Reioumu Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Yeah, pad sucks for execution. I honestly can't do 623 motion consistently from the 1p side on pad.
Kicks Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 What do you guys do after command throw? I've noticed that in the corner you can 2A right away, if it hits, go into combo. If they tech and it whiffs, immediately go for 5C. Seems to always catch no matter which way they tech. Maybe you could 2C or 2A again for a mixup. Dunno if 2A is meaty enough though for a brainless non reactionary followup. What do you guys do if an opponent is always barrier blocking your block strings? I get pushed out mad far, it sucks, then I get countered.
Reioumu Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 What do you guys do after command throw? I've noticed that in the corner you can 2A right away, if it hits, go into combo. If they tech and it whiffs, immediately go for 5C. Seems to always catch no matter which way they tech. Maybe you could 2C or 2A again for a mixup. Dunno if 2A is meaty enough though for a brainless non reactionary followup. What do you guys do if an opponent is always barrier blocking your block strings? I get pushed out mad far, it sucks, then I get countered. If they put up a barrier, try to grab them If not, uh, maybe throw in a 2369a/b/d at the end of your blockstring then.
AtTheGates Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 against barrier block, throw or use continous 5A, delayed 5A, dash up 5A. don't go for 5A,5B,2B, you willget pushed away too far before you can even jump cancel. after ground command throw, i usually air dash at the last moment after falling, then i check what the opp is doing and use my 2nd airdash accordingly.
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 NOTE: Furrinkazan does not change how much heat you gain on attacks, whether they are blocked or land. Second note: Heat gain is not exact numbers in blazblue, you gain slightly more than 1 heat per every hit that lands when it is not in a combo, and you gain a % of 1 heat when a move is blocked. And you gain a certain amount of heat from attacks that combo together, the heat gain in combos is prorated by what the combo started with, and is also effected by how many hits are in the combo. Further explained below. Bang heat gain: Note that counter hits do not increase heat gain. Non combo, on hit: 5a: 1.416 heat 2a: 1.086 heat 6a: 5.277 heat 5b: 4.636 heat 2b: 4.523 heat 6b: 6.4 heat 5c: 6.25 heat 2c: 6.75 heat 6c: 7 heat 3c: 6.333 heat 5d: 7.2 heat 2d: 7.666 heat 6d: 7.666 heat 623b: 7.333 heat 623b(air): 8 heat 623c: 1)4 heat 2)5 heat 3)6 heat - Total 15 623c(air): 1)5 heat 2) 5 heat 3) 8 heat - Total 18 j.a: 1.25 heat j.b: 4.1 heat j.c: 6 heat j.4c: 6.166 heat j.d: 7.2 heat j.236a: 2.2 heat Note: 0 heat is gained for poison damage j.236b: 2.2 heat Note: The bomb explosion hit also gains you 2.2 heat j.236c: 2.2 heat j.236d: Each single drive nail hit grants you 3 heat, however, if two combo, you gain 5, if all 3 combo, you gain 7 Throw: 8 heat 4Throw: 8 heat Air throw: 13 heat Air 4throw: 13 heat On block i believe you gain a certain % of 1 heat per attack, so this is currently going to take awhile. For example: If you 5b and it is blocked, you gain 1 heat. If you 5b again, you gain another 1 heat, however, if you 5b a third time, you gain 2 heat, then the pattern repeats. So by logical thoughts, 5b grants you 1.5 tension, but the game does not round up. So by that (and im also calculating it per move and am able to multiply the heat gain by the # of attacks im doing to make a perfect estimate) Side note: Unless arcsys actually releases the % of heat gained by blocked attacks, there will ALWAYS be some overflow from the .41041047120947901247 numbers For example: at a 1.92 heat gain on blocked 2cs, 36 2cs would equal 69.12 heat. And to make it to 70 heat, you would have to by the chart; do 3 2as, or 3 5as, however 2 2a's will push you to 70 heat, and 2 5as will also push you to 70 heat. There's alot of calculating that needs to be done for it to ever be perfect, but at least this is a rough draft and a start, maybe someone with more time than I have can find the small number flaws that I'm getting. I believe that all of these moves gain slightly more heat than I'm listing. On block, gatling or not, doesn't matter: 5a: 0.425 heat on block 2a: 0.36 heat on block 6a: 1.5 heat on block 5b: 1.5 heat on block 2b: 1.285 heat on block 6b: 1.84 heat on block 5c: 1.666 heat on block 2c: 1.92 heat on block 6c: 2 heat on block 3c: 1.86 heat on block 5d: 2 heat on block 2d: 2 heat on block 6d: 2 heat on block 623b: 2.42 heat on block 623b(air): 2.666 heat on block 236a(air): .747 heat on block 236b(air): .747 heat on block 236c(air): .747 heat on block 236d(air): 1 heat on block each. j.a: .36 heat on block j.b: 1.166 heat on block j.c: 1.75 heat on block j.4c: 1.75 heat on block j.d: 2 heat on block By this block heat gain listing, a blocked chain of 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > 6d > 623b should added together total out to be 9.525 heat gain, which it does, and if you add 5a after that blockstring ends, it pushes the 9.525 to 10.0, so my calculations are only about .005 heat off, unless BB rounds up when you're at the .95 mark. Note: Heat gain during combos seems to be prorated by the move you start it with, for example: 5a, 5b (combo, 2 hits) 5a grants you 1 tension, 5b grants you 4 tension, totaling to 5. 2a, 5b (combo, 2 hits) 2a grants you 1 tension, 5b grants you 2 tension, totaling to 3. I also went by the thought of "heat gain is prorated" and went and tried throws, since they ignore proration in combos, they also ignore the heat gain proration, so a throw in any combo will gain its normal heat, regardless of how many hits done before hand, it gains the same heat, and does the same damage. The problem is, that after so many hits your heat gain slows in a combo anyway, so after your heat gain is prorated by whatever move you start with, a certain number of hits later it's going to be cut down anyway. I have decided that gain during combos is not worth it, the heat gain scales down to points in combos where you gain .2 heat or .25 heat after 5-6 hits. However the following throws all retain their normal heat gain. Gain during combos for throws ONLY. 623c: 1)4 heat 2)5 heat 3)6 heat - Total 15 623c(air): 1)5 heat 2) 5 heat 3) 8 heat - Total 18 Throw: 8 heat 4Throw: 8 heat Air throw: 13 heat Air 4throw: 13 heat
