Ragna Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[-Ladon-]

but C ID connects to a great loop anyways without an RC, I don't see why you'd ever wanna use D ID as a reversal

[FlyingVe]

Using DID outside of combos is ONLY valuable if you need the extra height or you are sure that it will guard crush them. Trying to use it as a reversal or Yomi isn't gimmicky, it's dumb, especially since you have an amazing DP in C.ID.

[Kain]

Using DID outside of combos is ONLY valuable if you need the extra height or you are sure that it will guard crush them. Trying to use it as a reversal or Yomi isn't gimmicky, it's dumb, especially since you have an amazing DP in C.ID.

This.

If you're using D.ID in the first place to punish shit, then I have to wonder what you're smoking in the first place. If you want an extra 300 points of life that's worthless in the long run, you're doing it wrong.

I hear Dead Spike is good now in CS, what with reduced startup frames and +5 frames on block. The question is, if you're going for a GP break string, why would you ever want to do D.ID without any meter to RC it on block?

In CT though, CH D.ID (1 hit) leads to a situational 3.3k damage (key word: situational). The problem being it's hard to tell if you're at the right distance to CH with it and it's worthless to try because of the missing 5 frames of invul, meaning you'd be lucky to CH with it in the first place.

[PhoenonX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZuIS_oIzw

Just reporting back to show my progress so far, I would say I'm getting better about dropping combos.

[-Ladon-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZuIS_oIzw

Just reporting back to show my progress so far, I would say I'm getting better about dropping combos.

learn proper back throw combo(throw-GH-KA(delay)-5B-6A-SJC-j.C-j.D-JC-j.C-D ID

I know it's online but if you need to use 3C-5D-22C for your rapid if it's too tricky to pull off with lag, 22C oki is probably ragna's best game he can play

although the bang didn't block much I can imagine you need work on your mixup game, take a look at your gatlings and know where you can go from certain parts of your blockstrings

[VR-Raiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZuIS_oIzw

Just reporting back to show my progress so far, I would say I'm getting better about dropping combos.

Needs more 22C combos.

also from 6A anti air, 6A > 5D (DC) > 6A > air combo does more damage than just going straight into an air combo.

If you notice it's CH you can do CH 6A > 5B > 6A > GH > relaunch stuff.

[KayEff]

If you're going to enter using GH, then I suggest using TKGH. It has a quicker startup and if it counters, you can easily combo into 5B>5D(1 hit)>GH...etc. Even then I don't suggest using GH a lot to enter. It's not much, but every advantage helps.

[-Ladon-]

mmm Counter hit TK GH-dash-5B-6A-GH-KA(delay)-5B-6A-air loop is 4.9k

[PhoenonX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbvky7YzOY

Bleh, Here's a nice little Match where I get my virtual ass handed to me by a pretty good Jin. I'm way too defensive in this and I screw up a lot of potential combos.

Oh well, hopefully someone could give me some advice on how to deal with being way too defensive, which isn't good at all for Ragna with his low Guard Libra and all.

[Zero000]

I'm way too defensive in this and I screw up a lot of potential combos.

yep. Ok important parts

0:14- you needed to do a combo right there, you let him get away, then you let him proceed to get out of the corner for free by you backdashing then instant air backdashing

0:23- buffer a DP in that situation, he's pretty intent on rushing you down and he did press a button on your wakeup meaning you could of hit him. and then you once again jump back, you had your ground there when you blocked jin's 3c

:30- there was a opening when he whiffed the crossup/j.b, in that situation, a 2a would be good since it would of beaten his 2a i think. I think if you pressed 5b, you might get counted, or you might hit him

:32- that was your punish right there, 5b right away, but you jump back and air dashed backwards

:40- DP right after your blood kain, jin is screwed because he can't rapid since the ice swords never hit you and it's your only choice since you will die of chip

:50- stop walking backwards and punish him for doing a dp. at that range, 5c 6c GH blah blah blah

:50-54- you kept moving backwards. just press 5b and slowly move in

:58- your DP or 6a opportunity

1:00 no reason to lose your spacing and jump back into the corner, a place where you dont want to be

1:14-1:20- you just let him jump and and jump and jump. 6a/DP his ass. at least press a button when he lands cause he's doing doing legit blockstrings. but then you air backdashed...

