Shinsua Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 This thread will be devoted to taking down the ever massive Iron Tager, a man we. . .know?. . .Do we know him? Who is that? . . .I wonder what he tastes like. . .
dj asakura Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Ok, I know this isn't advice or anything, but the title of this matchup thread killed me. Good job. Wow.
Dime_x Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 what do you guys do to punish a 236 b spamming tager??? so far all i've got is 3c (HELLA unsafe) wait just inside of its range and hit it with a 5b on reaction when it gets close (ridiculously redundant) or 9a or b or c... problem is that all of these get randomly beaten by the sledge depending on distance/ timing. my other problem with tagers sledge is that it goes through all of aras D moves except for 5D... so i cant even pressure him with 2D very well. 236 b also kills all of my clouds... plus the damn thing can AA my iad's rather well also... and if the tager player holds the 236 B it seems like he has frame advantage for his mixup on block which is 5A xn, 360 or 5d. seriously, 236 B pisses me off. what am i doing wrong? also whats the best way to fight a tager that has you magnetized that spams 5D and 236 B? i cant even jump or dash away from those moves reliably once i'm magnetized. -dime
Shinsua Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Honestly, it takes practice, but its in those situations where my fighting style is best suited ' '; My advice to you would be to start to strike him head-on with quicker moves that interrupt the major function of most of this attacks. . . But if hes spamming sledge that can be very tricky. . . actually. . .Ive got a question of my own =/ The Spider Cannon Special, dont we completely stop motion while using this? Or are we effected by magnetism still?
Abstract Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Uhh...well first things first, not getting magnetized is up there on your list of things you want to avoid. But what you should be doing is using your really mobility to zone the crap out of him. Once you get a cloud out against Tager, he's in BIIIIIIIIIIG trouble. Even if he can sledge it, bait him into sledging clouds then jD and start the madness. If he's AAing you with Atomic Collider, punish him with teleport shenanigans. Uhhh...and don't use 3C. Not against Tager anyways. If you're hitting with 5B on reaction you should go into 6C loops.
CopperDabbit Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 The best strategy against tager is to hit him with projectiles and physical attacks at the same time. He has no answer for this and once you get a Dbug on the field he's screwed. Also, his Anti-air options are very limited (atomic collider isn't as good at this as one might think). So do dive-canceled j.Bs a lot, they work well. Tagers 2C will beat/trade with the jB in his favor, but he's relying on that too heavily just switch up with jD. And Ta-Dah! You've won. Also... just don't attack with 3c. That move sucks.
Shinsua Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks Copper ' '; For moving and explaining xP
Dime_x Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 thx for the help guys! i'm going to be doing everything you guys said. also i fucked up on the 3c... i was using 2c (still hella unsafe) i actually do use 3c but not against tager. it can be jump canceled on hit versus nu into a mark into 6c loops so i actually like that move alot (just not in this matchup) thx again. -dime
tofu_bones Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Because of tager's size it's not uncommon to cancel all three j.2a/b/c onto his giant ass in a row for easy damage. Other than that, as previously stated, once you get a curse on him there's really no real reason he should ever get close to you again. Bees and bell bugs friends, he hates them.
App1e5auce Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 What I always try to do is get him into that corner trap. Alot of times, when I get a tager cursed, he starts playing very defensive. Spam bugs, throw up a bell bug, get another cloud out, and spam some more bugs. A few times I've gotten tager players to just keep backing up until they hit the corner. Tager eats arakune's corner trap all day long. He's way too big and slow to do anything about it. I can remember 2 different tagers I've played that I beat both rounds with the corner trap. Im sure they were cursing me up and down. hahaha
Magnet Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 A few things Ive observed from casuals...one of them being, even if it is a matchup you have an advantage in, don't disrespect Tager anyhow, to summarize a few basic tips... -If Tager magnetizes you, it should be in your best interest to be as careful. in this state, he can 720 your backdash into OMGBBQWTF ammounts of damage. -Restating the obvious, i know, but his sledge move can go through all of your D moves. -His backdash is big and invincible, and can buffer into a 360 or 720. -If you do get hit Be ready to throw break during combos, as if he throws in a 360 during a combo and you don't break it, it will hurt. alot.
thegame4ever Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Tager, there's a very good Tager here and this is what I got. ANNOY HIM with 6B, j.B, or 6B, j.2A, or 6B, j.C, j.2C. Be creative If he backdashes just do j.2a, it will usually catch him on his last frame if u did j.b or j.6B for example and hit him. Zone well. I usually go back, summon a cloud, and a bell bug, and advance forward using bell bugs as cover. If he decides to sledge, as soon as you see it j.6B or j.6C and he'll be hit, or alternatively you can try to j.D direction depending on where he is and catch him as his sledge finishes. If you get hit by a sledge it's usually safe on block for him, simply backdash to get your ass out of there. If he jumps and does his D magnet move, simply walk in and when you're close j.A, j.A combo into curse into 6C loop. You have to be very careful, and if he's in corner and you've trapped him, stay a dash away so you don't get SLEDGE.
