Dacidbro

Go post up in the Ara v Bang thread, help yourself with your hardest/second hardest matchup.

This is where you post desperately trying to figure out how to get out of pressure. If I'm out of line for making this topic and not even being an Ara user, I'll gladly pass this topic off to whoever. However, having very successfully played with most of America's best Arakunes, I think I'm qualified to help you guys here, and want to do so. Defense Lets be honest, this is by far the most important aspect of this matchup As a very bare bones beginning, I'm going to lay out Bang's most scary pressure tools. 5A -This move is hella fast/prioritized -Combos to 3-4k -Gatlings to just about anything Highest Danger; Getting hit by it, Tick Grab, Gatling to low jabs or overhead Summary; You aren't going to beat this move on reaction, and it will more often than not go through your jabs and pokes. I don't know enough about Kune to say what you should do about it, but if anyone has any suggestions I would be very appreciative. At a glance I would say if you're point blank with Bang this is most likely what's going to be on Bang's mind, so watch out. On block, Bang will be looking for a couple things here; Overhead Low jab Tick Grab The problem for you is that these seamlessly flow together incredibly easily. If you're scared of the low jab, the tick grab and overhead are high threat. If you're scared of the tick grab, you may get blockstrung into a low or eat the airunblockable aspect of the overhead (!!! WAIT, His overhead is airunblockable?! Yeah guys, if you jump out of Bang's pressure, hold barrier or you're gonna eat a whole combo for nothing). Finally, if you're scared of the overhead, you're not blocking low for the non-reactable low jab and you're also not jumping out of the tick grab. This is Bang's most vicious guessing game. I would guess that your best bet is going to be IB Backdash. I don't think anything else is guaranteed, I'm just about sure you can't backdash out of the tick grab unless you IB, I'm completely sure you can't backdash out of the low without and maybe even with IB, but the overhead is 100% beaten out by backdash, so at least you have that.. if you're not in the corner. Another thing to try (particularly in the corner) is IB Grab. Should beat out tick grab and overhead, 2A is still gonna rape you. Spider super is certainly a possible option, since Bang is sure as hell not going to be respecting Arakune's reversals (lol) in most cases. 2A -Most of the same problems as above -Has no jab it can gatling into Summary; Similar dangers as 5A, It can gatling into tick grab, overhead, and even into itself, so you have the same sort of guessing game going on. However, unlike from 5A, you only have to worry about one low, so if you successfully block the second low in a row, unless you're playing against a truly researched Bang, you're free to buffer a barrier-block-jump to save yourself from both the overhead and the grab; the worst case scenario is he gatlings to 2C and gets a free low since you're stuck in blockstun before you can jump, but the most COMMON scenario is he gatlings to 5B and continues pressure. If he continues to 5B, you're out of the woods unless he uses nails to reset it, usually. 5B -Another fast poke -Farther range than 5A -Higher damage, but roughly half as fast Summary; There's probably a couple things Ara can do about this one, it's significantly less dangerous overall. However, it's a great poke, so if you're just outside of 5A, this is going to be incoming. Thankfully for you, Bang can't gatling this to a low jab, so you can almost certainly IB Backdash this for free, barring that you're going to be in pressure and blocking, but probably too far away for anything but a 2B, so pay attention and IB that shit if nothing else. An IB'd 2B is free out of pressure almost always with a backdash attached (Correct me if I'm wrong please, this is really just what I perceive to be correct, but I'm far from