zeech

Hmm, I'm trying to do this easy combo in the corner: 5B > 2C > 5[C] > 6C > 236CC > 2D~9 > j.236Bx5 But the j.236Bx5 only ever gets 2-3 hits. Is there some sort of trick to it?

Probably, I dont have BBCSEX so I havent had much experience with Relius.

Ah thanks. So there arent any physics-based stuff in GG, and Eddie is the only character that has multi-character control? How do zappa's summons work? are they stationary like mines, or controllable like eddie's shadow?

Hi, BB was my introduction to ASW games, I've never played GG at all. One of the things I think is really interesting about BB compared to many other FGs, is the character specific mechanics. I imagine many of them were inherited from GG? And presumably each game has a few that the other game doesnt? Would someone care to make a brief list of the character specific mechanics in the latest GG? I just wanted to get an overview of the character mechanics in that game. As an example, here's one for BB: Physics based ones: -Tager: Magnetism - Rachael: Wind - Hazama: Chain movement Projectile based ones: - Nu/Lambda: Middle-ranged swords - Mu: Lasers/mines - Arakune: curse mode bugs - Platinum: Throwable items Character mechanic changing ones: - Valkenhein: Wolf transformation - Hakumen: Reversal/counterattack - Litchi: Pole/no pole (I guess Bang FRKZ might belong here...) Multiple character control ones: - Carl: Neesan - Relius: Ignis Not meaningfully different from standard attack ones: - Ragna: Life drain - Jin: Freeze - Bang: Autoguard + Seals - Taokaka: Flying dash attack - Makoto: Charge attack - Noel: Auto chain attack - Tsubaki: meter for special attacks

Hi, I'm primarily a KOF fan. KOF12 being awful made me give BBCT a try, and I was surprised and pleased by its overall quality (I'm not a competitive player so the problems in that game didnt concern me.) Through BBCT's netcode, I met members of my local scene and got a little bit more involved. So it's the first time I've ever been even vaguely competitive in FGs despite playing since KOF94 and SF2:WW back in the arcades. (I'm kinda old.) Now that KOF13 is out, I'm probably switching to that game, but I'm still interested in the health of BB. I have some questions and comments. I'd say my reaction is pretty typical of casual players, so it may or may not be relevant or useful. - Netplay tournaments and events. BB is probably the closest an officially-released FG can get to being playable online. (until SG comes out with GGPO I guess.) But the FGC isnt really used to online. How do Starcraft 2, DoTA, Counterstrike, etc, run successful events online? People who are wanting to run online events might want to investigate what those people do, what equipment they use, how they set up their tournaments etc. These are genres and games that have successful competitive scenes despite players being in entirely different continents. How do they do it? - Getting casual/new players into the community. I know everyone here compares BB to GG so it's considered an "easy" game. But the truth is, BB is really complicated. The barrier to entry (competitively) is very high. If you look at match videos of KOF13, the game mostly revolves around poking, long combos are pretty rare. SF4 is more combo-based and has nasty stuff like tight links, but at the very least, when you learn a combo, you can probably use it in most iterations of the game. Also you can probably get by with knowing 3 or 4 short combos in either game, and feel like you can compete at a beginner/intermediate level. But BB? Going to DL and trying to do stuff on the combo threads, is incredibly discouraging when you see this massive wall of text, and even if you pick out one or two to try, the combos listed are pretty difficult to even remember, let alone perform. Remember, in other games the longest thing you have to remember is normal > special > ultra or something simple like that. In the past, some of the character sections here on Dustloop made a pretty structured effort to have newcomer-friendly guides. You'd have combos listed by difficulty, so "Beginner Combos", "Intermediate" etc for the character, which made things much less daunting. They also taught you the building blocks along the way, so you can see how the beginner combos are extended into intermediate ones etc. This gets us to the other problem with BB - every sequel changes the gameplay for many characters quite significantly. Nothing you remembered works anymore. You have to memorise a whole new list of things, unlearn your old reflexes. Sure, hardcore players might enjoy going through the discovery process again, but to people who are time/effort poor, its just far too much work. If we want to attract as many people as possible to BB, we need to help make this process as painless as possible. (I played Taokaka in CT, so maybe I am especially bitter over this.) Sadly, the trend is the opposite. Every time a new BB comes out, all the old character guide threads get archived, and are replaced with new threads that are less complete, less well-done, less-beginner friendly. I call it "guide fatigue", I think people who write these guides are just getting sick of updating them or something. If we want to reverse the decline of this game, then the community resources really need to be "rebooted". I hope when BBCS:EX has been released on console for a while and people have had a chance to learn it, we can get excellent guides written that match the best from previous BB games, nicely structured to lead people from beginner to expert. Another barrier to entry (apart from combos) is the gameplay itself. BB (and I assume GG) have a strong focus on momentum and oki and corner damage. In SF or KOF, even when playing a better opponent, the game is in neutral a lot so I have a chance to press buttons and feel like I'm playing the game. In BB, against better players I am stuck in the corner watching them combo me for tens of seconds. Then they do a mixup as I get up, or punish my tech, and suddenly I'm back to watching combo movie again. (I play Lambda in CS2, so maybe I am especially bitter over this.) I'm not complaining about the game (even though it sounds like I am), but I notice there's not really a lot of advice or gameplay guides on how to deal with this situation. If you want to bring new players to the competitive scene, they will often face better players, and they will often be stuck in the corner watching themselves get comboed over and over. So any guides written will have to pay special attention to how the game works, how to get out of pressure, when and where to tech, etc. I get the feeling most here just assume it's common knowledge since we have GG veterans and so forth. Anyways, here I am telling people what to do without helping in any way, so maybe it's not good. If BB was a western-developed game, I would be saying these things in the official forums, trying to get the developers to include proper and good tutorials into their game. But since it's not, the community has to take up the slack, so I guess I'm trying to express the needs and problems casual/new players face when trying to become competitive in BB. Remember, regardless of how awesome the atmosphere of an event is, meeting other players, etc, people won't continue to come if the act of playing the game competitively is frustrating and unfun for them.

