Halcyone3 Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 yea, i was wondering wtf was going on in training mode, til i realized that noel actually goes HIGHER on 214A and lands late, but learning to buffer the 2B actually did me wonders after i found out. Pretty dumb logic imo, but then again, fuck tager. lol aye, one of the rare occasions where tager's size is actually helping him. But as they said, buffering the 2B is an excellent way to do this. personally, i use dashes, stop at a distance and 5B, which can then go into 3C on counter, and due to his size u shouldnt have much trouble haida looping him or geting at least a BnB going. Air approaches are also a huge plus, ive had good tagers state how annoying they find ppl who approach by air pokes (annoyance is a good indication of an approach that works). Don't rush into a backdash, it will hurt. This is another reason to use 5B as a poke, the range still leaves u outside his range if he backdashes. he's still a rather weird match-up, requires completely different approach than the rest of the cast. Overall, u should avoid starting combos with C or D unless the tager is rly concervative with his sledges and make sure to abuse of his size to the maximum.
xntrikcat Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Anyone know what I should be doing when Tager puts me in his blockstring when I'm magnetized? I sit there blocking/ trying to jump away, and I swear whenever I try to poke him out I eat a CH sledge =/
FunkyP Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 CH sledge is something you shouldn't be hit by, if you feel its coming though 6C will beat sledge and leave them CH in crouch into your Bnb. Also since Tager's moves have such long startup you can instant block pretty much most of them and get a ch 5B , 5A, 6C etc...
Halcyone3 Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 against his block string, IB his sledge, its not too hard to get the timing for that 1 unless u have some lag. If u IB it, u can 5A to counter his own 5A and then u can do whatever. If you find he likes doing a 360 after the sledges, do a backdash instead. With some practice u can IB his sledge with ur eyes closed
Senovit Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I wouldn't really try to counter after an IB'd sledge. The risk seems too much. Find his patterns and then abuse. Most bad Tager's will be doing something like 6C 5D 236A/B into either 360/720 or 5AAA. IB 6C and counter with 3C, or IB 5D and counter with 6C. If he starts doing something different just watch for his habits. IB'ing his 6C and doing 3C to counter his 5D will probably really only work once, so I would just watch for his 5D to IB as his options afterwards are very limited.
dragontamer Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I agree, the safest thing to IB is his 5D. Screw it up, and you're sent flying full screen away from him. On wakeup, Roll backwards (to prevent 623C 720C frame trap on neutral tech) and now Tager has to approach you, putting himself at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, the easiest thing to IB is the Sledge, its just... so easy to IB. Lol. So in practice, I end up IBing the more dangerous Sledge. Ideally, I work to IB the 5D though. Backdashing never is a good idea. Because he can just 720C and hold down C when you're magnetized (usually you are magnetized from the 5D -> 236B sequence), and you'll just get sucked back into the super. Jump back and barrier block if you really want to risk that, although good tagers start doing 623C to predict you.
A.X.I.S. Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I agree, the safest thing to IB is his 5D. Screw it up, and you're sent flying full screen away from him. On wakeup, Roll backwards (to prevent 623C 720C frame trap on neutral tech) and now Tager has to approach you, putting himself at a disadvantage. really? just hold up on neutral tech when you smell a 720, not when the 720 flash happens and you'll never eat it. roll teching tager is dangerous especially when he wants to 2D, i look for this and sometimes sledge/2D to close the gap and put you right back in the same spot, IBing Bsledge is good because you have time to jump out/DD/poke to beat his options, IBing the 5D is not bad either, i always thought if you IB you can use a drive attack to punish sledge, then again i don't know much about noels drives to have that call, IMO just IB the big slow stuff and your troubles are solved. Unfortunately, the easiest thing to IB is the Sledge, its just... so easy to IB. Lol. So in practice, I end up IBing the more dangerous Sledge. Ideally, I work to IB the 5D though. Backdashing never is a good idea. Because he can just 720C and hold down C when you're magnetized (usually you are magnetized from the 5D -> 236B sequence), and you'll just get sucked back into the super. Jump back and barrier block if you really want to risk that, although good tagers start doing 623C to predict you. the second paragraph is pure win.
oneupdoe Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Not all Tager players are equal. I beat 2 crap ones this weekend, but on avg my Tager record is like 5-78 I can't seem to beat a decent one to save my life.
