[CT+CS1] Noel vs. Tager

[dragontamer]

Even then looking at frame data you only have one gatling chain I can't IB 720 and that's ...none. Right. Noel got the nerf bat. Anyway, as a note to you. Countless times I've normal blocked Noel's j.C and managed to 720 before her next jab came out. I've tested it and yes even if you jump in low and mash jab 720 will still beat the jab so really you can't even pressure Tager. There is no mixup on Tager that matters because really your only overhead is 6B. 6B is easily blockable on reaction.

I do believe 5A 5A 5A is still solid actually... but yeah... Oh, and I think 6A -> 5C is a solid string even on IB. Lol. I totally see those all the time in high level Noel play. </sarcasm>

BTW: no need to IB 720 when you can just IB Sledge after 5B. :-(

Tager in the corner and Noel threatening, yeah the damage is there but your buttons don't scare. Tager easily can just instant block sledge/360A through 90% of your buttons if you push them in order and even if you think us being in the corner is a giant advantage (Your best BnB and the multiple ways to get into it) We can just tech all your grabs and continuously block since we aren't losing anything. You aren't going to guard break us anytime (I've yet to allow a j.4D mixup go by without a 360A) so why not solidify our defense and wait for you to crack and do something silly like a random button that we can punish? Drive state may be good but sledge beats everything but 623D 6B and 6D. And for 6B and 6D the holes are large enough to 360A through. 623D is downright yomi to pull off in a string and catch Tager doing something. You should be glad this isn't CT though. If you hit with Spring Raid in CT we could burst through it and your invincibility has you in recovery while we pull a 720.

Almost true. Sledge loses to d.5B as well. Under the right setups... d.6C -> d.6B needs to be instant-blocked if Tager wants to punish with 360A or 720C actually, but d.6C is very easy to instant block and you can probably react to it with a Sledge or something at higher levels of play. Under those ideal conditions, d.6C -> d.6A will counter-hit 360A as well.

d.5B is fast as hell however, so thats what I use to punish sledge happy tagers. d.5B -> d.6A -> d.6C -> combo is easy, but you need 3 chain revolvers left.

As a note. IB 4D in this match does help Noel a bit...but why does Tager need to push buttons anyway outside of stuffing Noel's things?

Pretty much this. This is a defensive game for both Noel and Tager, but Tager has the advantage here. 360A and Sledge go through all of Noel's stuff, so Noel has to take a higher risk to do mediocre damage than Tager.

[bmore303]

Lol definitely wasn't saying RELY on hearing them mash out 360, if anything a Noel player needs to get in the habit of knowing which bits of her fail block string she needs to jump-cancel out of ...or risk eating a fat 360/720 or a sledge of all things. And hope to hell you don't get caught in the magical land of predictability and get an atomic collider thrown in your face when you try. Was just stating a large experience I had with offline Tager players, but not all.

I honestly don't fish for Noel fatal counters in this matchup, it just doesn't work in most situations. The damage for the coming combo, sure 5k..wheee...but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a less punishable approach for 3.6-4k. J.4D is a CH waiting to happen in most situations and I typically am not in the right range to effectively land and USE a 4d fatal hit without an RC I want to waste. If anything I'll just regain distance with bloom trigger if I feel spring raid is too far out.

And I fully agree with Heroic on the matter of the corner, Noel ISN'T threatening to a cornered Tager at ALL. Tager IBs all predictable Noel approaches because we aren't getting much closer than 5B,C,D range, and try something else and you're poor Noel is probably getting wrecked. You can try to drive chain them, but why even fish for the IB Sledge if it's not needed? Unless we go into D.a high speed then throw out a D.6b for a mixup you can still see it and block accordingly. At worst we'll just bloom trigger the end to regain some distance and you still have all your guard libra (unless d.6c was thrown out) It's a game of cat and dog, where you either have to let them get reckless or bait the hell out of them for both parties. More so Noel since Tager players should know most of our crap isn't safe.

J.c into 360, yeah happened to me once, never J.c'd against a Tager out of combo again. Yeah obviously jumping in and jabbing A while standing in CS, not the best idea against Tager.

Most desperate tactic against a Tager, allow magnetism. Land a 5D/5C CH during a dash combined with a Tager Mag attack, either get a weird trade or you win a combo because they got excited =| . Orrrrrrrrr, you get trolled hard and you lose. This is possibly the dumbest thing I've tried in this matchup that works out of randomness or some would say "mind games" ._. , I say luck.

[Heroic_Legacy]

The only magnetic normal Tager should do from footsies range in this matchup is 4D anyway and it barely pulls you. So if you think 5D is coming from Tager and you can get through it with 5D or whatever, eat a nice chunky counterhit from 4D or you drive through my recovery and I 360A you out of your move.

Dragon, I forgot to mention the whole drive state thing.

All your enders are unsafe. So while we can attempt to just IB 360/Sledge through a followup, we could always wait and punish you in recovery. (Isn't the reload recovery thing like...15 20 frames?) Of course Spring Raid and Bloom Trigger are devoid of this problem except for the fact they are both highly unsafe.

Assault through is nice to spring once in a while. I've been crossed up and 360A'd the wrong way before so the move is useful to beat out IB stuff. But if I wait it's 360A'd anyway because you did something stupid.

