New player bashing my head against a wall

[magusheart]

Hello fine folks of Dustloop!

 

I've been watching fighting games for a few years now, I'm fairly familiar with them, but I never made an honest attempt at getting into them. I got really hype about Xrd and decided I wanted to get good (why not pick the most complicated franchise, right?) and Ramlethal was the character to catch my eyes. (Why not pick the hardest character to play in the hardest game, right?) My stick having finally come in last week, I started grinding training and matches equally. I'm having a blast, but I'm getting destroyed. It's a good sign when you're having fun getting destroyed, but I'd like to improve and get destroyed juuust a little less. For example, I just spent a solid 30-45 minutes fighting a Sol and I did not take a single game off of him. I'm not even sure I took 5 rounds total.

 

Naturally, my execution needs a ton of work. My combos are few and far between, my dashes are often failed (and let's not even talk about my air dashes), my jump cancel are all purely accidental.  Hell, I sometimes panic and let go of my stick entirely. Honestly, I'd need a mentor to even get good at the basic of fighting games, but I feel that's all stuff I can work on at least reasonably on my own.

 

Where I really need help is more with her neutral and her options. I've heard her neutral game is fairly weak, any tips there? What should I be looking for as far as pokes? The Sol example above, I felt I managed to poke fairly equally, but his pokes did much more damage, whereas I struggle in dishing out damage outside of combos. (And even then, my execution being what it is...)

What about her wake up? I feel completely at the mercy of anyone who manages to get me down. Seems I'm forced to just block on wake up, and I really envy the characters that have invincible DPs.

Speaking of DPs, any option to snuff out my opponent's wake ups? I can't seem to find anything on that front, aside from backing up a step and hoping they do something unsafe.

What about safe pressure? When I get my opponent in a corner, I try to alternate her various punch and kick strings to get some pressure in, but I was having issues there as well where Sol would just beat me with his normals. Dauro also seems pretty unsafe to me, as I keep getting beaten by various normals, specials and throws.

Finally, her sword summons are also causing me some major issues. I have a very hard time making them (relatively) safe. I manage to get a good summon here and there, but it seems to be more due to pure luck than anything.

 

So, dear people who are much (MUCH!) better than me at this game, I realize I just basically asked for an "How to Ramlethal for scrubs" guide, but any pointers you could give me would be much appreciated. Loving the game, loving the character, but my level of suck is pretty fierce.

[Fishey]

I'm kinda having the same problem with her neutral game also all I can abuse is far S and daruo.

I can do her combos and stuff but ppl usually burst when I carry them to the wall.

She has like no moves to get out of pressure unless u have 50% bar.

I'm having trouble when I'm under pressure.
I got owned by Ky and Leo yesterday I didn't get to win 1 game......

Which is kinda sad.

[Complexity]

Ramlethal isn't really difficult to play. If you ever have doubt in neutral just do rising j.p, see what your opponent does next and react accordingly.

[Sakaku]

If you're having trouble with the terminology, check this thread.

 

Where I really need help is more with her neutral and her options. I've heard her neutral game is fairly weak, any tips there? What should I be looking for as far as pokes? The Sol example above, I felt I managed to poke fairly equally, but his pokes did much more damage, whereas I struggle in dishing out damage outside of combos. (And even then, my execution being what it is...)

Her neutral is a little bit awkward at first. I'll try to explain her best neutral tools, but knowing how to use them properly only comes with experience.

 

f.S: Your go-to poke. It has okay start-up but huge recovery on whiff. The hitbox is smaller than it looks, it ends somewhere around the red line. A lot of characters can play around this move easily, either by having better pokes (Elphelt, Sol, Faust, Ky, Sin, Axl for example) or by using their mobility (Millia, Chipp) to whiff punish it/interupt its start-up with quick pokes. It's far from a braindead poke you can stick out all the time, but the reward for hitting your opponent is really good. On CH or if the opponent is crouching, you can combo f.S into Dauro (623P). I encourage not to cancel this move into Dauro all the time though. While a green Dauro is relatively safe on block by itself (-1), f.S > Dauro is not a true blockstring, meaning the opponent can stick out a reversal or a blitzshield in between them. If they instant block they can even grab or poke you out right before Dauro hits. Thankfully you have a lot more options on a blocked f.S, so try to mix-up what you're doing in order not to be predictable. On max range f.S you can summon a sword relatively safe even if your opponents instant blocks the f.S. You need to be wary that there's a huge gap after summoning a sword and sticking out another normal though. It's easy to poke you out unless the sword you summoned is already deployed and close to the opponent. Another option is you can jump cancel the f.S. Either jump back to safety or go for an instant air dash followed up by j.P or j.K. Again, the opponent has ways around the IAD j.P/j.K option since there's a big gap in between f.S and IAD j.P/j.K as well. They can also simply crouch, although I'm not 100% sure this applies for every character. One last thing I've seen Batako (on of the best japanese Ramlethal players) do is throwing out 214P after the blocked f.S. I haven't tested this myself but I'm pretty sure there are options for your opponent to play around it as well. I'd like to stress this out one more time: being unpredictable and knowing your and your opponents options is key in fighting games.

