Ronove

What? So the taunt loop is going to survive from the rebalancing they've announced? [edit] oh wait, I realized that maybe you still don't about the fact they're going to rebalance the game for console release? I was making assumptions based on the latest news since chances are that the developers might remove Tao's taunt loop as part of that process. It wasn't referred to me giving up on the loop (how could I, after spending so much effort to get it down). If you were aware of the news then completely ignore this edit. Anyway, I'd find it odd for ArcSys to announce a rebalance and then in the end leave the taunt loop as it is. It would make sense if they removed it and then improved Tao's damage output through other means in order to not weaken the character will taking out an "undesired" aspect of her game (supposing that the Taunt loop was unintended on the developers' side).

I like the loop for the plain fact that executing it succesfully really feels rewarding, but at the same time I agree that it is something that probably wasn't intended to be there and looks pretty much "boring" to see (atleast to all the other people who don't use Tao). We'll probably still have our regular single taunt/double taunt combos, I hope...

With the recent news about the rebalancing in the console version I think we can safely assume that the taunt loop is probably going to say goodbye. Which kind of makes me feel like an idiot for having spent a lot of time (and money) for the purpose of learning it. Oh well, I am sure that without her loop she's probably going to become less intimidating in terms of learning curve and manuality, but I also hope that they're going to change other aspects of her game for the better to compensate for the removal of that loop, else she's going to end as a bottom tier character...

True, I suppose that's what makes her j.D~B not that easy to predict. I noticed a lot of Taos were succesfully able to get in and sneak a 5B/2A upon landing since their opponents had little time to react given the reasons you stated. Regarding ground 5D~B on hit: yes in the end all I could do was block, and sometimes throw if I was expecting a move with a long startup (longer than the throw). But I guess it'll depend on matchups. For sure I can tell you that against Litchi anything beyond blocking after a hitconfirmed 5D~B is not going to be safe if the Litchi player is mashing on 2A/5A.

Ground 5D~B on hit is still not completely safe. When I played our local Litchi player last weekend I got a nice counter from her 2A right as I landed on the other side while I was attempting to 2A as well. However in other occasions I did manage to sneak a 2A or do a grab/block. I am still trying to figure out why sometimes I would be caught in counter, I think it might depend on whether the opponent has buffered their moves during the blockstun making them come out at the first available frame while ours is still in its activation ones. Jumping out of it is a big no since they'll just 5A/5B/whatever fast normal they have as ghetto AA. And if you think about it, I've rarely seen japanese players using 5D~B even in CS, they seem get punished for it even when it does hit, they prefer doing 5D~C to reset their pressure or 2D~B/jump. j.D~B apparently seems to have less recovery so that might be why they like it so much to use it.

Oh yes, forgot to mention I've been using 214D/IAD into airthrow a lot in CS, since it leads to 4k+ damage. It's actually become even more useful than it was in CT since her ground throw got nerfed so much that all my previous setups and mixups that I adopted in CT are simply not usable anymore (or require to input a dash which basically provide room to the opponent for jabbing or teching the throw on reaction). Kara-throw at close range gets stuffed in a lot matchups.

This is kind of a general question, not specifically related to a particular match-up: how are you guys approaching the opponent now in CS? I noticed that a lot of the japanese Taos like to j.5D~B to get close, because it's fast and doesn't have excessively long recovery with the new ~B cancel. It's weird though, because while 5D~B on ground is still unsafe (on block, and even on hit you can only do as much as block after or 2a/grab in a few cases) it should be the same for j.5D... I still use all the jumps when necessary, but seeing all these japanese players effectively closing in with j.5D~B makes me want to try it more. In certain matchups (like vs Litchi, I am beginning to hate her ) getting in while avoiding any pokes/AA has become a little problematic, especially since she has such low health I can't really let myself get hit by situational hitconfirms (again, Litchi...).

just do 5C rather than Taunt and follow straight with the vertical drive loop. That should work if I recall correctly.

Awesome post boss, thanks a lot. The cause on my part that makes me still not complete the taunt loop 50% of the times is the 214D spacing, it's true as you said that Tao needs to be slightly above, else once we hitconfirm the 2d~b the opponent bounces high rather than bouncing forward. I think that is the trickiest part (atleast for me). ~B timing, JC and all the other stuff is on 100% (heck they have to be, it got so much easier than CT). @XDest That video still lacks a few combos (like the 3C > no hit 5D~C > j.2D~B ones) but as far as important BnB's go it's pretty useful. Good find!

