a level 2 or 3 and you're sure for a hit.

I'll check it out again when I go to Robo-alex's on Monday, but from when I played it felt like less CH hit stun. Or maybe it's more recovery because I couldn't just spam 6A after 6A CH. Also I noticed in a lot of earlier videos players were whiffing 6A CH combos. I'll fix it so Soniti can head desk at reading all of it, or copy and paste it like how a mom uses a pair of tongs to throw away a dirty diaper. God of Olympus- ground BBL as far as I notice doesn't activate any faster than it did in CT. Air BBL I did pick up on being faster. Now it matches ground BBL so if I accidentally TK super I rage less.

Quite possibly the most depressing thing I've ever written. Feel free to correct me because some of the changes I'm not sure on, but this is for Soniti who isn't quite as masochistic as I am. Compilations to massive nerf ba... erm changes for Rachel in CS EDIT: Added mentioned changes. Normals 2A- Same 5A- Same 6A NERF: Slower recovery, more narrow hit box, less stun on CH 2B NERF: Prorates more 4B BUFF: A little faster (like 4-5 frames?). Takes off one guard primer. 5B- Same 6B NERF: Much shorter hitstun on CH, does not normal cancel 2C BUFF: Faster start up, wider hitbox 3C NERF: Hard to combo from 3C9D. Certain links no longer work 3C9D->6C. Slower recovery. 5C- Same 5C C BUFF?: Wall bounces when opponent is in the air. Can loop wall bounces. Takes off one guard primer. 6C BUFF: Height requirement removed. 6C -> j2C is maybe possible? Drive- BUFF: Charges up faster if Rachel has two or more wind stock. NERF/CHANGE: For some reason charges up faster if she has no wind vs. when she has one stock. NERF: Does not charge while Rachel is OTG. jA NERF: Not an overhead, hitbox changed? jB- Same jC BUFF: Hits some crouching opponents now. Can link to BBL. NERF: Less hitstun. j2C NERF: Cannot cancel on block. Can cancel into specials on hit. Can cancel into specials and 2C on landing. Cannot jump cancel. Punishable on hit. CHANGE: Level 2 and 3 take off one guard primer. Specials Tiny Lobelia BUFF: A Lobelia has shorter recovery. NERF: Less damage. Less hit stun. Rod is not guaranteed when Rachel is hit. B and C lobelia have longer recovery. CHANGE/NERF?: Bounces off of projectiles. Seeds become active for Sword Iris on bounce. Sword Iris BUFF: Can be used in mid-air. Seed no longer has to be in the ground to activate. CHANGE: Command is now 214C NERF: I remember reading somewhere about a hitstun nerf, but not sure. Impish... Pumpkin NERF: Much much slower on the ground. Slower in the air. Less hit stun. Less block stun. Less active frames. Not guaranteed while winded. Shorter flying distance. Disappears after a certain amount of time. BUFF: Can be winded any number of times. George XIII BUFF/CHANGE?: Does not jump, but can be moved with wind. Can activate while being winded. Can only be winded towards the opponent. Has a cool down meter after activation. NERF: Prorates damage to hell. Distortion Drive Baden Baden Lily NERF: Does shit damage overall. Lily(body) 320×6 〔1295(6HIT)〕 Lily(rod) 560×4 〔1586(4HIT)] BUFF: Activation time in air is about the same as ground now. Takes off one guard primer. Tempest Dahlia Command is 632146B. Can be used in the air. Can combo into itself. Has very little invincibility, but projectiles don't disappear if Rachel gets hit. Slow and easy to block. Safe on block. Throws out different things depending on how much wind Rachel has left. -4 winds (2200 dmg) two cows, giant pumpkin, King George (George shocks on hit and causes a bounce that can't be recovered from until landing) -3 winds (1800 dmg) two bats, two cow, giant pumpkin -2 winds (1600 dmg) four bats, cow -1 wind (1400 dmg) five bats, minimal stun Astral Heat Clownish Calendula- Same

Has anyone experimented further with the lobelia being "active" on bounce? It's probably another useless and weird change for Rachel, but it might be worth poking at.

Play a Rachel mirror. Then you know what despair is. It's like watching two kids with nubs for arms trying to smack at each other, but they can't reach because they have nubs.

No one really cares about that level even though the majority of us play at that level. But yeah, Rachel vs. Tager doesn't look so one-sided until you realize you can jA spam and wind+pumpkin everything. CT Tager's not really so bad when he gets in though. Just that's a huge uphill battle. CS Rachel's not scary no matter where she is. CS Rachel's not suuuper terrible at casual level. Just you have to lrn2block.

According to the cumulative match up chart, she's either as bad or close match-up wise (somewhere between -12 and -15). She has an anti-air and better options than CT Tager, but she can't capitalize on mistakes with massive soviet damage. She's lacking a 2-8 though. But that could develop if she doesn't improve while other characters do.