AtTheGates Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 very interesting info! i was sure that there was a formula to calculate heat gain over time, like in guilty gear, where you would gain huge amounts of tension if some factors played in etc. ..so this is quite new info for me.
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 The during combo heat gain is going to take a very long time, I'm not sure if it's even worth it. Heat gain changes depending on what move you start the combo with, for instance, if you start a combo with 5a, then do 5b, 5a is 1 heat, 5b is 4 heat, totaling to 5 heat. But if you do 2a, then do 5b, 2a is 1 heat, and 5b is 2 heat, totaling to 3 heat. Edit: Yeah, confirmed and updated, heat gain is prorated by the move you start the combo with, and then it is cut down again by how many hits happen in the combo. On hit heat gain updated. During combo heat is a lost cause, on hit heat and on block heat gain are the only two that I will continue to update if i find changes.
Goryus Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 The during combo heat gain is going to take a very long time, I'm not sure if it's even worth it. Heat gain changes depending on what move you start the combo with, for instance, if you start a combo with 5a, then do 5b, 5a is 1 heat, 5b is 4 heat, totaling to 5 heat. But if you do 2a, then do 5b, 2a is 1 heat, and 5b is 2 heat, totaling to 3 heat. Edit: Yeah, confirmed and updated, heat gain is prorated by the move you start the combo with, and then it is cut down again by how many hits happen in the combo. On hit heat gain updated. During combo heat is a lost cause, on hit heat and on block heat gain are the only two that I will continue to update if i find changes. Heat gain is directly proportional to the amount of damage dealt. You get less heat if you start with 2A because the damage proration is so severe.
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Heat gain is directly proportional to the amount of damage dealt. You get less heat if you start with 2A because the damage proration is so severe. Excellent information to know. So making a listing for that would be futile like I thought, thank you Goryus.
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Contrary to popular belief, Bang can land guard crushes rather frequently, the problem is that when some bang players see their enemy flashing, they go for 5a > 5b > 2b > 236d > land 5a blah blah nail pressure. To clear some things up, the heavier the attack you use the more it effects the guard libra, which is why you see Ragnas eating people that are blocking, so here's the info on that; There are 100 points total in the guard libra, 50 for you, and 50 for your opponent. The libra starts at 0 (inbetween both players) From neutral, without your enemy barrier blocking OR instant blocking, 50 points will crush your enemy guard, this list shows how much each attack does. 50|_|_|_|_|_|0|_|_|_|_|_|50 Guard Libra Modifying Attacks 5a: This deals 2 push on the guard libra, 25 of them from neutral will break your opponents guard. 2a: This deals 1 push on the guard libra, 50 of them from neutral will break your opponents guard. 6a: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 5b: This deals 3.85 push on the guard libra. 2b: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 6b: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 6c: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 5c: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 2c: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. 3c: This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. 5d: This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. 6d: This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. 2d: This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. 236a(air): This deals 2 push on the guard libra. 236b(air): This deals 2 push on the guard libra. Note: Bomb explosion does 5 push to the guard libra. 236c(air): This deals 0 push on the guard libra. 236d(air): These do 2 push each on the guard libra, totaling to 6 if all 3 drive nails are blocked. 623b: This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. 623b(air): This deals 6.25 push on the guard libra. j.B: This deals 3.85 push on the guard libra. j.A: This deals 2 push on the guard libra. j.C: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. j.4C: This deals 5 push on the guard libra. What this means really, is that with 50% tension and 3 drive nails, you can run up and freely crush your enemies guard if they aren't barrier blocking / instant blocking; 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > 623b > rapid > dash > 5a > 5b > 2b > jump cancel > tk 236d > land 5a > 5b > 2b > guard crush > free combo. Or if your opponent doesn't jump out or mash out of pressure, you can really lay into them and avoid having to tk nails for the break: 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > 6d > 623b > rapid > dash > 5a > 5b > 2b > 2c > 623b > guard crush. And with the previous information on heat gain, you can get some crazy things done once you hit around 40 tension, you can gain the heat needed during the chain by moving some things around. Hell with 90 tension, and 4 seals, you can have a field day - even from midscreen. Nezu loop and my loop setup, 90% tension beginning, 4 seal requirement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZyLquQD8y0 It's a hefty price but, 100% tension to guarantee a burst / 5.5k damage / nezu loop resets, is well worth it, because after a 4 seal combo, or 4 combos with seals in them, that ends a match. And for now I'm done, time to resume my outside life until tomorrow.
