FlyingVe
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As for traps I do use: AC>(pause)>(jump)>land>360/720 2C>(pause)xxAC [intentionally miss the gattling, if they tech you get an unprorated combo, if not, normal combo] 360B>5B>AC (360A will work on Ragna and Tager) (corner) 6C>(JC)>j2C>5Bxx360B AC>Bsledge>5AxxAC Also, learn the good throw combo (throw is Tagers fastest non-720 move): B+C>Bsledge>(pause)>5C>6B>AC (works on most of the cast) And, the CH 2C combo (substitute 2D for sledge if you need Mag): CH 2C>(voltaic charge if your ballsy)>5C>6A>AC>Bsledge>followup or 5A tech trap
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Yeah, now you know why i hate the Bug throwing SOB so much, both of my characters have unbelievably bad matchups with him. As for tech traps, it really depends on who you're fighting and what situation. Most people start by learning alot of simple AC traps, those really only work on newer players because more experience people know them. I am a big fan of the more basic traps, for example, after knocking someone down, jump at them, this creates a guessing game (not a good one, but it's Tager) between baiting, jB, and landing into a throw. Overall though, as the players you fight get better and better, tech traps become a much smaller part of Tager's game. Also, 5C is Tager's only good normal, ChanceWizard taught me to love it.
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Hmm... Does the PS2 version have online play? It might be worth getting an imported one. The PS2 I have is one of the launch models, and I don't like the idea of ripping the tray door off. I'm trying to remember the characters I switched in Fighting games, SSBM: Luigi/Jiglypuff > Samus/Falco GG: Sol/May>Jam/Potemkin BB: Jin/Noel > Ragna/Tager SF4: Guile/Viper>Juri/Abel (god this game pisses me off)
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I was thinking about getting the PS2 version of the game, partly because I wanted to play Ryougi. She was awesome as hell in the anime, and she looks pretty cool in the game as well. Though seeing as she is only in the console version, and I'll have to jump through alot of hoops to get that to run (import) I might wind up getting the old PC version. OUt of those characters the most appealing to me seems like Akiha, or Nanaya Shiki. But I have never once been right about which character I wanted to play, so who knows who I'll wind up with (hell I've even played Zoners before). White Len sounds like you though (fucking lolicon
). From the vids I've seen she looks alot like rachel with all kinds of weird zoning and pressure. However, there is another Loli on the cast if memory serves... -
You can look at Kaqn, but alot of his style (and playing CT Ragna in general) is Yomi and conditioning, and no amount of videos will teach you that. You also won't end many combo's with GH, sometimes I will use it after 5D against Tager because the Dash6A follow-up gets screwy and wiffing against him hurts alot (I can't count the number of times I've been 720'D because of his screwy hitbox causing things to wiff). However, GH is still a decent mixup with meter to back it up, and seeing as you can't follow it up without a Counter hit or TK, knowing the following traps is useful. Yes, i do play Tager, quite well in fact. Some people may get upset when I say this, but I have one of the best Tager's on XBL (IMO). He's a very basic character, you can get all of his stuff down an a couple of days, but to be effective you need to watch your opponent, and not cock-up back-dashes like i sometimes do.
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ChanceWizard is doing it on prediction, not reaction. I asked him how he was grabbing my 5B's (ragna) on reaction and he said I was being predictable. I would imagine its the same for everyone. As for the IBing, the dude is good. Finally, I am not an expert on Noel or Jin, but I would be interested in hearing details on why it is or isn't so bad. From what I've seen, I would agree with Shynkz, it's in Jins favor sure, but how it could possibly be as bad as arakune I can't figure.
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I want to learn Melty Blood really bad, but I'm not sure how to deal with running it, being an import and all. My understanding is that the PS3's are still region locked for PS2 games. I don't want to spend $70 and not be able to play the game. How do you do it? Also, I'm still learning SF4 so you wouldn't be out of you league or anything. Just learning with us.
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We're actually all agreeing with each other on how the match-ups work, just arguing over how severe they are. in my opinion, for ragna to win against an equally skilled opponent, he needs to guess right, or wait for the Arakune to screw up. To me, relying on luck and screw-ups sounds like a 3-7, but, to each his own.
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I can see rachel being like that, but as long as you can block her mixup you can force her to respect your DP. Her lobelias are only a temporary defense, and once you're in its tough for her to get you off. Also, the cat chair isn't really that big of a threat, just don't do bounce strings over and over, and you will be able to react to the chair most times. By doing this and applying throws to your mixup Rachel will be damned nervous about using her crappy cat-chair. I agree on Nu, however, it's important to note that her damage output means that she only really has to hit you 2 or three times to give you a dirt nap. This matchup varies alot depending on how goo nu is, but it is 4-6 at best, probably worse. Carl really isn't all that bad, you can out range him in the air and ground and make it very difficult to impossible for Carl to approach safely, and ID will make him nervous about doing too much sandwich pressure. Again, if you can separate him fro his puppet, its over. Arakune is 3-7, all of ragna's options are crazy unreliable, and when they don't work (which is often) you get cursed and lose soon after. Also, ragna can not deal with the shield cloud. He gets it, you will get cursed (barring him not doing something dumb), and will likely lose. Ragna's size also makes Arakunes corner trap slightly more effective. As for hakumen, you absolutely have to respect his options, don't do alot of predictable bounce strings and you can scar him from countering too much. It's alot like what I said about pressuring rachel and her cat-chair, except Hakumen is a much worse character.