 

j.P: Probably one of the best air to air normals in this game. Unless your opponent outranges you with his air normal, you are most likely to win. It also chains into itself on hit or block, meaning you can stick out as many j.Ps as you want. On hit you can convert into a small combo ending with j.8D, f.e. j.PPP > j.8D. There isn't much more to say to it, except for the fact that it's really abusable.

 

sword summons: Now this is a little tricky. In general deploying swords is unsafe if the opponent knows you are going for it. You can make it safe by yellow roman canceling it.  Also note that by summoning your S sword, you'll lose your only decent grounded poke. Knowing when to summon swords is another thing that only comes with (match-up) experience. Against Potemkin for example, there's little he can do if you decide to summon a sword fullscreen. But against someone with hypermobility like Millia who just dashes/IADs in your face, it's very risky to do.

Here's a basic breakdown: deploying a sword recovers faster if you are on the ground. Once the sword is deployed, the recovery for using it again is a little bit higher. The recovery is faster in the air now, so do a j.6S/HS or j.2S/HS very low to the ground. Also note that the startup is significantly shortened if a deployed sword is close to the opponent (for 6S/HS summons from ~65 to ~25 frames and for 2S/2HS summons from ~90 to ~60 frames). This is just a general guideline and by no means something that is gonna happen all the time, but once you deploy your S sword, look out for the opponent to either jump or air dash over it. You can chose to either contest them in the air with j.P or to go for an airthrow or anti air 6P, although 6P is not the strongest. Deploying your H sword will make the opponent run towards you, so be ready to counterpoke with f.S. Once again, knowing your and your opponents option will make it a lot easier for you to decide what to do next.

 

 

What about her wake up? I feel completely at the mercy of anyone who manages to get me down. Seems I'm forced to just block on wake up, and I really envy the characters that have invincible DPs.

Ram's wake up options are very poor indeed. Most of the time you need to rely on this game's defensive system mechanics. Her 5P being 4 frames makes it a little easier to get out of strings with big gaps if your opponent is in your face, but you'll run into the risk of getting CH'd. She also has a reversal super for 50% tension (2363214K) but it's incredibly unsafe on block.

 

Speaking of DPs, any option to snuff out my opponent's wake ups? I can't seem to find anything on that front, aside from backing up a step and hoping they do something unsafe.

There are safe jumps, but since characters have different wake up timings, it's pretty hard to give you a setup that's universally usable. This video by emjay goes through two safe jump setups for both midscreen and corner that works against Sol at least.

You can also use swords to cover the opponents wake-up without giving up on pressure. With HS swords equipped, knock your opponent down with 2D and cancel into 6HS. The sword hits meaty and you can start pressuring afterwards without running into the risk of eating a reversal, but you're also gonna give up on a potential mix-up with 2K/6K/command grab (236K). With HS sword deployed and close to your opponent, you can cancel 2D into 2HS which will also hit meaty, leaving the opponent in a very long blockstun.

 

[magusheart]

Wow! Thanks so much, that's just the kind of info I need! Half the battle has been won, now I just need to practice a lot and stop sucking!

[rubedo777]

Hi, we played just now...

 

One of your big issues was that you didn't really block when you should have. We only had 2f of delay, so blocking was pretty possible in those circumstances but you were getting hit by lows, Task B seals and other stuff.

 

Didn't really mixup when you got the wakeup. This video is a good starting point for Ramlethal oki:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ZUAuS-G4I

[magusheart]

Oh my,  feedback!

 

I'm assuming you were the Mr Bedman I faced today? The "delay" had nothing to do with me failing to block. My defense is pretty poor in general, but on top of that, I have NO clue what Bedman does. I almost never get to fight one, and when I do I usually end up in the same panicked scrambled I did today. That's why I was not pressing any buttons after a few matches, I was making a poor attempt at learning to work on my defense and learning where the next hits might come from.

