Tari

We haven't really been creating new posts for Caliburst for the past few months. It feels like this thread usually only gets updated a few days in advance of the tourney as well, though that's probably because even when it does get updated, no one bumps it back up to the top.

Try recording the setup and blocking it yourself to make sure it's blockable. The dummy might be auto correcting.

Confirmed it with a couple other strings, as well. Definitely looks like 7f after blockstun.

Yup. I should reword that. Need to edit the section a bit more, as well. Good catch. I'll add a note about Gordeau's 214B and rekka enders. They were exceptions, so I left them out, but I suppose there's no harm in stating it. I'll add a note about CS-ing Eltnum's 2a/5a, as well. Can you tell me what the tick throw is, just so I can confirm it with a frame count later? It'll be nice to finally have a precise value on this.

Pretty sure it's because air orbiter isn't a standalone projectile. It's a projectile that's actively being fired by Hyde. Afaik, the crossups don't work unless the projectiles are 'self-firing' (ie: Carmine trap/pinwheel summon, Hilda rain, Seth orb, Vatista crystal, Byakuya web, etc.). It's unfortunately impossible to test this with ground fireballs, because you can't make them go backwards. That said, I went to double check this stuff in training mode and realized it's not a point of origin, it's a direction of facing. The only projectile that determines its own direction of facing at the time of firing is Seth's orbs, and that's likely because it has to retrack the opponent when it fires. Pretty much every other projectile that I tested in the game has a fixed direction that you can block against. Haven't experienced this yet, what setup are you using? If I just run up and do 22B, then roll/jump/whatever and stand on the other side, they get hit if they block the wrong way. edit: no, come to think of it, I may have run into this. Going to go check again. edit2: nope, can't get it to happen. Hm.

I'll make a video reference of what I'm talking about w/ Hyde's aerial EX Orbiter, just to make sure we're on the same page. I'll try to get it up in a little bit, probably no later than tomorrow. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyKRS_ZeTkk (you can see which directions I'm blocking in the input display) The thread I'm talking about is this one: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9084-uniel-system-mechanics/ Hasn't really been updated in a long time, though I just reworded the cross-up section a bit.

I may be misunderstanding your example, but if you crouch block the air EX Orbiter, you should get hit by it for blocking the wrong way (assuming you're holding the stick towards Hyde). If you're stand blocking in neutral, you'll usually have crossup protection. If I'm thinking of the right thing, the rekkas > EX Orbiter string punishes people who switch block, because it isn't actually a crossup. It looks like one, though, and people end up blocking the wrong way because of it. Rekkas > CS > EX Orbiter is fairly annoying, too, because that actually does require players to switch block. The devs never went into detail on it, this is just what we got from looking into it for a few months. edit: if you can prove/disprove any other theories, I'm all ears. :D We mostly stopped digging into the system mechanics a few months ago. Not even sure we finished working out counterhits/proration/etc. beyond a basic understanding.

Each projectile has a 'point of origin', so to speak. Seth's orb and Ahzi have the origin points set at where they become active. Most other projectiles in the game have their origin points set at where their character performs their startup frames (even things like Carmine trap and Hilda sword rain). Players can always block away from a projectile's point of origin. The only reason it's confusing is because a projectile's point of origin usually does not align with the projectile's visual marker. Notably, this is why you cannot block Hilda's j.214B by walking towards Hilda, even if the sword rain orb is positioned behind you. It's technically possible to cross up with any projectile in the game, it's just that most projectiles, even if you jump over the opponent, they can continue to down-back the original direction because of the origin point, meaning that you would have to jump over them a second time to get a cross up effect. I should clarify that in the mechanics, didn't realize how confusing this was. Thanks for bringing it up. By the by, you're technically right when you say some things are hardcoded to break it, it's just not 'breaking' it, per se. :P

Assuming the defending player isn't locked in blockstun, projectiles must be blocked either from the side the projectile is on, or from the side the attacking player is on. In this case, since Chaos switches to the same side as the 'projectile' (Ahzi), the defending player has to switch block. If I recall correctly, it's universally true, and is actually fairly important for both Chaos and Seth in terms of wakeup/mixup game.