Halcyone3 Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 i dunno, after i tech thei 360/720 after a sledge, they stop doing that and try to 5A spam after it so i can counter safely. Maybe i was just fighting scrubby tagers, ill keep the tips in mind
dragontamer Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 i dunno, after i tech thei 360/720 after a sledge, they stop doing that and try to 5A spam after it so i can counter safely. Maybe i was just fighting scrubby tagers, ill keep the tips in mind If you 5A them and they 360A or 720C you, you cannot tech it because its a throw counter. The safest thing to do is to jump back after a sledge, but that is beaten by a 623C. 360A breaks 5A spam in general, so you have to be careful.
Heroic_Legacy Posted December 7, 2009 Posted December 7, 2009 Instead of...jumping back barrier, how about j.D? It'll beat Collider and 720s cant hit you while you spin in the air shooting us in the face.
dragontamer Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I know you have more experience than me in this matchup Heroic, but does that work in practice? A quick frame check shows that j.D has 17 startup frames and jumping for Noel is 4 frames... the attack comes out on frame 22. Atomic Collider comes out on frame 20. Instant Blocking a sledge puts Noel at +2 frames, so it looks like they tie in theory anyway. Just haven't used that before, thats all. Plus, if you manage to block it, Noel is completely screwed on landing. Seems too risky to me. I'd personally try a rising j.C first (which hits Tager, leaves him in blockstun for a good while, and if he backdashes, you still have enough time to try another air attack before you land because j.C has decent recovery time. It probably beats Collider as well)
DC Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 j.D will likely hit 720's invincibility and leave us helplessly falling towards your glowing hand of death. I usually just IB and jump back and hope for the best. Every Tager is different, it seems. Anyways I play this matchup terribly... I camp the fuck out of Tager with Optic Barrel. Yes I'm 100% sure this sounds dumb on paper but it seems I'm more likely to get fucked by approaching him than I am by letting him approach me. All of his aerials are insanely easy to 6c anti air and it seems to be safe on block. Every once and a while I'll mix things up and rush him down but not too often. Every once and a while I'll fight a Tager who knows some corner Collider shenanigans, but it's a free air super as long as you don't start it right next to where his palm is. (lol at getting grabbed out of air super) I'll post a video or something sometime but let me stress that I don't claim to be some great Noel player or anything, I just like this matchup and it seems like my strategy works pretty consistently for the most part. Btw if you're magnetized and he does a random 720, you can fly like halfway across the screen with 2d right into his face, lol.
A.X.I.S. Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I know you have more experience than me in this matchup Heroic, but does that work in practice? A quick frame check shows that j.D has 17 startup frames and jumping for Noel is 4 frames... the attack comes out on frame 22. Atomic Collider comes out on frame 20. Instant Blocking a sledge puts Noel at +2 frames, so it looks like they tie in theory anyway. um j.D is pretty bad on tager, it gives us free hits on you before you land, depending on where your at i managed to get 6C>5k damage, j.2C>5-6k damage, 360B/720C and a air throw into 4k+ damage, so no to J.Ding a tager, better off with j.b, colider is good but it really depends on that J.D... j.D will likely hit 720's invincibility and leave us helplessly falling towards your glowing hand of death. I usually just IB and jump back and hope for the best. Every Tager is different, it seems. yeah i guess, you have the slow silly tager. flying tagers. tech trap horny tager. beastly tager. Anyways I play this matchup terribly... I camp the fuck out of Tager with Optic Barrel. Yes I'm 100% sure this sounds dumb on paper but it seems I'm more likely to get fucked by approaching him than I am by letting him approach me. All of his aerials are insanely easy to 6c anti air and it seems to be safe on block. Every once and a while I'll mix things up and rush him down but not too often. actually this match up is mad silly, optic barrel on block gives you free rushdown, jumpng it gives you a easy combo, man noel hurts. Every once and a while I'll fight a Tager who knows some corner Collider shenanigans, but it's a free air super as long as you don't start it right next to where his palm is. (lol at getting grabbed out of air super) isn't that risky as hell? your better off not teching, so the combo counter just increase, the damage is crap, and gets you away from the corner and leaves tager there...correct me if i'm wrong but from there tager is in a pretty bad spot if he's cornered by noel which can do 4k+ damage to him in a corner easily. I'll post a video or something sometime but let me stress that I don't claim to be some great Noel player or anything, I just like this matchup and it seems like my strategy works pretty consistently for the most part. Btw if you're magnetized and he does a random 720, you can fly like halfway across the screen with 2d right into his face, lol. i find MTW a better option during noels drives because she can't do anything about it, especially magnetized, i guess i'm saying, tager with meter+noel in drive=free MTW.
