Senovit Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=403040&postcount=27
cerebralsoldier Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Don't mess up your combos... Tagers are basically turning their sticks while you combo like a jack-in-a-box, one mistake and you eat shit :/ lmao, that is a perfect way to sum up this matchup. I play my friend's Tager all the time and when I wiff or screw somethingup I can hear that damn stick turning turning turning towards my doom
Patchi Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 if I get in on a tager than i just stick on him and mix that shit up with jump cancels and high low shit that is safe until i hit confirm into a combo and start it all up again without letting him Hulk the shit out of me if possible. 5a is your friend in this match up as is in a lot of match ups also i guess.
CABC Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 In the DB Aikouka videos (and some others) they do some weird 3C 22BC 22C loop kinda similar to the Rachel combo. You can see what I mean here, it's the first combo Noel does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_4SJjV24_E And with other people, they seem to do [3C, (22C, 6C) x5, 22C, j.C, j.236C] or [3C, (22C, 6C) x6, j.C, j.236C]. I'm wondering why people do these 2 combos, or more I guess why they stop there, when you can actually pull off 7 [22C, 6C]'s in the same combo and do 7k+ damage without a grab like DB used. Is it just because it's harder to do? (I'll admit, I can't do it perfectly yet xD against real opponents I normally just do 5 loops) EDIT: Correction, it does 6805 damage. Not quite 7k xD
Bommlinger Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 Okay, what do do against tagers loop where he pulls you in after a combo, throws you to the other side and keeps comboing and pullung youback in? I'm sic of that stuff. I've managed to hit him out with a J.C or J.D a few times while beeing pulled in, but the timing is rather iffy. Is there anything else I can do against that cheap loop? Or can I get a few pointers on the timing on hitting him out of that stuff?
Wizard Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 It's not fair. D: We all screw up, but Tagers and Hakumens a like get four-five chances against Noels we get like two maybe three. And sometimes they don't even have to combo, their grab alone will do some damage. We all should know it, but if not here's three words of advice. Never air tech, use drive sparingly and use hit and run tactics. Simple as that. Yeah the guy doesn't have dash, but he can get in on you as easily as anyone else. Not saying the saying his dash isn't a hindrance, it is against ranged players. But against someone like Noel in my opinion hardly. However that is one thing we have to work with, if not the only thing.
Senovit Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 If you tech immediately (right when he wants you to) you can j.D him. You won't be able to combo unless he is in a corner though, since you're getting pulled to the other side. If he's midscreen, you can tech late right before you hit the ground and you'll get pulled right to his side for a free combo. Careful with this though, as I've been baited to tech late before and gotten my face 720'd.
Senovit Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Okay, going to post again after getting a bit more experience in this matchup. This is all taken from a pretty long series of games with a friend of mine that played Tager. Generally against Tager's online I stick with j.AAAAA as a way to get in and stay away from drives, but against this particular Tager I was getting crushed like none other until I started varying my playstyle. Keep in mind this is against ONE player that I played against a lot, so much of this may simply just be a counter to his habits, but hopefully other Tagers have the same habits he does :v. If you get stuck in a Tager blockstring, here are some of your options: If you see him prepping 5D and you're on the ground, instant block it and immediately 6C. If he cancels into 236A, you'll still be stuck in blockstun and will block the A sledge. If he cancels into 236B, your 6C will counter him and you can immediately do 5D 6C 214A etc. If you block the A sledge, he is going to either go for a throw or mash 5A. At this point I will usually jump. If he's a little late you'll block the 5A, else you'll eat a few hits. I'm not entirely sure whether him landing 5A hits on you can let him combo into anything, but so far that I've seen it doesn't really lead into anything big for him. If he does 6C and you instant block it, watch his animation. He will usually go into 5D. If you instant block the 6C, your 3C will slide right under the 5D for a free combo. Do not try to 6C it, it will trade and he'll recover while you're magnetized and bouncing back towards him (not a good position!). Unfortunately, he can also cancel 6C into a sledge and eat your 3C for free. I haven't IB'D 6C enough times to know whether you can switch between 6C and 3C on reaction to his sledge startup animation or not. I also assume that he can cancel straight into a throw which would beat both of those options, but the particular Tager I was playing never did. I pretty much always air tech his tech trap nowadays. Even though I said in the above post that teching late nets you a free combo, that can get baited into a throw and doesn't quite seem as worth it to me anymore. If you don't tech, he can ball you into some more hefty damage. If you tech early and j.D, you can follow up with spring raid if he happens to be in the corner or recover while he's stunned and return the game to neutral. Be cautious of doing this too much though... since I pretty much teched into j.D every single time, he once did 5D -> 623C (whiff) -> jump airthrow. Needless to say I found this hilarious, but yeah. I wouldn't expect someone to do that unless they've been playing you a long time. Although I generally stay away from the D button against Tager, I've noticed that a lot of Tagers go for sledge/360A almost anytime they see the glow. You can take this to your advantage by abusing the fuck out of Spring Raid. Now, I know Spring Raid is really dangerous, and having it blocked will have you eating a full combo or worse, a 720, but it seems to work well for keeping Tagers on their toes. Since Tager is gigantic, any Spring Raid hit will pretty much lead you to a full bnb drive combo. My general strategy is to do any sort of ground string into 2D. From 2D you can go for 214A, 236D or 28D. I advise 236D only if you expect him to block. You can get thrown out of 236D, and I'm a little unsure of this but I believe that 236D can be punished with the magnet ball if you're close enough. Both 214A and 28D will lead into your bnb drive combo, it's really up to you which one you choose to use. 28D will of course be safer if you think he's going to try and poke after the 2D, and 214A will be a better choice if you think he is going to try and throw instead. Of course, if he's patient you're kind of boned. So eh. My general strategy in this matchup is to get in close, throws be damned. Save all meter for rapid canceling spring raid, and build it up with silly strings that end in bloom trigger. I usually approach aerially. If I land an air hit I'll confirm into j.D 28D into the bnb drive chain. If he doesn't have magnet bar I'll spam a few optic barrels to try and bait a sledge then run in with either a 6A or a 6C. I also jump on pretty much everything since I'm afraid of the throw. I'll jump after he sledges and eat a few 5A's, I'll jump on my wakeup, I'll jump on his wakeup, etc. Also keep in mind that if he magna tech wheels and catches you while you're in the air, the last hit will be a crossup if you get pushed to the other side. There's been a few times when I've been hit anyway, so it's possible that at certain ranges you don't actually get crossed up, or maybe it was lag messing up my blocking. Watch for Rapid Cancels, otherwise block the last hit high then do a combo of your choice :v. A lot of videos of this matchup show Noel doing 5B 5C 2C 5B 5C 2C etc. all day, but you can get 360'd in the face during 2C -> 5B, and probably other parts of the string too. I'm also not really a fan of 5AAAA as to be perfectly honest I never use it on anyone else so I'm too shocked when it actually hits to do anything but a gatling combo instead of going straight into 6A. I'm sure it's a good option though. I hope you enjoyed this wall of text that might only be viable against the Tager player I was against anyway.
