JackG Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Taokaka Matchup Statistics Japanese Ranking: [finput][/finput] yet Personally: Punishes: Anti-airing: Zoning: Their game plan: Strategy: Char specific details:
Kumlekar Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Any suggestions for this matchup? I'm currently playing it ultra defensive and waiting for a counter, but that means taking a beating in the process.
pewter Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I find this one of the easier match-ups, you've just got to be ballsy with your distortion drive. Most of Tao's moves are fast but she's got ones with longer start-ups than 1f (the startup for 6d 2d or j.d). Block her for a while, let yourself get to know when she throws her heavier attacks, as opposed to pokes which you shouldn't be trying to auto-guard. Then -- once you auto-guard you can get your damage in. Taokakas HAVE to be aggressive in order to win, and if they try to start pulling that stick'n'move crap, try TK 236c for some heavy damage to punish 2a mash poke. The difficulty is Hakumen seems to love getting people in the corner, but Taokaka is astounding at getting OUT of the corner, so just don't try to rely on it. Keep your cool, pace yourself, take your damage where you can get it, and if you can set up a j.2c combo, for the love of justice, take it.
Fenix Darkblaze Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Taokaka seems to favor a really aggressive style, and against Hakumen that can usually mean doom. Hakumen rips apart aggressive players, if the Hakumen can keep his cool and react to attacks quick enough. This is one of my easier matchups.
Kumlekar Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Taokaka seems to favor a really aggressive style, and against Hakumen that can usually mean doom. Hakumen rips apart aggressive players, if the Hakumen can keep his cool and react to attacks quick enough. This is one of my easier matchups. I find her j.D really hard to counter because its hard to tell if she'll do j.d or j.2d. If you expect the wrong one she gets a free combo. I guess this means I should be countering with 6d instead of 5D, but its still difficult. Most good tao players seem to favor a hit and run stragety until they hit with a drive move and link into a combo.
Renz Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 If the haku-men can be more aggressive than me, then usually he wins. Take in mind one swipe of your sword = avg. combo from me. Being passive is great if you can mix it up, but once again, letting taokaka have dominance is almost suicide in most situations.
Fenix Darkblaze Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Her grabs are also used as a good set up for one of her typical air combos, so fighting against that has really helped me react quickly to grab attempts - so I suppose that's a good thing.
Silhouette Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Anybody having serious problems with this match is trying to face down a Taokaka demigod or is making an attempt to C-spam their way to victory. Which do you think is more likely? My money's on the latter. Taokaka is fast as hell, and she's got priority over pretty much all your C attacks (with the possible exception of 3C, and that's iffy), and if you manage to get one off and miss, you will be punished. Best advice is to not be afraid to actually acknowledge the existence of 6A and 6B, actually, your B array in general is pretty good here. 623AA/236A/236B are all good as well. And if you time it right, I'm relatively certain that 5C and knock her out of some of her bullshit (her Drive, namely, I believe), too. I'm a little lacking in a few of the particulars of this matchup; I only got to really play it yesterday and the day before. If you can be patient and block the greatest hits of her massive array of bullshit, and accumulate some magatama, you can go on the offensive and scare the living shit/fuck/bejesus trifecta out of your opponent. Her Guard Libra rate is obscenely low (80%, right?), and as such, she gets crushed if she doesn't run the hell away. Now, I'm going to reiterate to be as emphatic has humanly possible: Do NOT be tempted to overuse Cs against her (or against anyone, anywhere, at any given moment, for that matter). The C button is not your friend, it is a whore that will betray you.
Kumlekar Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Anybody having serious problems with this match is trying to face down a Taokaka demigod or is making an attempt to C-spam their way to victory. Which do you think is more likely? My money's on the latter. Taokaka is fast as hell, and she's got priority over pretty much all your C attacks (with the possible exception of 3C, and that's iffy), and if you manage to get one off and miss, you will be punished. Best advice is to not be afraid to actually acknowledge the existence of 6A and 6B, actually, your B array in general is pretty good here. 623AA/236A/236B are all good as well. And if you time it right, I'm relatively certain that 5C and knock her out of some of her bullshit (her Drive, namely, I believe), too. I'm a little lacking in a few of the particulars of this matchup; I only got to really play it yesterday and the day before. If you can be patient and block the greatest hits of her massive array of bullshit, and accumulate some magatama, you can go on the offensive and scare the living shit/fuck/bejesus trifecta out of your opponent. Her Guard Libra rate is obscenely low (80%, right?), and as such, she gets crushed if she doesn't run the hell away. Now, I'm going to reiterate to be as emphatic has humanly possible: Do NOT be tempted to overuse Cs against her (or against anyone, anywhere, at any given moment, for that matter). The C button is not your friend, it is a whore that will betray you. Thats a bit extreme isn't it? Assuming that anyone having a problem is only using the C button? As much as I would love to be a god and time a 6A into every one of her drive attacks, that leaves you open if she crosses up, and I don't have the timing perfect either. Besides, its not as if shes winning off drive alone, hell her damage is so low that spamming drive just gets her killed, most taokaka players are least know their basic combos and throw combos well. Her speed also allows for quick exits if you block her attack strings, and that alternating overhead-mid slash is annoying as shit to be hit by (If you block though thats counter material). Please don't claim that this matchup is easy when you've just admitted you don't know the matchup well. I don't claim to be an expert at this game, but total reliance on 6A and 6B will get you killed here.