1:34 no reason to backdash

1:46- NO, BAD. if you're going to do that, at least bait him into doing a DP on wakeup by dashing into his body

so. Lessons learned, stop backdashing/moving back/instant air backdash. press 5b once in awhile

[VR-Raiden]

Oh well, hopefully someone could give me some advice on how to deal with being way too defensive, which isn't good at all for Ragna with his low Guard Libra and all.

Yeah basically you missed a ton of opportunities to punish him for continuing his pressure (most notably lack of anti airing him), and didn't capitalize on the hits you did land to apply pressure yourself.

[PhoenonX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFBHJOK7HOU

Ok, so I'm trying out a lot new mix-up combos and I've been applying pressure, especially corner pressure a lot more, it seems to be working well for me so far. I do miss a few combo opportunities, but "lol input lag". Anyways, hopefully I'm getting better at a steady pace.

(Oh, and hopefully everyone enjoys the music I added to it, heh.)

[-Ladon-]

Don't BK against haku unless you're doing it in a combo, if there's one character trying to pressure with BK is bad against, it's him, you can eat a counter, take 4000 damage from him and then lose the 3k from BK while he's doing it. if you DO BK and you see their frames are in attack but you can't land anything damaging before it, ID out when you get out of BK, and do an ID combo into a couple of j.D hits still seems like you need to brush up on your gatlings, not everything needs to be canceled into 5D, and sometimes just doing a HF without a followup is a good way to stay in one someone, although with haku it's probably better you just zone him anyways. meaty DS against haku is a viable option and if they counter immediately after you get free damage for guessing it, just watch how they react to a meaty DS. brush up on 6A and ID AAing, seems like a lot of times he was jumping in for free, and one of ragna's big bonuses is that aerial zoning is out of the question if the ragna sees it coming. jump back-air dash is awful, I don't know why people keep doing this(trust me, it's not just you) it's a great way of saying "hey, wait a sec while I air dash, then you can hit me with whatever you want!" other than that you're definitely improving, you might just be not used to the haku matchup though, it took me a good while to know what to look for too

[A.X.I.S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFBHJOK7HOU

Ok, so I'm trying out a lot new mix-up combos and I've been applying pressure, especially corner pressure a lot more, it seems to be working well for me so far. I do miss a few combo opportunities, but "lol input lag". Anyways, hopefully I'm getting better at a steady pace.

(Oh, and hopefully everyone enjoys the music I added to it, heh.)

practice crouch hit confirms, you gave up an easy 3-4k damage because you opted for 2D instead of 5C>6C>whatever combo's.

quit mashing 6A so much, smart people bait it, i don't know that haku-men didnt learn, he should have A. j.D you to let you know he has it or B. quit fucking IADing.

you have better stuff than 5D, especially bad on haku-men, keep him close and you give haku a reason to be threatened.

i think thats it.

[Heart of Winter]

Hey I'm looking for some critique to improve my Ragna. Maybe a critique group in the future would be ideal. Add me, I play on XBL.

[Prototype909]

First and foremost, you need to work on doing more with what hits you get. Very often, you'd connect with a 5B or 5C and then just leave it at that when you could have gotten much more damage off of them. Try to find out what hits in what situations can lead to what combos. Also, refrain from using Hell's Fang like a command dash, and also try not to finish Hell's Fang (Don't do the followup basically) if you whiff/get blocked. You have heat, use it! Rapid cancels are a must, either to prevent punishes or to extend combos for huge damage. Learn some rapid cancel combos ASAP, they're a huge staple in almost any characters game. Blood Kain can either be your saving grace or biggest mistake in the world. Use it to scare people. Finally, Carnage Scissors is pretty mediocre as a super but it can prevent bursting near the end of a match. 22C is one of Ragna's best moves. Abuse it to no end. It scares people, it hurts people, and it sets up for a lot of punishment. Incorporating 3C and 22C into your game is a great way to improve. Something I saw you doing a lot was using 2D. Yes, it hits low but it is exceedingly unsafe even without IB in the picture. 2B and 3C are much better for Ragna's low fix if you're close enough to use them. 3C in particular sets up for 22C on hit and can be jump canceled on block. Finally, use 2C and 5B to fish for most of your hits. 5B is just a great, mostly safe poke all around unless it gets IB'd and 2C has counter hit stun comparable to Hell's Fang (But it's much safer). 5C is only worth doing if you're very confident it will connect, on IB it's extremely punishable.