I only played against an Hazama a month ago at a ranbat and it was my first time getting familiar with that matchup, so I know what you're talking about when you say that at first you need to get around his zoning. Since I still lack enough experience I can't really give any solid tip but one of the things I noticed works well when they're zoning the air (in case we jump/IAD/j.5D) is to go for j.4D and a lot of ~C feints, trying to make him guess wrong. However it's certainly not as easy to get in as it was against Nu in CT or Lambda in CS, or maybe we simply still have to figure out a better approach. Oh yeah, at full screen distance maybe 214A/B could be useful, they're not THAT awesome but they might keep the Hazama distracted long enough to close the distance atleast near midscreen or 3/4

@Cake I'm around 50% consistency, I can only practice this on weekends so this is probably an other reason. I did figure out the correct timing, but getting it into muscle memory and avoid rushing the damn j.2D~B after 214D is proving to be harder than I thought. I think I'll eventually get to 100% within a month though, I guess I'll have to find a way to practice this stuff regularly every day. x_x

Boss TaoFTW greenlighted it, we both agreed that this area kind of lacked activity and discussion other than the combo thread(s). So here you have it your CS general discussion thread for all things Tao related, hoping this will revive the subforum a bit. And since we need some kind of starting topic, how have you guys been faring so far with CS Tao? I'm still adjusting to all the old matchups, Litchi so far has been the character that's been giving me most trouble, I swear her 5A and 5B scare the shit out of me, not to mention her freaking abare Oh and while I do like the guard primer system (we can finally block for a while!) I really need to get used to her low health. Screwing a jump-in > punishment > 1/3 of Tao's healthbar gone x_x

I've tried a few times but I noticed that sometimes the 2D after 5C will whiff (but I guess it's a matter of how quick the 5C connects), so usually I prefer to insert 236AA because it makes it 100% certain to get it right and follow with the short vertical drive loop. Also, I'm slowly figuring out the timing (midscreen) for the taunt loop string. Basically as you said earlier you need to wait a fraction of second between the 214D and j.2D~B to hit at the right height so that Tao won't surpass the opponent. What I do is to input 214D and hold stick on 4 a bit more after pressing D then do 3D~B. However I also noticed that the time window where we can input the ~B cancel during this string is shorter than the 6A(1) > j.2D~B window. So you REALLY have to nail that ~B cancel right when you delay the j.2D after the 214D.

Shouldn't you have posted this in the video thread...? Anyway, I lol'd when I saw you attempting the old CT ender and realized that you couldn't do 3D~3 > 236Bx5 after the vertical drive loop because the 3D would whiff since you were far below him in the air. This has so happened to me as well I can totally relate with you; it's hard to shrug off old CT habits, hehe. Other than that, you didn't do that bad, but Spirit Juice was really playing laid back, not pressing nor capitalizing that much on oki situations. I suppose he was kidding around, but you still could have won that just to make him feel sorry he should have tried harder. Sadly for Tao her health is so stupid low that the opponent may get 1/3 of our lifebar just with air pokes and normals. IMO Tao is no more a "high risk" character for the plain simple reason that you can't take any risks at all since the punishment is just too much for her. Gotta keep it simple and only attempt certain risky mixups if you know your opponent's habits. One thing though: whenever you're midscreen with a 3C, rather than doing the no hit combo > vertical drive stuff > cat2loop, if you're still not confident enough you can use this: 3C > 5D~B(hit) > 5C > 236AA > 2D~9 > j.C > 9D~9 > 3D~3 > 236Bx5 Ye old CT combo that work in CS, does around 3k/3.1K damage. It's not A LOT but it's easy to pull of and it's better to be sure to always land 3K rather than risking a harder combo and land only 2K because the final 236Bx5 whiffed. I'm using this while I am slowly getting more familiar and confident with the taunt loops.

Don't start immediately with the drive cancel combos. Learn her stuff step by step. Start with simple air combos like 5B > 6A > j.A > j.C > jump cancel > j.A > j.C > jump cancel > j.A > j.C > j.236BBBB Once you're confidend enough when staying in the air then move to learn her basic drive loops BnB (5B > 3C > 5D~6 > etc etc), you can find them in the combo thread. But really, don't rush things out by immediately going for ~b/~a cancel combos or taunt ones. Tao is not a character you can learn in a day nor in a week or two. You need time and patience to gradually muscle memorize her patterns and strings, but she's not insanely hard. It simply takes time and practice. Once you have the drive loop down you'll realize that her learning curve becomes not as tough as it looks.

