choysauce

Fought enough Sols to give a bit of insight on this matchup HCL is semi-useful. If it's read, Sol can just dash in and get in your face real fast. So this needs to be used sparingly and with purpose for mainly punishing sol's bad choices in neutral (riot stomp, far gun flame, etc) Grand Viper and 2D will low profile sol against a lot of your hoverdash jumpin's (mainly j.K, and j.S) j.H might work, but haven't tested this. You can safe jump the DP with hoverdash j.K, but a good sol will mix it up with backdashes / 2D / blitzshield to beat it. VCL > YRC > FD is probably the safest choice as an oki option cool tech vs neutral gunflame: hoverdash 3 slightly > note > YRC > airdash. this will get you high enough to do note > YRC to get over gun flame and have the note follow without getting canceled. If you can detect the sol's wildthrow patterns, sniff it out with a VCL > YRC for a big punish.

What Mynus means is that to get the "whiff j.H" you have to stop in the air a little bit, hit j.H, so that it'll whiff. at the height in +R you can make j.H come out to whiff going out of the hoverdash. In this version you usually get j.H to hit directly out of hoverdash. so again you need to hover dash > neutral > j.H in order to get the old +R j.H whiff

Interesting I didn't realize normal chains can have momentum to them. but with that SOOO glad 2S > 2D will be better. I never trust that 2D will reach lol. But I do remember universally command grab > YRC won't exist. It'll always be command grab > PRC and of course the universal blitz shield buff that affects I-no's VCL > YRC

I don't have all the notes but here were some changes I remember reading (may not be accurate) - 2D special cancel window increased - upper body invul on SM - CH 5S staggers - removal of dash cancel from 2H I'm sure there were more, but can't remember or find where the sources were.

You most definitely can mash 5P. try setting chipp to do a blockstring and cancel into leaf command grab and see him get hit out of it.

go nuts, try to out read who does HCL first then punish, remember her defense is ass so knock I-no down and go ham.

Played quite a few good chipps and here's some quick observations I've had You will most likely block A LOT vs chipp. he moves so fast it's hard to pin him down with note or anything really. HCL will whiff if he's running and he'll be running at you very much his ground normals will destroy yours so you need to be careful about throwing out buttons. you most likely need to dominate him when he takes to the air with teleports or airdashes. you can blitz vs the teleport mixups since most likely the chipp will use j.H also if chipp likes to teleport in neutral to read a note or HCL, you can wait and then air throw him for the bad read. for leaf command grab resets, mash 5P do not press buttons if chipp does teleport YRC. the slow down causes you to not be able to do anything to counter his assault. you have to YRC back at him

I've played a few good Sin players and it doesn't seem too bad of a match for I-no. Main thing vs. Sin is defense. gotta make them run down their food meter so they feel like they can't keep frame trapping you. Once you see them eat, hit that HCL the 236H? poke that sin has is his best tool vs I-no. try to stay out of this range when doing ANY special move since it kills projectiles and still hits I-no. if you get tagged by this prepare to burst also j.236H? is super very hard to get around since it covers the hoverdash space. so opt for full screen notes and max range HCL's

This matchup can be either really easy or difficult, depending on how skillful the pot player is you mainly want to zone pot, but the flick is the trick that makes this matchup more interesting. HCL is probably your best tool, if pot hammerfalls you can follow up to get through his armor. it's also tough to flick if it's done unpredictably note can be useful if you mix it up with where you place it. pot can't flick it if you try to make it land on top of his head. mixup's on pot can feel easy on pot since he is such a big character, but you do want to watch out for 5P / 6P / heavenly pot buster most oki setups that aren't close to the ground can be grabbed by heavenly pot buster. so utilize the safe jumps more often than not. pot backdash is a huge tool against I-no since alot of her meaty mixups can be cleanly backdashed and if you're not ready, you're getting pot bustered. It's always good to vary the oki you do to check how backdash happy a pot player will be.