Found another teleport glitch (sorta), similar to the old 4B one. If Hilda does her aerial sword rain super (j.41236C, I believe?), there's a period of time during it where dodging a sword and cancelling into teleport causes Yuzu's teleports to center on herself. Her A teleport makes her go backwards a small distance, and her C and B teleports cause her to move slightly in front of herself. It's very odd. I can't replicate it with air dodges or non-dodge teleports while the super is happening, nor can I replicate it with other projectile dodges. :|

In the end, he can't escape his Hime-sama love. /cough :P Good to hear, though.

Ah, you're right, sorry. Somehow forgot about Hilda pin, Vat crystal, Carmine trap, etc. being negative edge inputs. This is what happens when I don't play this game in too long. Yuzuriha, however, still doesn't have any.

What? Yuzu has no negative edging in her playstyle. Holding buttons down, yes, sliding, yes, negative edging, no. In fact, I don't believe UNIEL has any negative edging in it. (corrected by TD below)

Late response, but for what it's worth, sometimes it's still better to whiff cancel with 2A, even if you haven't used either 5A or 2A in your blockstring yet. It's generally less obvious than 5A after 2C (since you don't stand up), so opponents have to be ready and waiting for it to do anything (and it's still pretty hard to react). It's also harder for opponents to differentiate between 2C > 2A (whiff) and 2C > 2B (block), the latter of which is +/-0 anyway.

If the anti-air is a 1/4/5/6 input, then the OS can't be a simultaneous input (or you'll always get shield or throw). Instead, it's whatever your anti-air is, followed immediately by a throw input (in Yuzu's case, for example, it's 5C~AD).

There would be no point to doing an OS DP/grab on your own wakeup, since you're throw invulnerable for 8 frames after waking up anyway. In blockstrings, you can probably OS a DP the same way you would OS an anti-air. I suspect it'd be something like 623B~AD (or, as Sashi points out, 623BAD, really). It doesn't sound amazingly useful, since unlike the anti-air OS, if it gets blocked, you just lose. I suppose it would work in places where you would normally get frame trapped or otherwise hit if you tried the anti-air OS, though.

Chain shift resets your options. It literally returns you to neutral. That's how it's always been.

On that note, does anyone know what the bug fixes for Chaos, Seth, and Orie are? I wasn't actually aware there were bugs for those characters. For the other three, I believe these are the changes? Waldstein: Infinite removed Byakuya: Force Function cancel removed Yuzuriha: 4B teleport bug fixed

