choysauce

Nice post Mike! Yeah I definitely like the instances where 2C works in juggles. So much damage potential and way more positive setups from them.

Any thoughts on the Orie matchup? I did a little bit of training mode and I know I can punish her 214A/B with flashkick (-11 & -7 respectively). The recovery is really bad and even doing the followup there's a big gap. But her divine thrust we can't seem to do anything about unless we flashkick on reaction. (shielding doesn't let you punish it when she spaces it well ) One thing I did forget to test is if laser can hit her out of the 22A/B setups after her sweep. Does anyone know if she blocks after the persona bubble is out that it'll stop the move? or would that only be on hit? And is it possible to low profile the divine thrust at all? what happened here?! video ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wAvp0imlDto#t=1145

Semi recent tournament from A-Cho features some really interesting combo options. This blue vatista's stein pressure is amazing too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roQwFAy9QCE

Is there such a thing as a High Counter only Combo? As in the combo only works if you get a High Counter. I'm still not certain who's giving me the right info about how counters work in this game. I read that only the first hit gives you extra hitstun, others say the whole combo gives you extra hitstun. Does anyone here have any High counter only combos?

So does that mean if you use the 421B it will teleport right next to the location where that instance happened? I wonder what happens if you glitch the opponent in the corner, and you do it at the other corner. This glitch seems actually kinda useful, but it can take away the usefulness of 421B punishes. I'd assume you always turn around when you 421B

you should test it for us in training mode and let us know. But I have a feeling she would get thrown into 22C and take the hits. Since some characters can combo off of throw, I don't think the opponent has invul when they are thrown

I can't say I have any solid things to go by, but could it possibly be some misinput that is causing it? or some sequence that causes it. The only place else I could think of getting an answer would be to see any JP sources. This could be very powerful if it can be controlled.

ok, so there's something that appears when you do the D cancel correctly. And this needs to happen as soon as I leave the floor correct? Thanks Tari!

Is there a visual cue? specific input timing that can be explained? I feel like as soon as I jump I hit the D and it's still kinda inconsistent for me. Also I just figured out why you can do batou BAB when holding a button already. Holding the C before doing the first battou B probably counts as a slide, so it never uses the B in the stance.

Awesome work in this thread. I wanted to ask how people are doing the j.9~D cancels off of the stance? I can't seem to consistently get it to cancel or get the j.2[C] for some of her combos that call for it. the j.2C tends to not come out or comes out too late. Also I'm on board with calling for a convention of differentiating between slide and simultaneous button inputs. and also differentiating 236B > 236A > 236B ish notations (it can easily be confused for the short normal slashes from the stance) I suggest 236B+D as simultaneous and then 236B~D as slide also i'm for utilizing 236B~[C] as a slide hold notation last question regarding the 236BAB stuff. Does the stance system just allow 3 actions period? if saying, using the B option in the stance doesn't allow you to use B option again, it doesn't make sense.

Nice, But I think the real question is, is it possible to do a veil off midcombo somehow? lol probably not though. Only instance I could think would be to CS a DP and veil off, but still seems sketch. VO will probably have too much startup/recovery to work or even Raw 22C > CS > VO

What parts of the combos are you struggling with? some tips I can spare are -plan ahead which buttons and charges you want to use (have it set from what start you're using) (ESPECIALLY for which buttons to hold) -for [8]2A or B using the standing normals like 5B or 5C and holding 9 during the start up of these and you should have enough charge to get it in one jump -try to release the buttons for fragmentums after you confirm the normals hit (e.g. 2C > release 2]B[ or 5B > release 5]A[) or learn the timing for the earliest cancel after you get those down (it's pretty common to want to release it too early and not get any special cancel) -wait more than it's a bit comfortable for you, for the charges. her charge times feel longer than most charge characters in most games (Just trust that the combo will still work if you delay the j.B) so j.B > [8]2A raw in a combo, you delay the j.B and the drill pretty significantly for it to work. (this is also combined with the earlier comment of charging as soon as you hit a standing normal, 5B or 5C) -j.B > j.C > [8]2A hit freeze helps ALOT with increasing your charge time. this sequence makes the combos a bit easier, but tends to lead to less damage (depends on what the whole combo is though, sometimes j.B > j.C actually adds damage) hope that helps

This should probably be in the match up thread but here's my take I feel like Vatista does really well against Merkava. She has great options from far away that won't get beat by his TOO LATE grab (air lumen and laser). you can match his height with j.A+B and laser/assault him. flashkick on reaction to his overheads. Flashkick or EX drill vs his EX noodly whippy arms. the mid range game is where you'll probably have trouble vs him. Steins don't seem too effective in this matchup since he can hit you out of them pretty easily with his long limbs. one thing to watch out for is EX TOO LATE since it will grab you out of any aerial attacks you've done, (probably air lumen). bait it with j.A+B so he wastes 100 meter. As far as the GRD war goes. if you can take a little life off of him you can stay full screen and just charge, he'll have to come in since you can always block TOO LATE on reaction. Once you get vorpal you can just start chucking plasma again