Never bothered to end it with a super because landing a 2C FC has been so rare for me that I never bothered practicing some damaging ender. The people I spar with know of that setup and will always be on alert if I attempt footsies > 2C.

Tao can be practiced but her BnBs are totally different. Hence in terms of playing style (both offense, defense, pressure game, etc) you can practice her in CT and be fine in CS, but in terms of plain combo practice and manuality you'll still have to learn a good bit of new stuff. I can do all of Tao's BnB combos in CT, including taunt and double taunt ones, but I'm still far from having mastered her new stuff in CS. So keep this in mind.

Yeah, due to the fact that her health is the lowest in the game and that her defensive tools are pretty poor you have to gain a big lead whenever you're given the chance. I think that in some of her CS matchups (like vs Litchi) the opponent doesn't even need to attempt full combos but simply use short ones as long she keeps getting knocked down while being pushed to the corner. She really suffers against knockdown+corner resets without meter. Hence why I also agree with TaoFTW and Rin that the more damage we squeeze the more chances we have to survive and fight a possible comeback. It's pretty weird to say but her offense in CS now is practically her best way to defend. I'm personally not giving up yet. I'll probably learn an other character when the game will be out on consoles because Tao has simply become unplayable online (atleast for me, as I do not have a great internet connection), but I'm still maining her to any offline tournament and event that I'm attending to. Taunt loop is still far from being consistent but I'm seeing improvement (now I get three taunts almost regularly, gotta work on not bluebeating too much after the third one) and as Cake said, the payoff for all this hard work is worth it since Tao's abare skyrockets a lot once you're able to squeeze 4k damage of any throw, 5B, 3C etc. Knowing no taunt combos is still important though, not just because they're easier but because they are useful when you want to play resets after a no hit 5D~B (and then going 2B > 5C OTG > etc). Kazu has been doing this A LOT in his most recent vids, it's a good tool to fool with the opponent's mind.

No I think the best ones are still those that do incorporate the taunt loop (either 3C at the corner, or the midscreen ones that go like 3C > 5D~B > dash > Taunt > taunt loop string > etc etc). However it's pretty nice combo and the 5D~C (no hit) > j.2D~B isn't that hard as it could seem to be.

5B > 3C > 5D~C (no hit) > j.2D~B > Taunt > 214D > j.2D~B > Taunt > 214D > j.2D~B > 5C > 2D~9 > j.C > 9D~9 > 235Bx5 3.3k damage Pretty nice for a double taunt combo off 3C. By the way, was the CAT2 loop possible on single/double taunt combos? This is something I haven't checked out yet, it'd be pretty interesting if it was though.

Can't remember if this was already posted but CH j.C > (land) > 2D~5 > j.5D~6 > j.C > 9D~9 > j.C > 9D~9 > CAT2 loop Almost 3.6K damage. Pretty good anti-air combo, if you land a CH j.C at the right height from the ground (while the opponent is airborne) he'll be stunned for enough time for you to follow with the rest of the string.

on midscreen I do 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 3D~3 j.236Bx5 Now I'm trying to learn the cat2 loop since for all those time we get an occasional j.C/5C OTG and want to follow straight with an air combo. Do you guys input 3D~3 > j.236B as the old CT j.C > j.236B string? I mean, inputting the 2D/3D during the 236 motion (like "2D36B" or "23D6B"). Because I noticed that japanese players connect the 236B right as 2D hits which makes me thing that the motion they use is a 2-in-1. I really need to try this next time. If it's possible then it'd make the CAT2 loop actually pretty easy.

Actually a SF4 player of our community (Sean) got his stick robbed right during SvB last year. So I'd advice still being pretty careful (and always keep an eye on your stuff) when attending big events with lots of people. Btw, I might be attending SvB this year provided that I won't still be in Japan for my summer study vacation organized by my uni. :X

Yep, that's exactly what I noticed. And by inputting 8 instead of 9 it seems (for me, atleast) that I am able to keep the right distance and juggle the opponent at the right height. Mind you, I still do whiff this from time to time (and god knows how or when I'll be able to get a 90% success rate), but with this small correction I'm able to pull the loop off with a lot more consistence. At the very least I get 3 taunts in a row with little problem. :X