Teyah

Two new videos from wx3873, featuring Quad-screen action First vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIOncPP3VsA Ky vs Millia, Potemkin vs Chipp, Demonstration, Millia vs Potemkin Second vid, looks like a few moments later, same row of cabinets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JznJ0LyHba4 Ky vs Millia, Character select / Millia vs Sol, Venom vs Chipp, Millia vs Potemkin

Initial impressions on +R so far: Sol: This dude is fun - like really fun! Unfortunately he is still terrible. FB Sidewinder is a huge buff and having Fafnir back means he can actually turn pokes into damage and mixup (sometimes). Millia: Her combos are way easier now, but in exchange they deal no damage and don't corner carry as well. At least the new K Pin and air FB disc changes are cool though. #R copter means that she can convert stray high up air hits into knockdowns now too. Eddie: Overall I'm happy with the Eddie changes, though he is a little boring to play now (2K nerf, why). Taking away easy double/triple UBs was a good step and the #R shadow is pretty fun, although its use is limited mostly to corner setups. Zappa: This character is pretty fair until the sword comes out. Then it's ggs Dizzy: The dumbest character I've seen in awhile. It's like fighting #Reload Dizzy's endless fish barrage but also with ridiculous force breaks and a j.2S that shits all over your air to air and anti-airs.

Just announced on the Xrd and arcsys websites: Location testing to begin, August 9-12, 10 AM to midnight, at Sega Akihabara Building 1 4th Floor: http://ggxrd.com/wanted/ http://contentssync-arcsystemworks.ambel.info/index.cgi?eid=1008

Sadly there is no way to fill a 4:3 screen completely on the PS3/360 port of AC+. However the PS3 version has a video option that allows you to zoom in, reducing some (not all) of the sidebars and filling more screen space on 4:3 TVs. Best used with black sidebars so you don't have half a logo/character on each side.

Due to hitstop or gaps between hits, meaty multi-hit moves used as oki are very much able to be SB'd on your wakeup. (eg. Baiken 2H, Ky CSE, Robo missile)

#reloadonline is still alive and well, but I think only shinkan still plays. Most of us are there for general GG / fighting game talk and are patiently waiting for +R. Also if you're that KillerQLeon guy - people have asked that you stop dropping after every match, as it's kind of silly when there's only like 2 people who play #R online and that sort of thing still happens

Both Millia's Bad Moon and Eddie's Shadow Gallery have FRCs that let you combo afterward, but if you're going for max damage, you need to RC to get a more damaging combo. -RCing a Bad Moon lets Millia keep her pin and get a standard launch, as opposed to the awkward low-damage j.K xx Pin FRC followup. -Eddie's SG is mainly used for a knockdown with the FRC currently, but with the mine UB returning in +R, you can do corner TKSG RC (2nd hit) -> airdash for a high damage followup.

Kliff got a pretty huge health buff, since his defense modifier used to be 1.31 back in the older games. Justice also increased in health (but only slightly) as she had a 1.06 modifier before.

May as well add this in. I tested PS3 and 360 GGXXAC+ via HDMI on my HD CRT TV, both show the same Delay 3 / Delay 4 as found on the non-HD CRT tests via composite video. So HDMI doesn't inherently cause lag, from what I have seen.

Oh, the +2F refers to the arcade version only, which runs at 2F delay for AC but has likely been bumped up to 4F for ACR. I very much doubt that Arcsys would increase the delay of the console versions by 2F as well. I do have confidence that their team is aware of the input delay issue and would test the consoles to see how much delay they need to add to bring it in line with the arcade version of AC+R, to which the answer would be none (or maybe 1F to the PS3 version only). reaVer: For some reason I wasn't able to get nullDC to run at a consistent 60 fps on my desktop computer, and the stick with the LED doesn't work with my laptop setup. I'll test it from my laptop with a different stick and try to eyeball the button press (like I did with the PS2) a little later. Mitsurugi: Thanks!

The lowest input lag possible in any game is 1 frame after input, since the result cannot occur on the zero frame (the game would have to be able to read your mind to do that). On top of this, there were previous findings (back in 2004-2005) showing that there is a 1 frame input buffer in GG. This would bring the lowest possible delay to 2F, which is in line with #R PC and emulated arcade results above. If there is any added delay by Demul it is negligible. The way to differentiate between situations where the input arrives at the beginning of the input frame (0.0 ms) and at the end of the input frame (16.6 ms) is to simply perform a large number of trials and determine where the average falls. In the tests above, the large majority (85-95%) fell within the delay frames I've shown above. I just mentioned the comparison made by Elvenshadow and other japanese players because it backs up my findings - that PS2 version runs with extra input delay compared to arcade, which people have reported previously. All CRT tests were done using analog signals. Composite for all tests to CRT TVs, Component to HD CRT TVs. VGA was used for the CRT monitor. All CRTs were consistent with their results - eg. Xbox 360 GGAC+ showed Delay 4 when tested on all of regular CRT via composite, HD CRT via component, and CRT monitor via Xbox VGA cable, in roughly 90% of all trials.