Nevertheless, a FG has many systems and mechanics that will shape the space of possibilities in the game, and how effective those possibilities are. In order to take advantage of the wider options in a game, psychology, etc, I think a player needs to first have an understanding of the options available, and their relative values. You need to understand your tools before you can be creative AND effective. Otherwise you're just being random. So when teaching players about the game or a character, I think its important to describe what works and doesnt work, and why. Maybe "Ragna: Do 6B > 2B" is too simplistic without a proper explanation, so its much better to explain WHY as well. Then the learning player can start getting a feel for the other stuff he can try, relative to this. Telling someone, "Hey, I wont taint you by telling you what other people have learned about the character, you should be creative and do whatever!" doesnt help anyone.

Hmm, well if it never happens to you maybe I am just failing in some odd way. My problem is not character dependent, I can train vs. Ragna and about 1/10 times it will be blockable. Even something as simple as 2B > 2C (2) > 5C > 3C.

Thanks for the answers. Another question. In training mode, I notice that 2C / 5C > 3C on crouchers doesnt always combo. (eg. 2A > B > C > 5C > 3C on croucher). I can't tell what makes it fail, it doesnt seem to be timing (ive seen it fail on a buffered gatling) or distance (ive seen it work at long distance and fail at various distances.) Can anyone give a clue as to why that happens and how to make it reliable?

If I get a 2D hit on someone in the air, are there combos that I can do?

Are there less entrant spots this year because the game has fallen in popularity? Or was the reduction a decision from the management for some other reason?

Oh, maybe I am reading it wrong. In 6D (chain start) the Guard column says L, but in 6D (chain followup) it says HL.

In the frame data d.6D doesnt hit low? is this correct or a typo?

What is the oki ender? I cant seem to find anything about it in the thread? Something to do with 236D?

I'm surprised to see Makoto is considered even with Lambda?

Whilst I like her character design, I didnt bother with Litchi in BBCT because of hard execution and so much character/screen position dependence in her BnBs. What is she like in CS2? Still the same? Are her combos easier/more general now?

That's fine, but to get the muscle memory I have to know the correct timing in the first place? It seems like if I just naively do it as fast as possible, it doesnt work? So are there delays in there I have to wait for?

Hi, just trying out Hazama to see if he is a suitable main for me. A question: Its embarassing to say, but I'm having difficulty landing the jCx5 jc jCx5 parts of his simplest combos. I find I tend to land during the second set of jC's. Whats the trick to doing this consistently? I've tried various combinations of jc'ing as soon as I can, pressing jC five times carefully, mashing jC as quickly as I can, etc, but cant quite get it to work consistently. (oddly enough, i have greater success on pad even though I'm a stick player. I wonder if my adaptor for my stick has input delay? its not supposed to... its an inpin...) Any tips would be appreciated!

So, now that people have the game and can try stuff, can someone please tell me if Tao has any simple and moderately damaging (ie. better than 5B > 5C > 236AAAAA > 5D ) combos that dont require drive cancels (on hit) ? Edit: fine, changing mains then T_T

I wish people would at least mention what video they're talking about, or even better, copy-paste the link >_>

Well, certainly, my Tao in CT was poor, but at least I could do a bit of damage Now I have nothing :P Drive cancel on hit is somewhat strict to time, especially online. Understand that my preference is for games like Melty or VF where command buffers/queues are the norm. (if only they were popular, were on consoles and had netplay!) I'd love for everyone to have a basic ABC2C > jc > jABC > jc > jABC > air throw like Melty does, that's reasonably damaging. It doesnt seem to have destroyed Melty's viability as a competitive fighting game. Anyways, you're probably right, I'll have to give up on Tao. Just ignore me while I weep silent tears in my corner :P

Just give me some cheese to go with my whine, thanks CT Tao had a nice spread of combos across the execution spectrum - you could do reasonable damage with a simpler combo, and high damage with a difficult one. CS Tao threw that out, usuable damage combos were all fairly high execution (compared to CT drive loop etc.) We'll see in CS2 whether there are decently damaging combos that dont involve drive cancels I guess. In general I'm against raising execution requirements... isnt BB supposed to be a game to appeal to a broader market?

Alright, I cant do this either T_T. Looks like still no Tao for me in CS2 >_> I wish they gave me back CT's drive loops - no taunts, no drive cancels, no jump cancels, easy peasy.

It says theres an 8000+ combo if you have gold burst and 50% gauge.

If you wanted respect shouldnt you be playing GG? I thought BB was meant to be accessible for newer players?

This is similar to why I switched to Lambda in CS... taunt loop and drive (on hit) cancels are too tough for a casual like me to use. I'm happier if BnBs didnt use such features and only fancy expert combos did. Heck, even ( j.C > JC ) x3 stumps me for some reason. Need some melty (j.A > j.B > j.C > JC)x2 hahah.