adding a bit more to the notes after playing so many bedmen. use blitzshield against body splash if you're not sure about your 6P anti airs, esp if the bedman is doing an ambiguous cross up setup. kill the deja vu symbols any time you can using hoverdash > j.K / note / hcl. hoverdash k is awesome since you can approach and knock out some deja vu's while approaching. on defense, wait it out if he has a lot of deja vu's already set up. they will dissipate and bedman will have to resort to using the actual move to set up shop again. watch out for these opportunities or just go ahead and dead angle if you think it's not worth taking the possible damage utilize VCL if the bedman likes to go sky high. 5P anti air is super effective be content sometimes to fireball war with bedman. if you have the life lead you're winning. watch out for ground spikes though (3H)

This is an evernote I've been working on for I-no that lists combos that generally work on most of the cast. There are slight variations you need to do for some, but it gives you a general idea of what typically is used https://www.evernote.com/shard/s495/sh/ad7a474f-9a6e-4dcf-a048-f987f9499de0/fc3021cda90ca5540cdfaeb0f82a8811

An initial observation I've had when messing around with the S Dive wall bounce is that when you do it low it seems to put you into the corner right away, but if it's higher up (with say sj.S > j.H > S dive enders) you won't get into the corner immediately. Just noticed this when trying to figure out when the VCL cross under in the corner works properly.

I think one tool that needs to be used more is j.HCL / sj.HCL I had a lot of trouble against a millia player who would just take to the skies to get in and get into the angles that I-no has trouble with (35-65 degree angles ala hairpin angle). My answer was that I would jump to her level and HCL her as she did her airdash towards me.

I've been trying to come up with some generic paths for i-no's corner combos and finding that utilizing P Dive > airdash > j.H > FFVCL adds a lot good options 2K > 6P > 5H > j.H > S Dive > cl.S > j.S > j.H > P Dive(delay) > airdash > j.H > P Dive > land > Note Oki S Dive > Cross under VCL / Reset FFVCL > cl.S > sjc > j.S > j.H > K Dive / S Dive FFVCL > [super] or [Hdash > SM/Throw Reset] FFVCL > 5P xx SM (tech is at a good height for ground SM) I'm going to look into what options come out of P dive for that 3rd ender Also this is a combo I came up with (tested on Sin) for that VCL cross under that one guy posted in the general thread. Doesn't seem to work vs ppl that tech away from the corner, so not sure how this actually hits people. But if it does... VCL High Reset > cl.S > VCL > cl.S > VCL > cl.S > VCL > cl.S > jc > j.S > j.H > P Dive > airdash > P Dive Airdash > Enders

It's kinda how people are supposed to play against I-no lol That's why you can't just hoverdash in and hope they curl up into a ball. It's always a read of how defensive/scared they are if you're going to do hoverdash > blockstring > hoverdash, cuz the gap is huge Good players are going to mash their good/fast anti air normal to keep you in check, so you gotta have those meaties and counter pokes down.

Has anyone come up with some danger time combos? or are there any videos? I'll probably try working on some later this week.

This is an evernote I've been cracking out on to set myself a standard for note taking I'm focusing on bang for buck. Trying to be concise but very robust at the same time. Mainly to use to glance over and remind myself of the weird MU specific stuff https://www.evernote.com/shard/s495/sh/9d194f20-8ba7-4c16-9d15-048bc85d87fd/34872f3aa548dc5752a6d0892b846294 Let me know if there's any info you can contribute. It's still a WIP =P

My favorite thing to do vs ppl who mash between your strings is to do a block string that pushes you a bit out of throw range > CH 2HS!!! ex. hoverdash j.K > j.S > land > 2HS that'll make them feel real dumb for mashing. Then you get the hover dash cancel into a full combo.

