null Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 hey uh... sorry to kind-of interrupt the discussion, there isn't really an arakune vs hakumen thread on the arakune boards. here's the situation: I've only fought one hakumen player at the arcade I go to and he's definitely the best player there. I have such a hard time against him, but I've recently been doing better against him by rushing close up at the beginning of the match rather than sending a cloud out and hoping for curse at the start. the thing is, when I do get to the point when I need to send out a cloud, hakumen easily 2Cs it and I really don't know how to punish it. Should I j.6D? I don't think I can attack physically without risking getting hit by it since it doesn't have much delay afterwards... then again I've only actually fought a hakumen 2 or 3 times so I don't have much experience with him. sorry to bother you hakumen players, I respect your patience with your character.
ryokoalways Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 You have a variety of range d moves that you can curse him with. If he consistently try to kill cloud, nail him with the snail or the tail or whatever. Most of all, you need to outmaneuver hakumen during the trying to curse him part of the round. So know all your mobility moves/attacks. Honestly, if you just keep dropping shit on our heads we are at a fair disadvantage. It's us that has to take a chance, not you, which is why it is in your favor.
JackG Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Null: At the start of the round, you just want to get a cloud out, no matter what. Super jump back > double jump > cloud at the start is completely safe. hakumen cannot jump as high, also his air throw range sucks and his moves don't really hit above him (save from j.214b, which you won't have at the start.) So getting a cloud out is 100% guaranteed, believe me. After you get a cloud out, you basically either teleport behind and force it on him or if you have the one that just floats above, you can just summon Bell, Blurp (3D) and slowly advance and watch as he gets negative penalty. If he trys to 2C your cloud, you can hit him with a j.D pretty much anywhere on the screen for a curse and combo. alternatively, just back him into a corner and (with the aerial cloud) do 3D xN and guardcrush him/take all his barrier and THEN guard crush him. I understand Hakumen's IAD j.C seems pretty overpowering at first, but Arakune has lots of escape options that let you pretty much avoid any attempt he has of getting in.
Kumlekar Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 JackG covered the matchup pretty well but a few notes from a far less expierence player: if he traps you, remember your teleport between the screen edges, I see very few arakune players using it, but its incredible for getting some breathing room. When you have a cloud on the screen, DON'T LET HIM SLICE IT! Basically don't stay in your clouds, use them to limit his motion, but if you have them and a 4D bug out you should be attacking, and trying to land a curse. If you're not attacking when you have projectiles on screen, you're giving him stars. If you are inside of a cloud, that means that he only has to slash at one area to both hurt you and gain meter instead of having to choose one and avoid the other. This isn't to say that the cloud that follows you is bad, but it means you have to stay ahead of the thing.
reaVer Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 If you have to choose between Arakune and his cloud you always should attack Arakune. That cloud takes time to get to you(if it ever does) and you should be able to get a good mixup off or scare the shit out of him making you able to deal with the cloud afterwards(or make it disappear altogether).
null Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 thanks good advice! i'll definitely be better prepared the next time i face that hakumen
Kumlekar Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 If you have to choose between Arakune and his cloud you always should attack Arakune. That cloud takes time to get to you(if it ever does) and you should be able to get a good mixup off or scare the shit out of him making you able to deal with the cloud afterwards(or make it disappear altogether). My point wasn't so much that the haku player has to make a choice as that arakune standing in his own cloud eliminates the threat from the cloud.
Blade Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Minor thing: A cornered Arakune spitting curse at you is baiting you, as to why he thinks he's cornered I have no idea...
Kumlekar Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 what do you do if you see arakune ground dash in this matchup? Theres this ambiguous range where its very hard to tell if he'll cross you up or not, or if hes back dashing, so whats the best response?
oda777 Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 i think you just have to get used to the distance when he dashes. it seems to be always a set amount of space . as for how to react to it. i got no idea...
Kumlekar Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 It is a set amount of space, but there is a point where its only a few pixels between crossing up and not crossing up. Any reaction to it would have to work for both situations. I'm trying to jump back j.C but half the time i'm in the middle of hitting a cloud when he dashes, leaving me open. Also I just found out the hard way not to roll out of the corenr when hes and point blank and has tension. His aerial distortion drive sucks to be hit with on wakeup. My god that D bug is driving me insane. It takes off like 1/5 of haku's health with no other attacks involved.
pulsr Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I've given up on this match in all honesty. Atleast Tager has spark bolt... I can't really think of a situation where Hakumen can safely attack Arakune. This match feels like complete luck if I win.
JackG Posted July 16, 2009 Author Posted July 16, 2009 I have started learning v-13 due to bad online arakunes kicking the shit out of me. That is the new strategy. Also if you guys were thinking of trying to 5D arakune's j.B bullshit, think again. It either whiffs or clashes if you do actually get the counter.
qwerty Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I've given up on this match in all honesty. Atleast Tager has spark bolt... I can't really think of a situation where Hakumen can safely attack Arakune. This match feels like complete luck if I win. arakune is definitely a pain, but i feel that if you play smart you can earn your wins. he can be punished during landing recovery (god damn i harp on this so much but it's seriously the only guaranteed punish you have against him) and you can catch him during dumb cloud setups that are done way too close to the ground (though most good arakunes won't be doing this very often). of course the hardest thing about the top three for hakumen isn't knowing what to do, rather being able to do it. you basically can't afford to make any mistakes because they all have incredible oki games and from there your only second chance is coming from a burst.
yakitate304 Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 I have started learning v-13 due to bad online arakunes kicking the shit out of me. That is the new strategy. There is a lot of truth to this. I can't tell you how many times I come across Hakumen mainers (many of whom don't have Nu as their sub), and I end up facing Nu.