 

My mixups are also pathetic. I'm still learning combos in training and have yet to land a solid one in a real match (current goal, along with throws!) and haven't really worked on those. My best attempts at mixups are probably just switching my strings around, but all I get from those are corner pressure and no real combos. Thanks for the video though, that oughta help me on that front, even though some of those look waaay above my current execution level.

 

And thanks for taking the time to post here!

[magusheart]

Figured I'd update a bit and ask for some more stuff!

 

So I've gotten better. Much better. I still suck, but much less than I used to. I actually win matches now, and I've even begun to land combos for real. My bursts are bad, but I at least remember that I actually have a burst. I still need tons of match up experience with most characters and I need to stop being so free vs Slayer. He gets to me for some reason. RCs are also a thing that still elude me, I gotta figure those out, or at least throw them out randomly so I can remember to use them. I still mash some too, but that's very slowly getting better.

 

Where I need some big ol' help right now is on the dust loops. Most combos and setups I can just see them, practice and get a feel for them on my own, but the dust loops completely elude me, and I've given them a couple hours in training mode. It seems to me like I IAD too late, but I seem to be back in the air as soon as I land. Am I landing earlier than I think and not jumping as soon as I could? Any tricks to learn/practice the dust loops?

[Omicron Austin]

Keep trying to IAD sooner and sooner, and if the jump isn't coming out, then you're doing it too soon.  Make sure your IAD is clean as well; you might not be airdashing as immediately as you should be; if you're doing a motion like 866 instead of 96, that's definitely a possibility.

It can also depend on how you're setting it up.  If they're not high enough (or if they're too high), the combo won't be able to connect.  If you're doing this against a heavyweight character, you may need to do j.K > j.P > j.S > j.8D instead of the usual j.K > j.S > j.8D.

 

Also, I could be wrong on this, but I believe if you delay the j.8D a little bit, the second rep will often be easier to connect.

[magusheart]

I'm using 96, so I think my IAD's clean. I fly just over Sol's head in training mode. Then again, possible I'm doing it wrong while trying to do the loops, so that's definitely something to keep an eye on.

 

As far as the setup goes, I've seen this video which does it using 5H, so I think that should work? Or was that changed? I saw it was done quite differently in the combo video on the forums, but figured this would be easier to get me started on the actual thing and I can move to converting into combos later. My standard training dummies are Sol, Elphelt and May, and my problem in all cases thus far has been that they recover before I can get to them, which is why I thought I might not be jumping as soon as I could. I,ve yet to actually land the kick to follow up anything.

 

And yeah, you're correct on the delay for j.8D, but I'm still trying to find the timing on that.

[Omicron Austin]

Hmm...I'd never seen that starter before.  While I was able to do it, this combo seemed a fair bit more difficult than other versions I'm used to.  It also felt a little more tight on Sol than on Elphelt, but that could just be my imagination.  Elphelt is a lightweight though, and will be prone to being higher up during the combo.
 

You've probably thought of this already, but make sure you're hitting j.K early enough in your airdash.  It's easier said than done, since doing the move too early will force it to not come out, so in a way it is linking j.K off of your airdash timing.  The combo in the video is particularly difficult because you have to do j.S after the last airdash, which is significantly harder to do (j.S has 3 more frames of startup than j.K).

I'd suggest starting off with a simpler setup to practice the basic IAD combo and then come back to this starter.  If you start with your 236K in the corner (the command grab), then you can do either:
236K > [iAD j.K > j.S > j.8D] x 2 > dash PPP
236K > dash c.S > j.8D  >  [iAD j.K > j.S > j.8D] x 2 > dash PPP

For the first one, it's entirely possible to IAD too early, so you typically need to delay so that the opponent falls down farther.  It's a good way to see what heights do/don't work for the IAD combo.

If you're unfamiliar with the c.S > j.8D starter, the important things to note are that they should be as high as possible in the air when c.S hits, and the timing on jump cancelling into the j.8D can be a little tricky at first because of the hitstop involved (and you might end up just doing ground dust instead).

You can also go into those via something like (5S) > 2D > 623P (green) > c.S > j.8D > ......, but keep in mind this varies depending on character weights, and you may have to omit the 2D, do a non-green daruo, etc to make it connect.

EDIT: If all else fails, feel free to record a video of yourself attempting the combo and somebody here can troubleshoot it for you.

[magusheart]

Woohoo! Landed it! Now I'm off to grind until it's more than 1/50 successes!