Is that with IB or even with regular block? Then that means you can just reversal it easy if you have something hit invul. & BS too

Did anyone test if you can IB 5H and then interrupt the string to 6H? It seems like there would be a gap there

My training partner, blandwolf is an axl main. So I play this MU the most I think axl wins this match. He def has the upper hand until I-no can get in. Neutral game is definitely in his favor with the chains. making it hard for her to approach Note can be nullified by green sickle. Gotta aim it particularly well against axl Axl has a lot of answers for HCL. Green sickle, 2H will low profile it and can hit I-no on recovery Axl's damage is no joke, one bomber combo and you wonder where all your life went. Hard to deal with sparrowhawk stance if axl can mixup the timing and canceling / re-entering into stance. Need to blitz shield on reaction / trade limbs / wait. Axl has good buttons upclose for I-no's hoverdash pressure. 5k, 6P But here's what we can do DP can be safe jumped easily with hover dash > hoverdash > j.K. But watch out for that blitz shield Notes can be used if they're closer to axl's head level so he won't green sickle. But he can low profile with 2K. gotta be tricky with the notes Hoverdash > FD is useful for getting closer to axl. hoverdash > IAD crossups help to mess up inputs for supers and DP Pretty standard fight except for the sim limbs. Gotta be extra patient for the knockdown and can't let him get back up. Approaching with a lot of defense in mind is key. Staying out of range for chains and trying to poke back with HCL or putting out note during their recovery will help get the advantage as well.

Played a long set with GC yoshi, whose bedman is pretty sick. MU is pretty even or in I-no's favor in my opinion. But here's bedman's strengths vs Ino j. Headball angle is very good against TK note. They seem to go under alot and clip her feet. sometimes bedman can convert to a combo, esp if he uses the teleport version. Returning head ball > 3H (underground spike)frame traps are good since I-no likes to jump in neutral Bedman j.S is a nightmare for I-no (no pun intended) Bedman wakeup clock super is very strong option for Bedman (safe, invul, & comboable), but there is a good counter has great air to air normals and likes to stay up there. hard to counter throw, his normals push you away very often. tick throw game is super strong, gotta make fast reads to do VCL to counter it Here's what we can do in the MU HCL is super hard for Bedman to deal with. He has to guess parry dash or try to get into the air, but HCL > HCL will keep him on the floor HCL & Note will kill replay icons and keep their active frames to hit Bedman Utilizing hoverdash > IAD's to mess up super input on bedman's wakeup is really strong. If bedman has 50% on wake up, there's not really any reason for him not to do alarm super. he might get 236H instead or get CH for being unable to input it. j.P / spaced out j.H is your best friend since bedman likes to approach from the air with his huge normals You can jump out of blockstrings xx blade top special replay, there's a big gap. Bedman players can catch on and change up the timings to add more hits to the chain to catch your feet or do the special early. Just look for the big green replay symbol. Don't let bedman get into the 45 to 60 degree angles above I-no. It's pretty tough to deal with him when he's there. so run and get some breathing room