5BB will activate the standing steins. the hitbox for the 2nd B expands and makes it hit at all heights of the floating stein. Yeah LoliMaiko is definitely the best American Vatista i've seen so far, in terms of tech. His utilization of steins is way better than anyone I've seen

I'm not seeing a good use for the TK9 lumen. the distance that vat travels forward is pretty insignificant and it only works for the A version. The only thing I can think of to use for it is to counter a low or throw attempt midscreen/cornering opponent. Then you might be able to get a cool combo since you're closer when it hits. The risk of messing up the execution for the reward doesn't seem worth it to me

The thing about this setup is that it seems faster and safer to do the lumen stella right out of the flashkick as you're falling into assault. But in the neutral game this jump forward > lumen stella could be very useful

Wow, I've never seen what this looks like, but this could be super useful against Hilda. (I HATE HILDA X.X) Also seems useful for a surprise escape from someone approaching you close to the corner.

I've been studying alot of matches from chainshift.com's database of vatista matches. Mainly been taking from Atepo. But here's some cool blockstrings/pressure setups i've seen from the vids 2[A] > 5B > 5C > 2C > 2/5]A[ 2A~B~A > 2A > 2A > 2C > 2/5]B[ 66C > 2/5]A[ > j.A > HI/LO mixup 66C > FF > [6]4C j.[4]6[A] > 66C or dash > 2/5]A[ [A] > 2[A] > 66xx2 2[A] > 5B > 5C > 2C > 2/5]A[ > 2]A[ > 9j.A (explode) > j.Axx[8]2B (midscreen, single jump double overhead) 2C > CS > HI/LO mixup mid combo 2C > 5C > j > [8]2A > 2[C] > 5]B[ > 2A > [6]4B > 2]C[ > 2C > 5C > [4]6C > 9j > HI/LO mixup corner combo 2[C] > 2]B[ > 2[A] > 2B > 5]C[ > 44 2]A[ > 5A~[C] > 5A Alternating Bomb Pressure

Honestly I don't think it's a great super to use for combo enders, unless it'll kill. But some things I do know about the super is that no matter where you are, it'll always put you midscreen somehow. If you hit them with it in the corner, it'll change the background and place you midscreen to make sure it doesn't do the Marvel vs Capcom magneto problem.

I was watching some videos and saw one JP player that did this block string 2A~B~AAA > 2C > 2]B[ I'm pretty certain this is the input he used (no input display) I've been messing around with the chain combo system and found if you do the 2A~B~A fast enough the 2B won't come out and you get another 2A. this lets you hold the B for the 2C > 2]B[ stein release. pretty strong imo because it's pretty easy to set up how much distance you want to set out the stein and can mix it up with some other type of pressure since you're masking it with the 2AAA *edit* Did a bit more research, it seems that if you plink A~B within 3 frames the next chain won't come out, 4 frames or later the B will come out after the A Most likely to do with the start up of the 2A, the first 3 frames are not actually hitting the opponent so inputting the next B won't activate the chain. also this button masking concept makes me realize why 2B and 5B can't chain until the 2nd hit

Yeah sorry lol, I edited it now

Been looking at the utility of 236C, I think it's huge against matches like Nanase, or anyone with a DP or good anti airs In the air it'll always do the grounded version that will wallbounce and it causes you to change your jump trajectory backwards. Great for anti air bait. This is a combo I came up with to use if it connects j.214C > delay 66 > j.B > j.C > 214A > 623A > 5A > 3B > 214B > 2C > 4C > 214B I delay the dash until they are close to hitting the wall, so that they are as low as possible in the air

All the combos I've seen don't require anyone to hold buttons before the first hit of the combo. It's impractical to assume someone will be holding the correct button the whole time until you get the confirm. most likely you would be holding buttons to set up pressure or zoning in neutral.

Has anyone explored the utility on Orie's force function? I can only see it being useful for using with Thanatos and for random cross up setups. But I can see it being useful against merkava when he starts to fly, since you can get up higher in the air with it and then assault j.C

I've been having issues with random j.C conversions, but I think you may have answered my issue! I'm gonna try to see if j.C > j.2C confirm will lead to anything substantial, in terms of damage. Also just thought of OS'ing j.C > j.214A it's tough to cross up with j.2C because of cross up protection, but you can do a gimmicky frametrap/cross up by canceling it into the j.214B and convert off of that. i think 2A is the only thing you can link off of a regular hit with the j.214B and it can be a pretty tight window to hit with.