Blade Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm finding 2D and the bell bug especially annoying when spammed, any workarounds?
faultydefense Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Hakumen vs Arakune When the match starts you should hold down the power button until your game resets then head to training mode. Batton down some v-13 or arakune combos then head back to network mode and give it another shot.
Blade Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Wuss. Just cause Haku's low tier doesn't mean it's impossible.
faultydefense Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 if your cursed block, if he's got a cloud attempt to swat/counter it, chase him down carefully, don't extend yourself on the ground or you'll eat his j.D, be ready to block AT ALL TIMES as he can lunge at you from practically anywhere j.214B is your friend as it beats his dive if your caught cursed in the air, barrier back down frame traps suck as he's just gonna be mashing jump away no matter what you do (the shitty ones will be mashing their 2C/grab/super, thats when you know you have a chance) you can't counter shit as he's almost always safe what'd i miss when you're done nearly losing to the worst player you've seen get a lucky curse into 50% mash air combo and then play a good arakune who lets you touch him once, bursts, and never lets you get near him again, maybe you'll consider my last strategy
ryokoalways Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I highly suggest actually learning arakune (just slightly) to understand this matchup better. Knowing the actual capabilities of each move made my life a lot easier. This matchup is still all kinds of bullshit though. Arakune simply has too much mobility.
whitevoid Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Wuss. Just cause Haku's low tier doesn't mean it's impossible. It's not impossible but your strategy is basically... 1) Don't get cursed. - If you do this, you probably will win. 2) Don't get hit while cursed. - If you do this, you probably will win. If you fail this simple 2 step strategy, you lose the game. But the thing is if you can succeed at this simple 2 step strategy, then you are just at a significantly higher level of skill (at least in terms of that match) than the other player. So "strategy" is sort of moot when you are basically good enough to block everything.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I find this match up goes much easier if you are more on the offensive than defensive. NOt necessarily blindly swinging you massive sword around like Zaraki Kenpachi from Bleach but simply not jsut waiting for arakune to attack you. The best time to be defensive is when you are cursed which is THE most difficult thing since you have to simultaneously pay attention to both the entire screen as to watch out for bees and watch where arakune is going and where you are in case of a grab, I personally have won more matches against arakune being cautiously aggressive from the get go n then trap him in the corner and molest him without remorse. While he is low to the ground enough for haku-men to approach him from the air I find 2c to be the msot effective since it most likely lands a counter hit allowing him to be sent into the corner for the molestation to begin until he somehow finds a way to teleport. I have a cousin who uses arakune so this match up is much easier for me than those who dont have someone regular to play against. Which is why I wish I knew someone who uses Nu so I can build experience against her since matches against skilled Nu' last roughly 30 seconds with me landing one combo on them.
TyrantShark Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 I've lurked these boards for a long time with no reason to make an account and post. Usually my questions were asked and answered before I had them (Like, how to stop Slayer from creeping for Tension to DoT your face clean off when you advance or avoiding Zato's unblockable strings) But this Arakune bullshit has me perplexed. I usually find Haku has an answer for every match-up, provided he has the maga to use it. This shit though? Arakune has an answer for every possible situation in this match-up and is, 9/10 times, completely safe to do it. So my questions are these: Arakune's B/C Bug Loop: Is there a way out of this without bursting or waiting for a black beat halfway into my life? I feel like I've tried everything here, but once he's got in my face with a curse, there's not much I can do. Ara's Insect Corner Trap: And this, any way out besides a gimmick prayer Yukikaze?(Provided you find an opening) The only thing that seems to 100% get me out of the corner is jump and let his D bug carry me out for 25-35% of my life, and I'm still cursed and in a terrible position. Overhead Cloud: Unless Ara is recovering from a whiff, this cloud seems to be a guaranteed curse if you try to whack it thanks to his full-screen j.D. From what I've seen, most Ara's will simply spam j.D or 2D at various ranges to push you into the corner and keep you from advancing. I know the motto is: "Don't get cursed and you win" but I rarely go an entire match against a good Arakune who doesn't get me cursed at some point. Which easily turns a 60% lead into a neck-neck match or GG for you.
ryokoalways Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 The only one I have no clear answer for is the 2d corner lockdown. You need a shit load of IB to get out of that one. Against everything else, nothing to do other than to take the shit he throws at you. Block, block, and keep blocking until you can find an opening to air dash in or kishuu in or something. Against overhead cloud, find an opening to 2c it. make sure you don't just do it randomly because he can curse you with j6d(not sure) if you just try to kill it everytime. Otherwise just let it stay on top of you. It's the only cloud I don't care too much about.
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