 

I don't know if it's the command grab setup that made it easier than my previous one, but changing worked. Here are a few things I identified I was (probably still am) doing wrong. I think my IAD wasn't as clean as it could be. I noticed after grinding for a bit that I managed to get slightly lower IADs, so that probably helped a ton. My j.K was also not coming out I think, I hit that too early. Other new players, learn from my mistakes!

 

So thanks a bunch Omicron, that was great help!

[AmayaGin]

Just gonna throw my own 2 cents in here. I haven't been playing long, but I've gotten a really good feel for Ram and her less technical abilities. The majority of my fighting career has been Ultimate Ninja Storm, and while VERY different, is surprisingly similar to Ramlethal in many applications. Please excuse my lack of abbreviations, I'm new to the whole fighting genre.

 

Wake-up:

Crouch swords. Unbelievably brilliant. I usually start with DownSlash, because it comes in from above, but if your opponent is in the midst of standing up, the DownHeavySlash might work better, as it comes in from below. Use them in conjunction, as the delay between the two can catch a lot of people off guard. Even against rank 7-9 people, I've been able to land some serious damage as they block the first sword, and jump or try to CH only to get hit by the second. Once that's done, you can lead into other combos or just keep mashing DownSlash/DownHeavyslash for extra deeps.

 

Pokes:

Both Kick and Punch come out unbelievably quickly, albeit at a much shorter range. I usually use DownKick to punish. It has the added advantage of moving you forward, inching you closer, and transitions into Ram's many Kick/Punch combos quite well. Additionally, if your HS sword is deployed, DownHS or ForwardHS (can't remember which) does a quick downward slash from above. A little more situational than the Kick/Punch option, but can be hard to see coming if you're distracting your opponent with other moves. 

 

Safe Pressure:

I'm sure there are a thousand better ways to do this, but I've been having great luck with deploying both swords and dashing in for Punch/Kick combos. Anytime you get a breather, like knocking your opponent down or during a decent recovery, send out your sword again. I've had best results with only using one at a time and then jumping in for more Punch/Kicks. It keeps the damage coming from multiple angles and if you can get good at positioning them, can create some real problems for your target.

 

Sword Activation:

So hard. The damn start up time on those suckers in painful. It takes a while, but eventually you get the knack of planning your attacks 1-2 seconds in advance. That part is all about practice, and developing that Ramlethal intuition. A couple of helpful tips;

Swords can be activated from mid-air. A favorite of mine is to use DownSlash on approach and come in with Kick+Punch+Kick. By the time it finished, the sword's swinging in and hitting your target from behind.  

Activate swords before dashing in. Makes a great pairing, and it's tough to defend both a Kick/Punching Ramlethal and her swords hammering down on you. Can be used to lead into the aforementioned Safe Pressure tactic.

 

S'all for now. Posting this less to help Magusheart specifically, and more for any other newbies like myself seeking Ramlethal help. If I've made any glaring errors, please let me know.

[Nyaa]

You should use the common agreed upon input notations. New players should learn them as well as they make stuff way more readable and it's universally used by players in every corner of the world. That means using numbers as directional numbers, like 4 = back, 2 = down, 6 = forward, 5 = neutral, etc. And for attack buttons, P, K, S, HS/H and D are used to indicate punch, kick, slash, heavy-slash and dust.

 

I would personally disagree on using 5K as a poke. It's dangerously slow to use in close range and at middle/long range there are no real reasons not to use 5S instead. In close range, 5P and cS are faster and gives a lot more on hit, 5K doesn't award a lot on hit. 5S at long range is just 1 frame slower than 5K and have greater range, but 5K seems to get a speedbuff in the coming patch should we trust the latest loctest. It might become more useful, but not in its current state. Ram 2K is another story as it gives a knockdown on hit for OKI and evades some stuff, though it's not a true low profile.

 

2K as a punish, not very good. You can do 2KPK/2KK for a knockdown but in situations where you can punish with 2K you can punish with cS for way more damage and same/better knockdown.

 

About the down-slash against wakeups, I think you have them mixed up. 2S is the one that comes from below while 2H is the one that comes from above, and 2S is the one to use, though it should never be used if you don't have both swords equipped. Blocked 2S without 2H followup means death to Ram as it's incredibly punishable. 2S > 2H against wakeups isn't free as a good player might try to backdash on wakeup avoiding 2S entirely which means you can't cancel into 2H. Again, certain doom unless you have the meter to cancel it. Speaking of meter, using 2S>2H gives a lot of meter on both block and hit which is great! Most Ram-players prefer to go for an oki-setup instead, as Rams strength lies in her oki and not on blockstun.