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In that case, I'd also like to throw out my ragna matchup thoughts. vs tao 4.5-5.5 - Tao's mobility makes it hard to approach her and her drives are difficult to AA and she can bait the AA. Also, she can lo profile an alarming number of ragna's normals with crawl. However, she lacks defensive options and has trouble getting out of the corner. vs jin 5-5 -5B vs jB. ID and 6A gives ragna the tools to compete with jin. The Ragna player has to be more on point, but the match is about even. vs tager 6-4 -Tager sucks. Ragna still has to take a few risks but you can just poke Tager from outside his range, and he ain't getting away. vs rachel 5-5 -once again ID makes Rachel's pressure less bulletproof. His range also makes getting around the spam easier. However, Rachel is still Rachel, you get cornered and you lose, Her damage output doesn't help either. vs nu 3.5-6.5 -Nu is very risky to ID and Ragna's big hitbox and clumsy jump make getting through swords annoying. If Ragna gets in, he can lop off most of her health in one go. vs carl 5-5 -Carl is annoying, but, if you get around the puppet, he's just a whiny little boy, and you can cut him bad. vs arakune 3-7 -F#%$ Arakune, I don't need to explain this one vs bang 5.5-4.5 -Bang has good tools, but so does Ragna, and Ragna does good damage. vs noel 5-5 -Ragna as the better over-all moves and damage, but alot of Noels attacks can really screw with Ragna. Moves like 5D,2D,3C,5C beat the majority of ragna's normals, but lose to a few others. Alot of times it feels like a guessing game when approaching. vs haku-men 6-4 -Both characters have good range and damage. Counters are a massive threat, but Ragna's mobility means that he's usually in control of this match. vs litchi 5.5-4.5 -Litchi has range, but her pokes are slow and lose to Ragnas. ID is also a potential answer to the corner trap.
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With Tager, yes. He doesn't have anything to stop jin from just jumping into jB over and over again except IB'ing or an exquisitely timed back-dash. In short, Jin's Air to Ground is amazing and Tager's anti-air game is non-existant.
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My opinion on Tager's CT match-ups for what it's worth (I am no expert): Ragna: 4-6 Jin: 3.5-6.5 Noel: 4-6 Tao: 3.5-6.5 Litchi: 3.5-6.5 Nu: 3-7 Arakune: 2-8 Carl: 2-8 Hakumen: 5-5 Rachel: 3-7 Bang: 4.5-5.5 Basically Tager sucks...
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As a Tager I agree, Carl and Arakune are much worse than Nu. Also 7-3 is a pretty catastrophically bad matchup as is. The other two (arakune and Carl) are borderline un-winnable.
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You have to wait just a smidge before you start mashing C after pulling yourself up with 4D~D. If you to it to early or too late you will wiff, and likely get hurt for it. Also, just to be sure we're clear 214B# means jCx5>(JC)>jCx5>214B.
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As for Hazama, I actually didn't land the DD as a Fatal counter a whole lot. My competition wasn't the greatest so I pretty much got the enemy cornered and just kept frame trapping them with Jump cancels and 5B. Against more skilled opponents IBing might be more important, especially against Bang and Carl. A lot of my opponents would mash out a Jayoku every now and then, but I refuse to mash, and don't recommend it. In my eyes, by mashing, you are limiting how good you can get at a game in favor of relying on luck.
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Baikenv's pressure seems like something that only works for him (kinda like MikeZ and 2C), if you look at all the top ragna's (me, seifuku, fallout, Baikenv) we all play very differently and you will develop your own style in time. 6A>IAD>5C is probably working because well... it's weird, people won't expect it, however, you can always combo off the 6A and that is a more solid strategy (I hate gimmicks). However, if you end a combo with GH, and can't follow up, IAD jA/jC/jD/throw, and sometimes dash6A is a decent follow-up. As for the rapid cancel stuff, that is a bit harder, but it's a good skill to learn (you might notice ragna players love RC even when they aren't ragna). If you could tell me what specifically was wrong, I might be able to offer some advice.
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To be honest the thing I'm struggling with most is just the timing on everything, but that just boils down to practice I figure (I can do it in training, but I speed up in a match
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If you have any general advice on how to play the game, or specific thoughts on Juri and Abel, I'd love to here them. -
^^ to add to that if you IB 5C, you should be able to ID him even if he does nothing, as the recovery on Ragna's 5C is pretty bad. Yet another reason to leave 5C out of bockstrings (mostly). Also, I really, really, hate this mirror match.
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Absolutely! I haven't been on BB a whole lot lately, so I might be a bit rusty, but I'd be more than happy to show/teach you anything you want to know. Just send me a message/invite/friend request anytime I'm on and I should be available.