And KingofBums would testify to the fact d.6C is fucking useless. Sledge it all day.

[dragontamer]

Dragon, I forgot to mention the whole drive state thing.

All your enders are unsafe. So while we can attempt to just IB 360/Sledge through a followup, we could always wait and punish you in recovery. (Isn't the reload recovery thing like...15 20 frames?) Of course Spring Raid and Bloom Trigger are devoid of this problem except for the fact they are both highly unsafe.

Trust me, I know. :-(

[Heroic_Legacy]

Is this like the largest Matchup thread or what?

[Chiizu]

Considering this is a "small girl vs serial rapist" like versus, it makes a lot of ink flow so chances are it is.

[bmore303]

Lol I wouldn't doubt it. Most matchups are play and learn..for some reason people don't ever get the Tager matchup. /shrug

[jags861]

theres one tager setup i can never seem to avoid. he lands a counterhit 5d that wall bounces you...he does a super jump 5d then 720 on land. how can you avoid it--no matter how to tech/just lay there, you always get grabbed. Is burst the only way out?

[A.X.I.S.]

you mean when tager does hj.C>j.D on a magnetized fallen opponent?

the only way out of that setup is to guess right.

if you neutral tech you get grabbed or 2B'D which prevents a jump out.

if you roll you get 360/720'D.

and if you don't tech you get OTG by 2B.

works on everyone and wake up super would probably work.

FYI if you hold up during neutral tech you avoid the grab.

[FlyingVe]

Also, if your are just laying on the ground and Tager lets off a 720, you should be able to roll through him, though holding up during neutral tech, or doing a reversal (632146D) would probably be the best option.

[Heroic_Legacy]

I'd actually rather you just ate the 720. It doesn't hurt that much. :3

In all seriousness, hold up after most neutral techs. It'll get you out of 360s. But not out of ACs.

NEW THINGS

...Sorry Noel. I can't think of anything for you.

[dragontamer]

you mean when tager does hj.C>j.D on a magnetized fallen opponent?

the only way out of that setup is to guess right.

if you neutral tech you get grabbed or 2B'D which prevents a jump out.

If you get grabbed, you didn't jump out with the right timing. Holding up will prevent meaty grabs.

[A.X.I.S.]

thats the beauty of 2B.

noel doesn't have a meterless answer to it.

[Heroic_Legacy]

thats the beauty of 2B.

noel doesn't have a meterless answer to it.

2D beats it clean. Sorry Axis.

[A.X.I.S.]

2D beats it clean. Sorry Axis.

yeah your right but look at the bright side we still have lol sledge.

[Heroic_Legacy]

So you want to do meaty sledge on wakeup?

Stay free.

[A.X.I.S.]

only if I have 50 heat and she doesn't have 50 heat.

I hate commitment.

besides this match up just comes down to her trying to get around 4D.

edit: meaty 6A works for me too.

[dragontamer]

only if I have 50 heat and she doesn't have 50 heat.

I hate commitment.

besides this match up just comes down to her trying to get around 4D.

edit: meaty 6A works for me too.

Erm... I don't think I tech anymore vs Tager. OTG2B doesn't do much damage, and most of the time the opponent does Gadget Finger anyway.

If I see the Sledge coming, I'll neutral tech on reaction, and then punish your whiff. You won't be able to rapid on whiffed sledges... On the other hand, sledging after I wakeup, expecting a wakeup 2D... it seems like that would simply be beaten by reacting to sledge and poking you out of it.

[A.X.I.S.]

actually I wait for the neutral and start the B sledge.

and OTG 2B can go up to 3-3.5 depending on spark or mag.

in other words noel is pretty bummed on wake up.

if I throw out the B sledge meaty and you dare push that D button than counter will ring out loudly and you would just go "oh shit".

the point of the meaty is to throw it out when you tech, not assume "he's gonna neutral time to not wake up."

thats all I'm saying...and if you play me I will make you tech because I am a troll.

[Chiizu]

This is going nowhere. All you can do with Noel is just not to let tager in, period. Pull it off, and you won't have to say "hello mr blue sky, going so soon? why am i in front of mr hard concrete? *splash* ouch".

Easier said than done, i know, but really, what else can you do? I can almost hear scrubbs spinning that stick to make you eat some concrete.

[bmore303]

How often do you see Noel wake-up 2D outside of Nas playing ffs >_> . It's usually not a win situation in CS at all.

[Heroic_Legacy]

I haven't seen a scary Noel in America yet at all.

I've seen Random, I've seen Crazy, I've seen Decent, but nothing that makes me go 'Hey, I really don't wanna fight that dude'. Usually whenever I watch a Noel it's like 'Free money'

[FlyingVe]

The Random ones can really piss you off though...

Also, 5D is fairly good at beating Sledge, so I don't recommend just tossing it out there too often. Heat won't help because invulnerability makes you wiff, and you can't rapid a wiff.

[Chiizu]

I need a pointer.

Is it possible at all to get a CH with 5D on a sledge? I mean, i get through it pretty easily but somehow i NEVER get a CH.

Now i just 5b CH it and haida loop tagers instead.

[2 GB Combo]

Yes it is very possible to get 5D CH on B sledge, if you are not getting the CH, then you are pressing it too late. The general rule is that you press 5D the moment where he starts to actually move forward with the attack.