Silhouette Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Thats a bit extreme isn't it? Assuming that anyone having a problem is only using the C button? As much as I would love to be a god and time a 6A into every one of her drive attacks, that leaves you open if she crosses up, and I don't have the timing perfect either. Besides, its not as if shes winning off drive alone, hell her damage is so low that spamming drive just gets her killed, most taokaka players are least know their basic combos and throw combos well. Her speed also allows for quick exits if you block her attack strings, and that alternating overhead-mid slash is annoying as shit to be hit by (If you block though thats counter material). Please don't claim that this matchup is easy when you've just admitted you don't know the matchup well. I don't claim to be an expert at this game, but total reliance on 6A and 6B will get you killed here. I said "anyone having serious problems with this match ... is making an attempt to C-spam their way to victory", not "anyone having a problem ... is making an attempt to C-spam their way to victory". That adjective makes a difference, a serious difference. Also, I didn't say "total reliance" on 6A and 6B, as like you said, that will get you killed. I said "don't be afraid to actually acknowledge the existence of 6A and 6B". ...And did I say 6A into her her Drive? I think I said "And if you time it right, I'm relatively certain that 5C can knock her out of some of her bullshit (her Drive, namely, I believe)". I wouldn't suggest trying to 6A her Drive. I'll apply some cautionary advice in the form of telling everyone that doesn't already know that despite her relatively low damage output, your margin of error isn't nearly as big as you think it is, and you can't really afford to dick around/play defensively/stall for magatama for too long. I had the best results backing off and having her run into a 6A/6B/5C/3C > follow-up punishment/combo, but it's not always guaranteed. This video is a litany of do's and don'ts for both players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T89-hadccs Fio's Tao is awesome.
Magatama Junkie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Ok, I play this match up all the time and here's my advice on it. Counters: Timing counters against Taokaka's drives seems hard/unreliable. Taokaka's drives: I've had moderate success with 5c, as well as trying to jump back and up above their drve to swat it with j.c. Also, 2c can be useful as well. Hakumen's C moves: are extremely punishable on whiff or block and shouldn't really be used to fish with. Tao's standing C: I've had almost no success poking her out of this. If she misjudges her spacing, 2b will stuff it, but if she doesn't you'll get counter hit. Hakumen's 6a: is good vs non-drive Tao air attacks, but it prorated really poorly so just do 6a, 5c, 236a, 6c. Adding the super doesn't seem efficient and you really need stars to fight her. Hakumen's 6b: this works extremely well for a round or so, and then Tao stops going low. When I first started playing this match I'd catch taokaka going low but eventually she stopped going low predictably. Hakumen's 2b: get him lowest to the ground, and can be ok stuff dash in stuff. Instant blocking: learning to instant block Tao's guard strings is paramount. When you can ib and drive counter her low block string, she will stop using it as much, which takes a bit out of her mix up. Throw breaking: Tao gets in way too easy for you to give her free throws too. Learn to tech at LEAST all purple throws. Taos damage: anyone who says Tao can't deal damage obviously hasn't played a Tao who can drive loop and taunt combo consistantly. Learn to see her overhead and block/punish it. That's all I got for now. This match up is only hard until you get your basics up, then I think it favors hakumen.
ryokoalways Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Tao's damage is still only 3.5-4k with all her combos (I know because I can do them). Her best combo is still off 6c (which is a quite dangerous frame trap against hakumen). The bigger problem here would be that hakumen basically cannot open with anything that's not a poke. Tao is just a bait waiting to happen.