an Ara pro). Just realize that if you plan to sit this one out and block, you have to deal with the possibilty of 5C/6A mixup, both of which are high damage and put you back on wakeup 2B -Long range poke -Most commonly used as filler, because the only way to get any sort of pressure off of it is to use nails Summary; This move has extremely little danger attached, and is going to be probably the single easiest move Bang has to IB backdash. The reason, here, is that it's CRAZY popular for Bang to jump cancel 2B and use Dnails, and if he does, you have some odd 8+ frames to get in your backdash, making him waste nails while you get out free. Cool. However, if he gatlings 2B to 2C, I don't know if you'll get out in time.. and 2C leads to 3k+Oki now. *Shrug*, make sure the bang you're playing with isn't using 2C first, because if you block 2C that's the end of Bang's mixup unless he rapids. 2C -Logical next step from 2B, but non-jump cancellable -Much safer on block than it used to be, coupled with the fact it can gatling to 623B, and you're just not going to successfully punish this move, I wouldn't recommend trying Summary; Just understand this marks the end of his pressure unless he uses a rapid cancel, but don't stop blocking. Lol. 5C -Overhead -Usable from 5A, 2A, 5B -Airunblockable -Active above Bang faster than it's active in front of Bang, so for the love of god don't try to jump out of this TOWARDs him, Lol -Jump cancellable on hit or block Summary; Understand it, respect it, hate it, deal with it A trick of my own is to Dnails off 5C, so don't ever let up your mental defense just because 5C landed or you blocked it, you might be right back in pressure. 6A -Tricky low -Usable from 5A, 2A, 5B, 5C Summary; If you think you're really good at blocking the overhead, the Bang you're playing against probably hasn't been utilizing this correctly. This is the sub-move that realistically forces Arakune to backdash instead of trying to block the 5C. As long as you have the mentality of BDing the 5C, this move shouldn't be much of a problem. If you don't, or he pulls some really, really fancy mix to make it hit, it's 3.5k damage and oki, so you really do want to avoid this one. Just because it's a low, doesn't mean it prorates bad. Remember that 6B -Tricky high -Usable from 5A, 2A, 5C (IIRC) -Most common use, double overhead from 5C Summary; More incentive to BD the 5C, Bang's mixup only gets better after you've tried or failed to block the 5C. Just remember he has this now, and it's 2.5k with oki. 623C -Command grab -Very short range -Fantastic conditioning tool Summary; This makes your life suck if you haven't gotten the hang of IB BD. Really. To be able to use it, Bang has to dash in before his normals during a pressure string (Most accomplished by Dnails) and on wakeup situations on a neutral tech it's very high threat too. So, you see Bang dash in, you try to jump out, right? Well, if he's an intelligent bang, off of Dnails, he's going to go right to d5A > 2A, and if you stop right there you already got hit low for trying to jump out. A disciplined bang will take the 2k damage (2A prorates HORRIBLY, at least you have that going for ya) and put you back on wakeup until you respect the 2A, and THEN he will try to actually make the command grab hurt. So it's not as simple as just jumping out. However, if you do know the IB BD, most of these situations won't happen. If you IB BD 2B, he can't Dnail you for free, which takes that danger out of his gameplay. On wakeup, just be careful about neutral techs, that's another popular time for him to command grab (But simultaneously the most popular wakeup move for Bang is 2A, so fuck your life). If the Bang is getting really wakeup pressure happy, try a backwards roll. Should get you out of the 2A/Command grab for free, and you probably worst case end up in block. Those are his most dangerous grounded aspects. Should be a good start. I will keep updating this as I find time. Best of luck Aras.