(edited) All LCD monitors have lag

The incomplete animation is the CRT rendering that frame - it doesn't finish until the next frame. This is typically how input delay results have been historically recorded - you count up to the completed frame in the delay count. Depending on the camera capture syncing (which I can't control, outside of taking multiple passes which I did), that incomplete frame may not have even shown up, and a good chunk of the time it doesn't. Sometimes, the "incomplete frame" is only captured for the top 20% of the screen, where there is no useful information at all (generally). Other times, the incomplete frame is skipped in recording and the total delay frames are the same as above. Either way, the refreshing of the frame isn't complete so it isn't counted. I actually made sure I included the updating frame in the above pics for comparability's sake - otherwise there would be the question of whether the frame shown is the updating frame - this way there's no confusion on that end.

Hi guys - you might recall that I mentioned that I would be testing the new PS3/360 ports of AC+ and comparing them to arcade/PS2 AC. Well, I finally got around to dusting off my PS3 and testing that version and finishing off the tests, which you can see for yourself below, in .gif form. I might compile these into a video in the future, but for now I just thought I'd let you guys know where the different versions stand in terms of input delay. First of all I'd like to mention the methods I used. I used the red LED light on a TE Kitty to time the input of a button press to the exact frame, then counted the number of frames until the first frame of animation, using a 60 fps camera to capture video. I used Faust's 5D as the button input, since it has a huge first-frame animation (the huge tornado spin). I took several passes of video for all versions of each port and confirmed that the results shown below were, by far, the most common result. Roughly 90% of the time, the results were as shown below, the other 10% of the time they were one frame slower - this is likely due to variances in input timings (whether the input arrives at the beginning or end of the frame buffer). After taking roughly 100 tests per port, I can say with confidence that these input delay results are accurate. Here's a list of the equipment that I used: Canon PowerShot SD800IS - used for taking 60 fps video Panasonic CRT TV - Panasonic is known (and tested by me) to have the lowest lag CRTs on the market, especially when it comes to HD CRTs. This CRT was confirmed to be 100% lagless. I've also tested 360 and PS3 AC+ on my Panasonic HD CRT TV with the same results as shown below. Samsung SyncMaster 955 DF - a zero-delay CRT computer monitor, used to test AC arcade and #R AC, as well as 360 AC+ PC running Demul @ 60 fps - used to test AC Arcade input delay PS2, PS3, Xbox 360 consoles - for testing GGXXAC+ Now for the results. Watch the red LED light to see when the zero frame of input is. Fastest: Delay 2 GGXXAC Naomi (Arcade) version - emulated via Demul The arcade version runs with a native delay of 2 frames via emulation. This is consistent with other players' findings - Elvenshadow and others have mentioned that they can immediately feel the difference when switching from arcade AC to console AC, and this is most likely the cause. The arcade version runs the fastest out of all of them. GGXX #Reload PC version The PC release of #Reload has been very popular in online circles and now it's not hard to see why - it has only 2 frames of native input delay. As the only existing port of the GG series that has been able to match the input delay of the arcade, playing online on #R PC can feel seamless. At an in-game online delay setting of 2, which allows you to play players within close proximity, it matches the delay of the other console versions (except PS3). Offline, it's a 100% accurate arcade port, as far as input delay is concerned - which is something that no other port of GG can say. Next fastest: Delay 3 GGXXAC+ PS3 The PS3 version of AC+R runs at a native delay setting of 3, which falls in between arcade AC and console (PS2) AC. This is a new standard and might be tough for players of other versions to adapt to - it certainly was for me, as I was dropping a ton of Millia air combos on my first set of matches on AC+ PS3 on a CRT. However, if you're playing on a low-latency LCD screen, the total delay will end up being 4 to 5 frames, because of additional LCD delay. In this case, it's much better to choose the PS3 version, as you would then be playing in a delay setting similar to PS2. For online play, while the PS3 version beats out the 360 in terms of offline delay, the PS3's less than stellar online play reduces this advantage that this version has over the 360. In the end it's tough to say which version is better for online. If you know your opponent is not using wireless and plays close by, it would likely be best to play on PS3 though. Slowest (the rest): Delay 4 GGXXAC+ PS2 Interestingly (and sadly), the PS2 version actually runs with 4 frames of delay as well. This may very well explain why things like 5D "only hit in America" - because "America" (console players) have 2 fewer frames to react, compared to arcade players! Thankfully, this will be getting fixed with AC+R, with 5Ds and other reactable things being slowed down to match the higher delay setting that AC+R uses. Please note: the reason that the screen doesn't begin updating a frame earlier is due to the syncing of the camera and the TV. I did take multiple videos to test across multiple CRTs, but in this case, I forgot to turn off the camera between sets so they all sync up this way. Also, the LED does not turn on, because the LED functionality doesn't work on the PS2 connector. However if you eyeball the button press, you can see that it matches up with the other videos and is a reasonable basis for calculating delay - especially with over 100 trials being done to make sure the numbers are reliable. GGXXAC+ Xbox 360 The 360 version of AC+R runs at the same delay setting as the PS2 version. I tested this one on the CRT computer monitor as well, with the same results of 4 frames of delay. Also, it may just be me and others I play with, but it feels as if the 360 version runs smoother than the PS3 version - it doesn't have any slowdown during gameplay. In this sense it would be "PS2-perfect" as the PS2 doesn't have slowdown either, though PS3 feels like it has some. I'm going to find a way to test this in the future, so take this info with a grain of salt for now. Full gallery of results here: http://imgur.com/a/GFfs5#0 Now, the good news. GGXXAC+R will be coming in Spring 2013. This game has slowed down reactable overheads and other similar moves by 2 frames. As well, many players have noticed increased input delay which is the standard for current generation games (almost all run at delay 4 or above). So, it is a good assumption for now, that AC+R will increase from native delay 2 to native delay 4. This would make the online experience a lot smoother in terms of not being hit as easily by unreactable dusts and things of that nature, since the game itself is being changed to allow more time to block certain types of mixups. As console players, we shouldn't notice any difference at all, since we've been playing in delay 4 ever since the PS2 ages. We may even actually have a port that is less laggy than the arcade version, as arcade may be running at delay 4 while PS3 runs at delay 3. We'll just have to wait and see. Please leave questions or comments below, I'll be happy to answer. Merry Christmas!