DaiAndOh Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Great info! I feel that without loop setups, this will be more valuable on characters that we have our more damaging heatless combos on.
zeth07 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Awesome stuff, you guys are really starting to figure out some advanced tactics with Bang. I'm light years behind all this, I can't even get 1 combo down to 100% efficiency.
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Great info! I feel that without loop setups, this will be more valuable on characters that we have our more damaging heatless combos on. Definitely. You also have the option to 2d > j.d > land > 2b > 623b > 2363214C distortion, I only went for the overhead because I'm lazy, and only created that video for reference to guard crushes. There's a ton bang can do out of it though, hell run up 623C if they have less than 2.5k left, unburstable after the command throw lands.
DaiAndOh Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Definitely. You also have the option to 2d > j.d > land > 2b > 623b > 2363214C distortion, I only went for the overhead because I'm lazy, and only created that video for reference to guard crushes. There's a ton bang can do out of it though, hell run up 623C if they have less than 2.5k left, unburstable after the command throw lands. I thought you can't kill with the combo after a guard crush IIRC?
Goryus Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I thought you can't kill with the combo after a guard crush IIRC? You can, just not after a guard crush caused by a burst.
RPGsFTW Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I'm going to have to try 2D more. It seems as if it's a much better drive attack than the 5D, as far as the threads say. Any reason to it though? Does it usually set up for an air combo, 4 seal combo, etc, better than 5D? I only ask because it seems really hard to hit with. And teleportation wise, which button should I go with after an autoguard from a distance? I'm preparing for my next tournament, this Sunday, the 12th, and this time I want to do better than last my last Sunday rank of 2nd. =) I seem to be pretty solid in most ways so far though. I'm always working on perfecting Bang's combos.
AtTheGates Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I'm going to have to try 2D more. It seems as if it's a much better drive attack than the 5D, as far as the threads say. Any reason to it though? Does it usually set up for an air combo, 4 seal combo, etc, better than 5D? I only ask because it seems really hard to hit with. And teleportation wise, which button should I go with after an autoguard from a distance? 5D is excellent - only 4F startup until the guard point and a much wider hitbox than 2D. 2D has an absolutely terrible hitbox horizontally. still, damage and seals off of 2D are much better than for 5D.
RPGsFTW Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 5D is excellent - only 4F startup until the guard point and a much wider hitbox than 2D. 2D has an absolutely terrible hitbox horizontally. still, damage and seals off of 2D are much better than for 5D. Oh, alrighty. That's why I was confused as to why I hear 2D instead. The range on 2D is why I don't use it much, that and 5D autoguards high, mid, and low attacks. However, I do notice the better positioning that 2D puts you in, allowing easier air combos on the opponent. Is the teleportation I can use with 2D, any but mostly 2D for its bad range, any useful? I'm not sure if teleporting always puts me next to the opponent, to help getting the hit.