Updated for spacing in Air Air, Ground Air and Air Ground. Feedbackssss please

Hmm. Seems like you're saying don't try to match Hakumen air unless you're close, not don't try to match it at all. I know Bang's jA is the god of close range air combat, so if you're already nearby him, couldn't that work pretty well? And I would definitely agree that if Hakumen is above you, j2C and jB is going to wreck your shit up, but if you're above him in the air he doesn't really have any tool - Wait, forget it, Hotaru. Okay, so only air-to-air combat Hakumen if you can force a proximity situation, and since you really can't do that very often at all, make air-air a non-priority entirely. Sounds smart. Summary, captialize on specific air-air situations, but avoid it usually.

Yeah; time it well In all seriousness, to get the turnaround 6C to work, you have to be quite close to the corner when you OTG 6A 623B. Otherwise, They'll get over you too late and you'll whiff a 5C in the wrong direction, or you just won't have enough time for it. However, in many cases, it's better to do 6A 623B (dash to the other side) 5B 2B jB jC for true oki and forcing corner wakeup

Is that not the right amount of damage? o: I aproximated. Lol.

LITTLE DID YOU KNOW Raqu IS YOUR FRIEND

I'm debating in yours, hope it's helpful. Lol. Cheers.

Uhhh. Okay. I'll just call the Carl's in japan and send over the message, grab on wakeup is the perfect oki. They don't get it. Look, I'm trying to be patient and helpful, and I know that I'm not wrong in this situation. You want to force Bang to block. Teching a grab isn't hard when all you're doing is blocking. Perhaps a meaty overhead is not always the best scenario, but it's certainly viable, particularly in corner. If not meaty overhead, meaty something else. Just make him feel the pressure, Bang is horrid on defense. EDIT: Another reason not to grab wakeup is down-tech is perfectly grab immune, meaning if he ever down-tech 5A's you're eating 3-4k

Nirvana can cover the roll, can't she? Wakeup games are never flawless. I'm just trying to give you the most dangerous for Bang wakeup stuff. Grab on wakeup doesn't account for simply blocking, which is what most Bang's will do on wakeup. So, most often, you grab him, he techs, and he's out for free.

Thanks though. Any word on how many will be uploaded? I know often it's not all of top8. EDIT: Oh, if scottind is scott, consider this post directed at you instead

I certainly mean whichever one makes Carl slide along the floor and go all high/med invincible. If it's just 236A, wonderful. :d Is it really that bad recovery? jD's recovery with no blockstun guarding it is pretty miserable. Also, a different note but still guard points.. There's no reason at all to be afraid of bang's guard points on wakeup. 5D and 2D aren't active on the first frame, so a 'clever' bang wakeup is 6D.. well, 6D is high vulnerable and unbearably slow, so you can either meaty frame 1 overhead to force Bang to block, or, you can literally just mash through it if you're smart with Carl's normals. If you see the guard point, pretty much mash as many lows as you can and you should get a counter hit + free combo. Really, the only time you need to respect Bang's wakeup is if the Bang is quick on his toes and down-tech 5A's you or has enough meter for Ashura.

Thanks a lot Zong. I'll edit it into the main post a bit later.

You need to super jump for about half the cast.

Well, +5 compared to what you'd normally be at.

No, I think it's probably very slightly in Bang's favor. I'm just not good

Seconded

2D, if it guard points Hotaru, shouldn't hit him before he JCancel>Barrier's.

Just.. something to clarify, 5D off the ground is jD. There is no other aerial guard point owned by Bang, barring his astral. 5D is a grounded guard point, so discussing it 'starting high' and talking about it's 'landing recovery' is inherently incorrect. But I think you are talking about jD, so I can at least help you out there. His jD can be really hard to punish without IB, since a seasoned Bang should understand that if it is used high, there are possible punishes even on standard guard. This being well known, the most common time jD will be thrown is on descent just above the ground, so that without IB a punishment is impossible, it will stuff any sort of attack (I believe even the hat), and be unpunishable on block. A possible solution is a quick 236236A, I think this should go right through it, avoid getting put in blockstun, and leave Bang quite open for punishment. Hope this helps, if it's faulty, let me know.

Definitely not Carl's favor. It's either even or slightly Bang, but I think it's even. I'll get into the methodology of watching the resets in a bit. I've learned a good deal about them from my matches with Zong1

No, none of those work in CT. His combos more than doubled in length from CT, and a couple key aspects of moves changed (I.E., 5B > 623B works)

Oh, awesome. I'm gonna play Kro this saturday, probably. For the record, very high chance of a lot of casuals goin on Saturday from noon to late, hope to see you guys there.

yeah guess which one I need the most :[ No Carl experience is killing me when it comes to playing a professional Carl. Lol. But hey, if you help us out on our matchup chart I'll help you out on the reverse.

Hmm. So the jump animation is 4 frames.. that probably means if a Hakumen is really dead set on TK Hotaru, you're only going to punish it if you avoid it or directly punish it (IE, 5D from too far to be hit, which is ludicrous, too high risk) So basically, Hotaru is just something you really need to respect. If Haku has 2 meter, be careful. *shrug* It doesn't have amazing horizontal, so it isn't the end of the world. Bang is good at fading off. Doesn't seem like there's too much to that. 4 frames is too slow to get out of most of Bang's blockstrings though, so if a hakumen seems really intent on TK Hotaru, he'll probably get auto-lowed if he tries during your string. Which means there's another great reason to go for 2A a lot, and then after making him scared of jumping, making him scared of being on the ground, and back and forth. Thanks, qwerty. Good info.