Played 1 long set vs a good week 1 Leo, here's the initial observations I have for the MU From what I can tell this is a very hard MU. Leo does great damage Pressure is really strong and mixup potential is big Counter makes it difficult to retaliate up close Having a bunch of throw invul normals makes it hard to throw counter as well (from my exp, one of I-no's better options to get out of pressure) cross ups not a factor due to flashkick (you can safe jump it / FD it) H fireball is HUGE and usually kills enough note hits to run through it. 6P & j.H controls all the air space and makes it super hard for I-no to approach. losing air to airs / getting anti aired = mixup opportunity for Leo since he has his restand ender from air combos 236H (berserker slash) goes under HCL and CH's Counter reflects notes lol Stance super can punish note on reaction (YRC pls) > huge damage (5f super startup & Safe on block so far according to commentators?? not listed in wiki tho) The best answers I can find so far (also from watching Mynus vs Zidane at TSB) establish the safe jump so that they're less likely to flash kick. Gotta make them second guess their reversal so you can apply more mixups. Note can be aimed under the fireball so they pass each other (Mortal Kombat? lol) If Leo counters the note when you're too close you can punish him for doing it. The bounced note will mirror the angle it came in. Usually it'll be downward, so it will most likely angle downward even more. So not the biggest issue for I-no since she usually comes in through the air anyway. We just get less opportunities for catching an opponent in blockstun to approach. There is a good amount of delay after the counter (2H CH!!), but may be safer to attempt throw, close the gap w/ hoverdash or just get away. Not smart to throw out a poke punish unless you know the timing and recognize that you will punish Overall it seems like the main game plan is to set out a note and approach slowly, since even counter isn't the best option vs it, it negates the blockstun that Leo would otherwise be in. HCL not a great tool unless you're whiff punishing. And not a great idea to play the footsie game midrange since Leo's pokes are way beefier than yours. Be aware of what stance he's in when going in, he's much more dangerous when he's in the counter stance. Know that he can't jump out of it, but he can hold charge for flashkick while walking (fuck). Gotta bait it with double jumps, hoverdash airdash back, or hoverdash FD. Don't be an idiot and dive when he's in counter stance, unless you're gonna YRC =3 Gotta be a lot of crazy mixed in with some smart stuff to win this one.

Also establishing your safe jump vs DPs is very strong. hoverdash > hoverdash > super low j.K (so cheap, love it =D). The best answer for Ky here is blitz shielding. It's easy to mash BS on wakeup, so don't go for this option every time. Empty jump throw or low to beat the BS. Still good advantage here I also heard you can low profile his DP w/ 2K & 2S, but I haven't seen it or been able to learn the timing yet. So it sounds like I-no should most definitely win after a knockdown Greed sever is -13 on block so in most cases it seems that a 2S(9f) > HCL will work every time if you time it correctly. But not sure how the framedata changes depending on how deep the blocked GS is. Wakeup Super w/ I-no doesn't seem like a good answer if Ky has 50% heat. Reading the wiki, Ride the Lightning is 100% projectile invul & hit invul f1-25. So he can ride through Longing desperation super on reaction to the super freeze i'm sure.

I've played a few sets with a really good elph player. It seems very tough for I-no because of the space that Elph is good at covering. 5H kills I-no's hoverdash approaches cl.S mash is an amazing answer for I-no's up close pressure Berry bombs will kill the note, and still leaves elph with the timed explosion portion active Pressure in shotgun stance in the corner is super hard to deal with. Shotgun S & H will hit you out of STBT Elph shotgun roll is projectile invul, so she can get past notes really easily General tips for the MU: STBT is a good answer for 5H mashers who autopilot, (haven't tested if she can 5H > stop > punish the stbt or if she needs to block it) HCL should work in theory for punishing 5H mash (last hit of 5H mash is -17 on block, 11f startup for HCL). Gotta test when is a good time to go for the HCL. I miss whenever I attempt it but I think I'm doing it way too late since the animation of the gunshot seems more active than it actually is (1f active). staying out of 5H range to play footsies/whiff punish with HCL is pretty important. Also in that range utilizing notes is much more feasible since 5H isn't a projectile and the opponent won't want to bust out a rifle in that range 2H is really good when elph wants to approach with her own 2H and also for cl.S mashers. for any character really, if they like to hit buttons to disrespect the hoverdash pressure, CH with 2H Raw notes will trade with rifle shot, so if you YRC you can block the shot or force them to cancel out of the stance and block Berry bombs are a problem but (I THINK) you can cancel out the initial hitbox w/ HCL/VCL. Using notes to nullify is a bad idea since it leaves you at such a big disadvantage and also the approaching arc is usually in I-no's weakspot. (Gotta find a better answer for berries) VCL might be a good answer for when elph will use meaty bomb > shotgun command grab. Not sure if berry will nullify the VCL though, gotta test it Still lots to look over but that's my take so far