Kronikhall Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 I have no idea if I'm fighting Tager correctly. Basically all I do is dash and 6C->2C then dash away or use my DD if it's up. I rarely ever drive against him. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here.
Danny Schme Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Well i'd read the post above your own and also take a peak at the videos found here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=403040&postcount=27 The same person that searched out this single post I just linked you to is the one who posted the advice above you so props to him.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 I have been playing this tager, his psn is LostSoul526 and he is AMAZING. From what i can tell, 5B just straight up buttfucks tager. Beats everything, out ranges everything, its just amazing. I can consistently win with pressure though, maybe thats just me because i loooove me some pressure game. i go really heavy with the mixups, you need to just learn what beats what. Its pretty much a giant mindgame, baiting throws, mtw, etc and punishing. The only time i cant win is when im not putting him under constant pressure. I should upload some matches with him, he is easily the best tager i have ever played. be tricky with your techs. I personally dont use 3C much unless its hitconfirm or im feeling balls and baiting jabs to slide under and combo.
Kronikhall Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 I have been playing this tager, his psn is LostSoul526 and he is AMAZING. From what i can tell, 5B just straight up buttfucks tager. Beats everything, out ranges everything, its just amazing. I can consistently win with pressure though, maybe thats just me because i loooove me some pressure game. i go really heavy with the mixups, you need to just learn what beats what. Its pretty much a giant mindgame, baiting throws, mtw, etc and punishing. The only time i cant win is when im not putting him under constant pressure. I should upload some matches with him, he is easily the best tager i have ever played. be tricky with your techs. I personally dont use 3C much unless its hitconfirm or im feeling balls and baiting jabs to slide under and combo. Yeah, I stopped using 3C after I realized it was a free one way trip into his Gigantic Tager. I was trying to practice throw breaks and I can only seem to tech purple throws when I see them; green ones get me every time. I gotta try that 5B anti-Tager poke sometime though. And to the person who posted the link and stuff above me, thanks, I'll take a look at it sometime soon. Edit: Ah! It's DB Aikouka. He's (I think it's a he) the reason why I started playing Noel.
Senovit Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Lol. LostSoul is the Tager I play with all the time and is the one I was referring to in my post above.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Lol. LostSoul is the Tager I play with all the time and is the one I was referring to in my post above. He is orgasmic.
Runis Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Edit: Ah! It's DB Aikouka. He's (I think it's a he) the reason why I started playing Noel. Ditto
Wutai_Shinobi Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 After a connected 5B, what do you do? I know you can 5B, 5C but don't continue with 3C unless you want to get thrown hehe. only thing I can think of 5B and run all day long and hope he never gets a hit @_@
excelence Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 on standing Tager 5b>5c>j.a>j.b>j.c>j.d... whatever u can think off >_>
Kronikhall Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 After a connected 5B, what do you do? I know you can 5B, 5C but don't continue with 3C unless you want to get thrown hehe. only thing I can think of 5B and run all day long and hope he never gets a hit @_@ If 5B is a CH, you can go immediately into 3C without being thrown. Then you can start the 6C BnB or the 22C loop.
Kronikhall Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 isn't it if 5C is CH? not 5B? Both work. 5C is a bit of a longer window, but I can't seem to follow up 5C CHs because I rarely use the move. I just can't think of a situation where its useful, especially versus Tager.
Senovit Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 If you land a 5C CH it's better to go into 5D 6C etc. unless you really need that knockdown. I don't believe you can follow a 5B CH with 5D, but I'm not sure.
Kronikhall Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 If you land a 5C CH it's better to go into 5D 6C etc. unless you really need that knockdown. I don't believe you can follow a 5B CH with 5D, but I'm not sure. I follow up the 5B CHs with 3C->22C->BnB.
Senovit Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Er, yeah. His post seemed to suggest that 3C etc. should follow a 5C CH, so I was just pointing out that a 5D instead of a 3C will deal more damage.
Kronikhall Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Er, yeah. His post seemed to suggest that 3C etc. should follow a 5C CH, so I was just pointing out that a 5D instead of a 3C will deal more damage. What is the BnB for the 5C CH combo? I think that's the only move I don't know how to combo off of. Probably because I neglect to use 5C so much.
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