Rhyllis Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I hope this isn't off topic or anything. I'm fairly certain there's better places I could post this question, but I'd rather ask other Bang players than anybody else. Cause a Bang player never turns their back on another Bang player. Right? Anyhow, my question are these: When I'm in a combo, what should I be doing? Are there any tricks to learn? Until recently I've been content with mashing A to try and wake up and perhaps stop the combo, but that doesn't seem to work all the time anymore. It's like I just get combo'd anyway, even if I wake up before the combo is finished. Not only that, but when I mash an attack button to try and wake up as soon as possible I seem to fall pray to throws. If I'm being thrown while I'm trying to mash buttons to wake up and accidentally "attack" while I'm about to be thrown, can I not tech the throw? Maybe I'm just too slow about it, but it would be nice to know if I can or can't. Then I'd know if my "Mash A!" method is worse than I thought. Also when I'm blocking on the ground I suffer just as much. Bang doesn't have very good, or at least very fast jabs, so I can't really hope to hit them back. It's just a matter of time before I get hit with some overhead and get into a damaging combo. When I play against other characters it somewhat frustrates me that they can just jab me out of my basic combos if I'm slightly too slow, but Bang can't seem to do the same (At least not as well.) Or maybe there's something I'm missing. I'm really suffering when put under strong pressure. I'm fairly new to BlazBlue, and to fighting games in general, but I'm hoping to learn this game and get skilled at it. I can't do that if I can't defend myself properly. I'd appreciate any tips and any help. Thank you for reading.
10stars Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I hope this isn't off topic or anything. I'm fairly certain there's better places I could post this question, but I'd rather ask other Bang players than anybody else. Cause a Bang player never turns their back on another Bang player. Right? Anyhow, my question are these: When I'm in a combo, what should I be doing? Are there any tricks to learn? Until recently I've been content with mashing A to try and wake up and perhaps stop the combo, but that doesn't seem to work all the time anymore. It's like I just get combo'd anyway, even if I wake up before the combo is finished. Not only that, but when I mash an attack button to try and wake up as soon as possible I seem to fall pray to throws. If I'm being thrown while I'm trying to mash buttons to wake up and accidentally "attack" while I'm about to be thrown, can I not tech the throw? Maybe I'm just too slow about it, but it would be nice to know if I can or can't. Then I'd know if my "Mash A!" method is worse than I thought. Also when I'm blocking on the ground I suffer just as much. Bang doesn't have very good, or at least very fast jabs, so I can't really hope to hit them back. It's just a matter of time before I get hit with some overhead and get into a damaging combo. When I play against other characters it somewhat frustrates me that they can just jab me out of my basic combos if I'm slightly too slow, but Bang can't seem to do the same (At least not as well.) Or maybe there's something I'm missing. I'm really suffering when put under strong pressure. I'm fairly new to BlazBlue, and to fighting games in general, but I'm hoping to learn this game and get skilled at it. I can't do that if I can't defend myself properly. I'd appreciate any tips and any help. Thank you for reading. 5a mashing is not going to get you anywhere. When you're teching from combos, you should always be teching with A and B, and be ready to break the grab when or if it happens after a tech. If you're being poked out of your combos, then you're linking moves together that don't actually combo. Sit in training mode for awhile, the basics need to be learned, you won't get very far mashing the A button. Eventually you can learn things to completely avoid throw attempts that you see comming, like 1+A+B+C, it breaks throws for 11 frames, counter throw or not.
Rhyllis Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 5a mashing is not going to get you anywhere. When you're teching from combos, you should always be teching with A and B, and be ready to break the grab when or if it happens after a tech. If you're being poked out of your combos, then you're linking moves together that don't actually combo. Sit in training mode for awhile, the basics need to be learned, you won't get very far mashing the A button. Eventually you can learn things to completely avoid throw attempts that you see comming, like 1+A+B+C, it breaks throws for 11 frames, counter throw or not. I appreciate the help 10stars. Thank you very much. Hopefully I'll be bale to do Bang a bit better justice now.
FatalEruption Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I read a bit through this thread and havent seen much on what to do off of bangs normal ground throw. I'm just curious what you guys do. w/o RC i just do 236C before the kick and then do combo of choice with 50% tension same thing as before but just do 236C into super or 50% tension for a seal after the initial kick i do 623B, RC, airdash, j.D, 2B, 6C, jc, j.B, j.C,(or 623C for mixup) 236A 100% tension in corner- after the kick, 623B, RC, j.D, 6239C, 2363214C (Not worth the tension but looks cool and gets you 1 seal) I'm just looking for some advice on what his best options are off his normal throw and what you guys do for the most damage
RPGsFTW Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I read a bit through this thread and havent seen much on what to do off of bangs normal ground throw. I'm just curious what you guys do. w/o RC i just do 236C before the kick and then do combo of choice I've never thought of the web shuriken for that before. Is it very useful? I usually do the 623B for the little extra damage, though getting the enemy stuck sounds really nice. I'm going to have to test that myself and see how good I can use it. The question I've had for awhile is this: When doing the running super with Bang, what are the best follow-ups, if any? Usually I try to 5A then predict what they are doing. I think 10Stars' video that showed the tech trap with 5A into jumping 623C seemed cool, but of course it is purely situational.
Goryus Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Hey 10stars, I have a question about that loop you discovered (2b > j.4c loop). It only works on crouching opponents, right? If that's the case, can you make it work on a standing opponent by starting with 5C (which forces them into a crouching state on hit)?
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