JackG Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Litchi Matchup Statistics Japanese Ranking: [finput][/finput] yet Personally: Punishes: Anti-airing: Zoning: Their game plan: Strategy: Char specific details:
JackG Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 copying over from the previous thread: I keep getting beasted by Litchi's online, especially if I fall into a corner. Anyone have good good strategies to use against them? Any help is appreciated.... Heh, this is a matchup I've been playing alot, as the only guy I know who plays BB plays Litchi as his main. I can't help much unfortuanetly, but I have learned a few things: 1. Don't jump in at round start. You'll eat that vertical lightning staff thing-a-ma-jig. 2. Try to fight Litchi when her staff is either in motion and not a threat, or when she has it in her hands. If its in motion, you will knock it back to her when you land a hit. If its placed on the other hand, its a combination of an escape route, a possible overdrive, and additional attacks. Also, her 623 kicks are only possible shen shes not holding her staff. (those are her best mixup). 3. 623A and 6A are your friend in this match. Litchi has some extremely good overhead attacks, and the upper body invinicbility on these moves rocks. 4. Try approaching from the ground more often than you would against other characters. Litchi has some extremely good anti-airs. Don't get hit by them. 5. Watch out for straight through. (the attack where she wraps the staff aroudn her body). She has three variations, and all of them suck to get hit by, especially the low variant, so its recomended to block low. (or even better, counter!) If anyone else has some tips, I could really use them, I've won two rounds out of probably around thirty now.
zer0kage Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 IB first hit of TsubameGaeshi (623D) is a free CH throw if you dash in quickly. Also there's enough recovery for you to land a 5C CH into Enma bnb combo. Learn to Counter her overheads as theyre quite easy to see (bar 6A). Countering her staff attacks can be really handy especially that it can cause the player to think twice about rushing down. 6C doesn't really work on her very well with staff 6B simply outranges it. It has it's uses but I need to recall when it'll actualy be useful.
JackG Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Generally my punish for her 623d is 5c>623aa combo or 236a>623aa combo depending on how close I am, if I IB it, how fast I can react to it, etc. In terms of countering, you can counter 6a with staff pretty easily I think, but for longer range moves like 6b oftentimes you won't be close enough for the counter to even hit her, so at a certain range it just isn't worth going for. When Litchi does her combo and ends in knockdown into spinny stick super, hold 2d and downback (denoted ]1d[) While you are neutal teching (do not roll, you'll get hit). At best you get a reversal instant counter, and at worst you miss the reversal (which it shouldnt be too bad with the 5 frame buffer window) but since you are holding downback so you'll simply end up blocking anyways.
posey Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Thanks guys, gonna try these out. Couple questions though.... -Is it possible to gauge-counter her staff? -What's the best way to avoid her distortion where the stick comes alive and starts attacking? I usually just try and jump over it but sometimes i'll get hit and fall back into the staff. -Will Haku-men's distortion-counter work against her staff, or is it only against her arms/legs?
JackG Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 - You can counter anything, projectiles included (which her staff counts as) However, whether or not Litchi is HIT by the counter depends on how close she is and which counter you use (they have different ranges) -If you are knocked down and she activates distortion drive, hold down-back ]D[ while you get up for a guaranteed counter. If you are in the air, just hold back and block it, but if you have barrier use that to be safe and avoid being hit with a grounded attack in the meantime. -Again yes, it works against projectiles. However, your opponent has time to jump away from the followup attack if you super counter a projectile. The super counter freezes the opponent if you counter a direct move from them, but not a projectile.
Kumlekar Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Are there any specific moves that I should be looking to punish on guard? I still haven't figured out her block strings.
kulabear Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Are there any specific moves that I should be looking to punish on guard? I still haven't figured out her block strings. Whats been working for me of late is watching for her 6c(with staff) 2 hit. If you can IB the second hit you can usually 3c > 214b > 236a > 6c. I also tend to try and bait her into a corner by waiting for her to come in with either j.b or j.c. when that comes in I 4d > 5c > 236a. every litchi I've fought uses those j moves to counter anything air you do.
Angrynord Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 -Again yes, it works against projectiles. However, your opponent has time to jump away from the followup attack if you super counter a projectile. The super counter freezes the opponent if you counter a direct move from them, but not a projectile. Indeed...and because of that property Litchi can avoid that super more than other characters, as a surprising portion of her normals while holding her staff count as projectiles. The astral counter doesn't seem to work at all against projectiles either, so Litchi can just smack you out of it half the time.