[Heart of Winter]

First and foremost, you need to work on doing more with what hits you get.

Very often, you'd connect with a 5B or 5C and then just leave it at that when you could have gotten much more damage off of them. Try to find out what hits in what situations can lead to what combos. Also, refrain from using Hell's Fang like a command dash, and also try not to finish Hell's Fang (Don't do the followup basically) if you whiff/get blocked.

egh, I'm so bad with abarring. Though I have a general idea of what is good for some situations.. I just dont know how many combos I should learn.

[VR-Raiden]

egh, I'm so bad with abarring. Though I have a general idea of what is good for some situations.. I just dont know how many combos I should learn.

These are the main combos you should know:

5B (far):

...5C, HF -> 214D

...5C, HF(RC), dash 6D, delay j.D, dash 5B, 3C, 22C

5B (close):

(midscreen)...3C, 22C, 5B, 623D -> immediate 236C -> delay 236C, 22C

(corner/going into corner)...5C, 3C, 5D(DC), 6A, 5D, 22C

6A:

...5D(DC), 6A, air combo

(counter hit)...5B, 6A, GH -> delay 214D, 5B, 6A, air combo

6B:

(hits crouch)...5C, 6C, GH -> delay 214D, 5B, 6A, air combo

(hits crouch, close)...[5B close combos]

2D:

(hits far)...5C, air combo

(max range)...5C, 214A, 5A, 5B, 5D, HF -> 214D

5C:

(counter hit)...6C, GH -> delay 214D, 5B, 6A, air combo

HF:

(counter hit)...[5B close combos]

ID©:

... -> 236C -> 236C, 5B, 6A, air combo

4B+C:

...GH -> delay 214D, 5B, 6A, air combo

Most of these work on most of the cast. Look through the combo thread for more specifics.

[KayEff]

Don't try to learn all of the ones in the Ragna combo thread, most of them you probably won't use. Learn staple ones that you know you'll use. Just experiment a little with the combos, and find ones where you'll have the most benefit.

[FlyingVe]

Alrighty, I figure it's time I throw my hat in the ring, and see what you guys have to say. This is a slightly old match of me and Seon Panther.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvWUnOj4bw

Neither of us were at our best, but if we were there wouldn't be much to critique (and I probably would have lost).

[A.X.I.S.]

that was solid play actually, you didn't do much wrong. -_-

[-Ladon-]

Alrighty, I figure it's time I throw my hat in the ring, and see what you guys have to say. This is a slightly old match of me and Seon Panther.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvWUnOj4bw

Neither of us were at our best, but if we were there wouldn't be much to critique (and I probably would have lost).

DS cancel your 5Ds more, I think you dashed out all of the times it was blocked, which is the worst option imho.

needs less 5b-5c-5d and more 5b-6a-5c-5d(1) combos up close, keep in mind that this is also safe as well as netting more damage on confirm.

canceling your 5D(1) into ds/gh is always a solid option, just don't make it too predictable.

there's rare occasions where you really want to use CS as a damage option(pretty much 5b-5c-CS is one of the only times you want to be landing it so you can combo after) so keep your heat in storage for rapids and possible BK setups post-burst.

abuse 22c a little more, I didn't see a lot of KD opportunities but if you get them make sure you play the oki off it

[KoJazZ]

Someone critique my Ragna...If you've played me before EDIT: Seon Panther said he loves me hahaha

[NoelRin]

Uhh, my first time posting for critique, but eh, can't be afraid to try new things.

Vs Tager

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rIMZUMXVFs

Vs Hakumen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSugga_Z9X0

Much help would be appreciated on what I could work on.

[KayEff]

Against Tager, you shouldn't always try to rush in. This specific Tager wasn't all that much, but if you're going against a better Tager, then you probably won't get a lot in. What I suggest is to poke from a mid-screen distance, and try to chain a combo from there. Also, don't consistently rush him down. A good Tager would probably backdash and then 360 after his wakeup, which isn't good considering Ragna's HP. You have to be a little campy, yes, but it saves you from eating a half bar of damage with one Tager combo.