Very nice! Can't wait to hop on and start messing around with this. Major props to you, sir.

360 port, training mode. He said it happened while practicing Nobiru (shadow S) combos.

Friend found this bug. Instead of summoning Eddie, sometimes you will summon... Anji :8/:

This is actually a really good idea. I'm compiling a list of moves with bugged sfx which I'll edit into this post as I go through each character. Since the Wii version (and only the Wii version) also had these bugs, it's safe to assume other Wii bugs could have made it through to this one - does anyone know of any other Wii issues?

Once it hits PSN in my area I'll finish my tests and post the results, probably in video format. For those wondering, I used a 60 fps camera + button LEDs to test input delay on several versions of the game. As of now, I can say with 100% confidence that the 360 version is (to my surprise) 100% lagless at Delay 3-4 native delay on CRT, which is identical to the PS2, Wii, and arcade (emulated) versions. I expected lag mainly because my benchmark was skewed, as I'm too used to #R PC (which I tested to have native delay of 1-2) so everything else feels a bit laggy to me, lol.

I picked up a 19" 4:3 CRT monitor (Samsung 955DF) for $20 to play AC+ on new consoles. There are still sidebars, but if you play in 720p widescreen, turn the sidebars black, stretch and zoom the image, you can cut your wasted screen space by over 2/3. Might want to give this a shot if you want a bit more screen space.

It sounds like you don't understand how teching works in GG. You doknow when the drops can come (hint: it's based on hitstun of the prior attack) so you time your techs accordingly. If you just mash tech you're probably throwing out attacks on your way down, which any decent player will take advantage of and wreck you for doing.

No. None of this "hold button for combos" shit in GG. Either hit them or don't, and if you can't, practice some more until you can or use easier combos. Black beat combos are a way that players get punished for not timing theirr techs properly. They also happen when someone goes for a neutral tech and the other guy reads it (this could be what you're seeing). Anyway, actually needing to time your techs keeps the defender more engaged since you actually have to match the rythym of attacks/hitstun from the attacker so I don't see the value in removing it.

So has anyone found any bugs/oddities yet with the XBL port? I mean confirmable things, not stuff like "I think it runs faster than _____ version!" The first strange thing I noticed immediately when I booted it up is that Millia's 5P/2P/j.P have the wrong sound effect (sounds like a slap/hit rather than a stab). At first I thought maybe the demo didn't have all of the sfx unlocked but then I tried the full version and it's the same there. And then there's the mission mode / invite bug that was mentioned a little ways back. You guys noticed anything else like this?

What the - of all the things to complain about with the netcode, you choose to lobby for... lobbies? I think it's more important to actually have functional, smooth netcode that doesn't slow down anytime anything happens onscreen. I don't get how one guy could create a hacked dll for #Reload on PC that turns out to have better netcode than what we have with AC+ atm.

No, all versions of GG run at the same speed of 60 fps. When playing Xbox 360 online AC+, the fps dips and varies a hell of a lot though, which are the speed bumps you tend to notice. The other difference is in the native input delay - Arcade, Wii and PS2 versions of AC all run at (roughly) Delay 3. The only version that runs faster is #Reload on PC, which has an average delay of 1.5 instead(!). Data to back this up will be coming shortly along with data for the native delay of X360/PS3 AC+. No idea what AC+R runs at but most likely a higher amount.