Where are you having problems in that matchup? It's one of Yuzu's worse matchups, but there are generally ways around most of the things Carmine does. I'll just info-dump things as they come to mind here: ---- For the most part, you'll want to abuse shield if he's pressuring you, as well as make good use of backdashing after pushing him away if you're not cornered. If you are cornered and he's running trap mixup on you, remember that you can teleport out of large enough gaps, or even try to 4B and cancel it into teleports or whatever if it's blocked. Dash throw is also legit against trap mixup, but it obviously runs the same risk of just getting hit. You can try to simply mash out of his corner trap pressure, but if he lets go of the trap to cover his own gaps, you're just going to get hit and eat between 4k (meterless) and ~7k (~130 meter + cs) damage for it. Trap starter combos are massive damage. Remember you can avoid being unblockabled if you mash shield on the hit before the unblockable setup. You can forward jump pinwheel startup, as well as stuff pinwheel, trap, and overhead startup with pretty much any move of your choice. Pinwheel and trap startups are fairly unreactable, though, due to the way their animations work, so you have to be expecting it. You can 4B the overhead and jump-ins on reaction, but you have to be on point with it. Carmine cannot hit you with j.[C] if he does it from a grounded assault or a tk assault. Keep this in mind, so you don't shield when you hear the sound or see the flash in those situations. Instead, just mash a button and try to landing punish him, or do something to stop him from resuming pressure. With the change to the teleport bug, you can safely counter pinwheels, now, without running the risk of breaking your teleports. There really isn't that much reason to do so in neutral, though. It's hard to determine exactly when a pinwheel becomes active, so keep that in mind when you try to counter one if you're doing it while blocking pressure. Try not to let Carmine 6B you for free. j.B is good in this matchup against Carmine j.[C], 5C is a reasonable anti-air at some ranges (and 4B works at pretty much every other range), and going airborne is generally pretty safe against him unless he's right next to you, at which point it becomes a weird guessing game of him anti-airing you or just mashing 5BB to hit you out of teleports. Carmine's flip super is fairly hard to stuff on startup, but you can counter it on superflash or rising j.A it on superflash. The latter option obviously also beats ex command throw. If you shield the low spike (22x), it becomes -2, so you can try to do something there. If you don't shield it, however, it's +1, and Carmine can and often will follow it with his DP, which has insane range and is also ridiculously plus on block (something like +13~+15). If you get hit by the DP, you will probably get combo'd. You can hold up or up forward and jump over the DP, however, and potentially punish Carmine with a falling normal, depending on spacing. Not sure what else to say, here. If you hit him, run him into the corner and do not let him out. Carmine suffers from the same problems that Yuzu does, namely having no meterless reversal options, so just doing whatever mixup you want on his wakeup is very legitimate. Safejumps are suggested. Respect his range. He has a better mid-range game than Yuzu, which is why I think the matchup is one of Yuzu's less desirable ones (similar reasoning for the Hilda matchup, though she has significantly less of an immediate pressure advantage). If you're in range to do short slashes, he's pretty much in range to 2C or 3C you, so be very wary about that. His lows are both long and can confirm into full combos from pretty much max range hits. You cannot assault over his lows (except 2B). They are too large. His anti-air is quite good. tk j.6B (air spear) is veeeery plus on block. Respect it if you are forced to block it. It has short range, so shielding will generally push him too far to really use it unless he's doing it early in a string. You can 4B it or backdash it, of course, but the former is pretty much a call-out option. His backdash is one of the better ones in the game, so don't be surprised if he backdashes over a 2C sometimes. It will, of course, always lose to things like 4C. Probably worth mentioning that Yuzu's ex flip is fairly good in this matchup, because of the fact that Carmine often plays his neutral game from mid-range, which is perfectly in range of the flip super. It's also useful if he tries to whiff punish a ground or air slash with his 22C or IW, as you can just whiff cancel slash startup/recovery (except the final few frames) into the flip super and punish him for trying. Keep in mind that the flip super is punishable on block, of course, and especially so if you actually do use it at mid-range, because you end up directly next to the opponent.

That airthrow ground bounce looks so strange. I wonder if it's always going to be combo-able from any height? Your theory about the 3C 236A RC combo sounds pretty legitimate to me. Can't see any reason it shouldn't work from what we know.

Estimates, I believe. BRs have a 2.0 down value (generally), and you can extrapolate most other down values from that (ie: combine BRs with whatever move) and from seeing how many repeated hits of the same move it takes to down an opponent.

Patch is out. Yuzu 4B teleport bug is fixed. Hooray! ==== Assault j.2C generally just goes into the normal bnb path from bad starters. The easy mode combo against most characters (assuming you aren't going to use one of the alternate routes from 4C, 2C, or 236A > 421C) is something like assault j.2C > 5A > 5C > 236A > 9D > j.B > j.C > 66C > j.236A > j.214B > 2C > slashes/ender. Doesn't work on, like, three(?) characters, but it's pretty easy and reliable on everyone else. On those three, you have to either do the delayed j.C route or do an alternate route. 5C anti-air routes are generally one of the following: - Low hit 5C > air loop > etc. - High hit 5C > j.B > j.6C > j.214B > 2B > air loop > etc. - High CH 5C > 5A (whiff) > dash, 66B/5C > 236A > 9D > j.2[C] > etc.

Just had to make sure. :P

Were those numbers for his 2.0 experience, or is it from the current revision?

Sorry, yeah, it's likely reduced starting untech proration. I should probably re-write my notes so I have that more clearly stated. The overall effect is that you have more hitstun throughout the combo (and on the first move of the combo, due to added hitstun on counterhits), and that it decays over the course of a combo. I'm unclear as to how the game decides how much bonus untech proration you start with, though I'm assuming it's a flat amount. It's difficult to reliably say that or check it without actually knowing for certain how the game calculates proration and untech in the first place (the folks with debug mode might be able to answer those questions). Counter and high counter definitely appear to have the same untech benefits, though.