Shining Aquas Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I play Kumlekar all the time, and a couple of random Haku's online. I think I understand why most Haku players hate Litchi preeeeeeeetty bad. Things to watch out for based on what I've seen: Litchi's Itsuu followups (aka the coiled staff to shoot) are incredibly effective against counter attempts (since most Litchi players can easily mix up between mid and low on you). In other words, stop trying to counter this unless you are absolutely sure you know what they are throwing. Generally, it's better to block and then rush in (236A and 623A aren't horrible ideas off of IB, if you happen to be close enough) Tsubame is friggin amazing. Any Litchi player that has the staff has a guaranteed amazing DP. When Litchi doesn't have the staff though, she loses her DP and pretty much her only viable reversal. It may sound impossible, but if you ever get a knockdown in this match, rush that shit down. Litchi is almost defenseless. Keep on the lookout for random three dragons (236A) as that is surprisingly quick, low and easily chains into 236B, 236C, 63214A/B/C, reset staff shenanigans and usually leads to suiciding Haku It may sound kind of stupid, but you are much better off approaching from the air than from the ground in this fight. Litchi has a very nice ground game, and although she appears to have a strong air game it only seems that way at first. Her two best anti-air options are ItsuuA and Tsubame, and ItsuuA is limited in that it has a 35-40 degree shooting angle. It's not impossible to jump over that with a double jump, and when you expect the Tsubame you can punish upon landing (with caution of course) Like most Haku matchups, patience is a key component here, but being overly patient will probably also kill you. Litchi's reversal options are much more limited than a plethora of other characters in this game (outside of Tsubame), so don't be too afraid to frazzle her a bit. That's all I can offer for now, I hope to see some good Haku competition out there Matchup opinion: 6.0 / 4.0 in Litchi's favor (possibly 5.5 / 4.5)
Kumlekar Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I play Kumlekar all the time, and a couple of random Haku's online. I think I understand why most Haku players hate Litchi preeeeeeeetty bad. Things to watch out for based on what I've seen: Litchi's Itsuu followups (aka the coiled staff to shoot) are incredibly effective against counter attempts (since most Litchi players can easily mix up between mid and low on you). In other words, stop trying to counter this unless you are absolutely sure you know what they are throwing. Generally, it's better to block and then rush in (236A and 623A aren't horrible ideas off of IB, if you happen to be close enough) The danger of that attack isn't the level of the hit because it doesn't have an overhead, the problem is predicting the timing since the attack can easily be delayed. But in general yeah, don't counter it unless your pretty sure you know the timing. For approaching, IADing doesn't seem smart (eats Itsuu pretty consistently) unless your trying to get in while her staff is still placed. Whats the safest way to go in? Super jump air dash? Approaching slow with regular jumps?
Shining Aquas Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 For approaching, IADing doesn't seem smart (eats Itsuu pretty consistently) unless your trying to get in while her staff is still placed. Whats the safest way to go in? Super jump air dash? Approaching slow with regular jumps? Both ideas seem fine, just be cautious at all times. Start getting predictable with your jump ins and you'll start eating things worse than ItsuuA and Tsubame. Like intercepted Air throws, which under many circumstances can be comboed into Tsubame into 6C loops into -9000 and Diabeetus. Course, you might be slick enough to break out of the throw, but it puts more distance between you and Litchi, which happens to be the exact opposite of what you're trying to do.
oda777 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 been playing this matchup alot with a friend and it seems to me that j.2c with hakumen really stuffs alot of litchi answers to jump-ins . when ever i want to close the distance between us i almost always stuff any of litchi's attempts to keep hakumen out. is this a viable jump in or has my friend the litchi player just been choosing the wrong answer to j.2c?
JackG Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 I'm pretty sure your friend just isn't choosing the right anti air options. In my experience, j.2C makes for a pretty awful jumpin, and you'd be better off doing j.C in pretty much every scenario. That being said, You all know Litchi has pretty good anti air options in the form of: dragonpunch, autoguard staff move, 2C, and airthrow (largest airthrow range in the game, very comboable.) If Litchi has the stick, really just don't IAD in. Jumping/double jumping in works alright, but I find doing a slow ground approach works best. Back her into a corner and force her to make a choice. She can try to keep you at bay with 6B on the ground, but at worst you'll get poked and be pushed a little further back. As long as you aren't swinging, you aren't eating a counterhit.
oda777 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 thanks for the tip . now that you mention it i have noticed my friend rarely is in a situation where his stick is not planted into the ground. which from what i have read here really seems to make things easier for hakumen in this fight. also thanks for the reminder not to abuse j.2c, bad habit of mine that i need to break.