hobbes713 Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I think that j.D is good if used sparingly. If you overuse and Tager blocks it then your pretty screwed when you land since he'll just sledge right through your next D move. I win against Tager about 50/50 of the time depending on how good they are. You should alternate between rushing them down from the air using j.A and rushing them from the ground with 5A or 5B. I notice that many Tagers will attempt to backdash as you approach then grab you but if you mash 5A then you will hit them out of their backdash (most of the time). A general rule is to never start with a D move as Tager can just sledge right through it.
excelence Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 The Tager i'll go against, will 360 my 5a almost everytime i try to melee him on pointblank range, don't 5a him. and about j.D... if by chance She can land safely, can't Spring Raid Destroy tager moves other than 360a/720/MTW ?
hobbes713 Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 5A works if he is backdashing. Tager can still grab when you run towards him with his 360a but he has to buffer it in order for it to work. Therefore you can approach him safely if you time it when you know he can't be buffering (if he isn't jumping around or after he techs). Spring Raid can probably destroy any move Tager has if you land j.D safely due to the invincibility frames but if he blocks that as well then your in trouble (unless you Rapid Cancel it).
DC Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Hey look, it's hobbes... my fellow Noel enthusiast. :p And I noticed that the second hit of 6c will hit a backdashing Tager if the first hit misses. Idk if they're trying to 360 but it's almost always a CH.
Senovit Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 360 does not need to be buffered into anything, it can be done standing and from a neutral position. Running up to 5A everytime is just asking to get 360'd.
hobbes713 Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Hey DCXII. I didn't notice that you were the same person as the one I see online. If you mix up the way you approach you can avoid getting 360 grabbed. Just don't approach every single time with 5A. As long as you mix up how you rush your opponent then it works fine.
dragontamer Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 j.D will likely hit 720's invincibility and leave us helplessly falling towards your glowing hand of death. I usually just IB and jump back and hope for the best. Every Tager is different, it seems. Literally impossible. j.D is meatier than 720C's entire invincibility. Not that j.D is a good option (it seems like yall agree with me on that one... doesn't seem to be a good option vs Tager) but need to give credit where credit is due. j.D is meaty as hell. and about j.D... if by chance She can land safely, can't Spring Raid Destroy tager moves other than 360a/720/MTW ? Don't forget the most important one: Block. If Tager blocks that Spring Raid you're dead. 360 does not need to be buffered into anything, it can be done standing and from a neutral position. Running up to 5A everytime is just asking to get 360'd. On the other hand, running up just outside of 5B range and using 5B is a great approach in my experience. Safe on block, and you're outside of 360A/720C range and both of you will whiff on each other in the worst case. In the best case, 5B counter-hit leads to 3C for massive damage. Just watch that magnetism, definitely not safe when you're magnetized.
Nitrocidal Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 All I know is online, I hate this matchup almost as much as Arakune vs Noel. Lag makes tager scary. But this isn't about lag tactics. I saw in another thread that you can 5D to counter sledge on reaction. Is tehre any actual value to this? It works. You see the sledge, wait a bit and 5D and it goes right through and hits him as he finishes projectiel invuln. 5D 6C 214A combo from there.
Mizzet Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Yes, i 5d through sledge on reaction all the time. Random sledges = death for tager. The invincibility on 5d is long enough that it's easy to time as well.
Nitrocidal Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Tagers sledge is projectile immune from frames... Hell if I know, I don't have the frame data.I could prolly dig it up but if you're like me seeing frames won't help you too much. You want to time it so you use your invincibility to go through his movement / attack portion, but actually hit afterwards when he's vulnerable to projectiles.
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