qwerty Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Anybody having serious problems with this match is trying to face down a Taokaka demigod or is making an attempt to C-spam their way to victory. Which do you think is more likely? My money's on the latter. considering i regularly practice against the only taokaka in the us worth mentioning, i would say your assumption is wrong. tao is a goddamn cunt who won't stop fucking moving. she can semi-bang install runaway with her drive cancel gimmicks, and quite frankly the only reliable way to knock her out of it is 5A, since 6A is too slow and baitable and trying an air to air hotaru against it is just a waste of good meter. the only air to air attempts you should be trying are j.B or air throw, though i generally recommend staying grounded as her air pokes > yours. j.C is actually incredible for air to ground since all of tao's anti airs suck and will eat j.C's all day. and if she guards you can either do a shitty gimmick throw (works sometimes) or mix up into tsubaki or land and 2A -> renka (2A is really fast and renka scores corner knockdown). but seriously, stop using 5C against her, period. it will NEVER hit her because she has plenty of ways to hit you out of 14 frames (especially if she instant blocks shit, because then she has an extra TEN FUCKING FRAMES to get in and punish) and tao does a lot more damage than your average netplay scrub would make you think (and for no meter to boot). i guess the best way to sum up my thoughts on this matchup is that you should really only go for your safe options because she can punish most everything else way too easily. half of the times i lose to taoftw it's because i do stupid shit like go for counters when i shouldn't and do autopilot 6A which she can easily punish. but when i play smart and go for nothing but safe options i basically have it made because she can't really punish moves like 5A and 5B. it sucks to have to use your "weak" options when you could just be all like SEEEEIIIYAAAAAH but it's the only thing that works. that being said, keep in mind that 5B gatlings into renka and that renka can be canceled into zantetsu, so it's not like you lose your damage potential by not pressing C like a maniac.
pulsr Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I'm positive this match is Hakumen just randomly hitting her and killing her, but thanks to her low damage the opportunity happens frequently. Oh and you got 6A and 6B
TyrantShark Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I've found 6B to be damn near useless in this match as her 2A just comes out SO much faster than anything you have. Especially since she seems to be able to gatling damn near every normal she has. 6A produces moderate success until they just figure they'll only head to the air if you're already there. Her 2A is just... stupid. I've had the damn thing hit me when my 2D was in it's 1st frame(Negating it's proposed "instant" availability) This is honestly my second worst match after Arakune. Seems the only way I can win this match is by playing even MORE defensively and waiting for an IB CH opportunity.
ryokoalways Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 what? her 2a only has feet attribute, your 6b should just win flat out because your 6b has feet attribute invincibility. and if she hits you out of 2d it's of course you did it too early. If you think her 2a is bad, wait till you get a taste of noel's 5a. Oh ye gods why the hell is that shit +3.
TyrantShark Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 The problem I've encountered with 6B is that it's actually not feet invincible until his foot is off the ground. If they're in your face mashing 2A for a gatling starter, you'll just eat it every time. Anticipating the 2A and responding with a 6B might get you a whiff and a CH in response. And apparently you didn't read the part about the counter. It's hitting within the frame of activation.
ryokoalways Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 The problem I've encountered with 6B is that it's actually not feet invincible until his foot is off the ground. If they're in your face mashing 2A for a gatling starter, you'll just eat it every time. Anticipating the 2A and responding with a 6B might get you a whiff and a CH in response. And apparently you didn't read the part about the counter. It's hitting within the frame of activation. I think it would be pretty obvious that you would want to avoid using 6b unless you clearly see something coming. It's not fast nor does it have a good hit box. It's purpose is to beat lows that you think are coming and for knocking down Also, things don't happen within a frame. That's not how the game is programed. If you are getting counter hit, you did it too early. That's all there is to it. Use the same example, you can catch tao's 2a spam if you IB one of the hits. Edit: Actually, a better way to clarify this is to just use the frame by frame option in match replay. Things don't happen within a frame.
JackG Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Hakumen's 6B : 4~15 invincible from foot attribute attack Tao's 2A has a 6 frame startup, so if you do 6B at the same time or even up to 2 frames afterwards, you'll get the foot attribute invincibility and get a rockin' counterhit. the main problem is if you are trying to mash it off of Tao's wild landing string while she's pressuring j.C > land > 2A spam. Then you'll usually not have the frame advantage to do so. Long story short: Use 6B wisely, but don't spam it.
Leonil_Requiem Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 does anyone else have a reason as to why tao has no anti air??? jumping C wins... alone
MisoSowee Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 *taokaka IBs j.C into a combo* yar j.C wins...
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