Kumlekar Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 thanks for the tip . now that you mention it i have noticed my friend rarely is in a situation where his stick is not planted into the ground. which from what i have read here really seems to make things easier for hakumen in this fight. also thanks for the reminder not to abuse j.2c, bad habit of mine that i need to break. If he always has his stick planted hes not really playing the character to its full potential, litchi really needs a mix of both fighting styles for her offense, though on defense shes almost always better off with her staff. As for J.2C, The only time its better than J.C is if you opponent is blocking. Against beginner/intermediate players, they often forget that a jump in j.2C can be followed with another j.2C because of Haku's little bounce backwards thing.
oda777 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 both me and him are relatively knew to the fighting scene so he is still in the lab and doesn't know litchi all that well yet. and i love that on block J.2c trick , i think it goes well if they are blocking low you can go right into j214c to hit them with an overhead if they are not looking for it.
Kumlekar Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Its nice, but don't rely on it too much, a better player will probably ID the second hit and be able to punish you as you land.
Blade Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 This was actually one of my hardest matchups since Tsubame won't let you get close and the pole punishes teching, I did a lot of air guarding as a result. I usually use 5B/2B to punish into Renka, or use D to null the pole when it comes back down from Tsubame, but you'd be lucky to get a throw in.
Kumlekar Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I wish I could just say "No staff for you!" and take it away from her. I guess thats not allowed though.
fogelstrom Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Been playing this matchup alot aswell and I always seem to be on the loosing end. The constant keep-away game with the staff limiting my movement is hard to deal with and Litchi's jump-in's with her staff moves seems almost unbeatable even with 6A. If she's too high I can always use 2C if I anticipate it but that doesn't happen too often. Got the block down pretty well on the high/low mixups and can even punish them with a 6D/2D at times. Still suck desperetly at countering a blocked DP from her and even noticing when she has the staff on knockdown that enables this as a reversal. I would advice anyone to look out for this. 6B seems useless against her since she's rarely in your face with low pokes. With 6A and 6B not beeing viable I'm kinda lost and rely alot on 2B and 2A/5A, I really don't know how to play this matchup at all even after a 100 matches. Anyone know any good vids they could post that would be educational? Though the Litchi I play most likely will not have the same style but still, I need all the help I can get here cause really, these matches are driving me crazy.
pulsr Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 If you aren't able to 6A her jump in's your reactions are too slow or you aren't pressing it early enough. NO ONE has a free in on Hakumen. If she ever loses her staff just run at her and mash jump c on her over and over.. there isn't much she can do about it.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Wow reading here has really helped against my litchi play while my victories are relatively close I can still come out on top. Compared to how I used to lose all the time and BOTH rounds. So patience is truly the key to this matchup. I am still having difficulty in incorperating 6a into my gameplay though since I rarely land it and rely more on either 2c which allows for an aerial 2c while the attack is much slow than 6a. Does anyone have for when both litchi and haku-men have a sliver of life left? Those are the most difficult times since they can continuously fire their staff at me and I have nothing to use against them except form what i see air dash which potentially leads to me being killed in the end.
ryokoalways Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 patience is necessary for any match up if you are haku, even against tager. Please remember that your offense is shit awful.
Mobri Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I'm a casual player, but my main is Litchi and I have found this matchup to be very interesting. The struggle is zoning. Litchi is much faster and has longer range with the staff. Because Hakumen's air dash is his best tool for closing distance it's predictable and easy to punish, which makes it that much harder. Most Litchi players abuse 6C quite a bit, however. (Staff twirls a distance in front of her in midair) This move is easy to punish and, in many cases, easy to bait. 3C is the low attack counterpart and is abused as well since they both lead to most of her BnB's. Her anti-air is weak, however, as long as she has that staff. Bait her into committing to long recovery moves and punish her for it. Baiting DP is essential as well, and since it's our only viable get out of jail free card it may pay off to frame trap at close range. Mix in a delay occassionally and drive counter or punish regularly. These seem to work well against me, anyway, at lower end play. High end becomes much different, I'm sure.
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