App1e5auce Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Zone well. I usually go back, summon a cloud, and a bell bug, and advance forward using bell bugs as cover. If he decides to sledge, as soon as you see it j.6B or j.6C and he'll be hit, or alternatively you can try to j.D direction depending on where he is and catch him as his sledge finishes. Absolutely. I've been playing alot of Tagers that get baited into sledging the bell or the cloud. What I usually do is 2C (shark) because its a free knockdown with oki opportunities. I sure love ara's oki options, hehe.
Manas Ayus Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Copper has the right idea. The best way to deal with Tager in my opinion is to make sure you have out a bug and a cloud and then start air-dash canceling and going into your mixup. The win up for the sledgehammer is quite long, and he WILL use it to try and break your clouds and bugs. On the same note, DO NOT waste your time trying to corner trap a good Tager; they can (and the good ones WILL) Sledgehammer their way right out and probably into a combo. While he's cursed just keep mixing up your attacks while getting him with the air-dash cancel and throwing lots of bugs out. Best of luck!
thegame4ever Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Copper has the right idea. The best way to deal with Tager in my opinion is to make sure you have out a bug and a cloud and then start air-dash canceling and going into your mixup. The win up for the sledgehammer is quite long, and he WILL use it to try and break your clouds and bugs. On the same note, DO NOT waste your time trying to corner trap a good Tager; they can (and the good ones WILL) Sledgehammer their way right out and probably into a combo. While he's cursed just keep mixing up your attacks while getting him with the air-dash cancel and throwing lots of bugs out. Best of luck! You can still trap him (easily) you just have to be a bit more than one arakune dash away. Their sledge distance will be out of reach, and your pressure like it was. And if they start a sledge, bellbug if summoned will hit him or j.6B him back where he belongs. Watch hime arakune vs tager for a good example.
Skye Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I personally think that Arakune is a worst match for Tager that v-13 is. You can literally start with a super jump, double jump and a cloud, concluding with a dive of your choice and there is nothing he can do about it. B-Sledge is never a concern, it has too laggy a start up and has quite low priority for it's strength. Punish it with a j.B > j.C > j.D combo--easy, or with a j.6A/B/C (depending on the range), or with a dive. A-Sledge is the bigger issue simply because it's faster, but that's only if you're close range. One thing I know is that Tager has no oki get up options on air borne foes, the best he can do is block, which is thrown down the drain with cross ups and aerial high/low block strings. If you're gonna zone then one thing you MUST look out for it the Spark Ball, which has a habit of catching you through the insect swarm. Tech trap him when air borne with bell and 6D bugs. If you're in his face, watch out for the elbow (j.2C) has extremely fast startup and is a combo starter on counter hit. During his block strings you have 3 options all after he sledge/2D. You can opt for the 5A>6B tactic--which does work unless he's planning a 360/720. You can dash back--which does work unless the magnet's on you and he's planning a 360/720. or You can jump and guard--which gets past all his follow up other than a psychic collider--which you'll see rarely. That's about all I can think of. This match up is so easy, I really feel sorry for lovable ol' Tager. Play your cards right and he really has (absolutely) no options in this match up.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 We can backdash on wakeup and punish you heartily if you go right through with dive. j.B I don't think is backdashable.
Brother Mojo Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 You can literally start with a super jump, double jump and a cloud, concluding with a dive of your choice and there is nothing he can do about it.In past experience, I tend to be able to reach Arakunes who use this opener with a forward superjump and j.D at the beginning of the match. They generally manage to block since they are double-jumping backwards, but defusing their first attempt to throw a cloud and making them start the fight magnetized is pretty sweet. Of course, sometimes this just makes me eat a j.6A to the face, because they weren't trying to cloud. If you are magnetized, or even just in general, it's pretty nice to have one of the air clouds over Tager's head. If he tries any Atomic Collider funny business, he'll just stick his hand in it and get cursed. Plus it's the only cloud he can't use projectile guard point to clear up. So yeah, that's about all I've picked up from playing Tager v. Arakune. That and the fact that I'm totally boned.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 I personally think that Arakune is a worst match for Tager that v-13 is. You can literally start with a super jump, double jump and a cloud, concluding with a dive of your choice and there is nothing he can do about it. B-Sledge is never a concern, it has too laggy a start up and has quite low priority for it's strength. Punish it with a j.B > j.C > j.D combo--easy, or with a j.6A/B/C (depending on the range), or with a dive. A-Sledge is the bigger issue simply because it's faster, but that's only if you're close range. One thing I know is that Tager has no oki get up options on air borne foes, the best he can do is block, which is thrown down the drain with cross ups and aerial high/low block strings. If you're gonna zone then one thing you MUST look out for it the Spark Ball, which has a habit of catching you through the insect swarm. Tech trap him when air borne with bell and 6D bugs. If you're in his face, watch out for the elbow (j.2C) has extremely fast startup and is a combo starter on counter hit. During his block strings you have 3 options all after he sledge/2D. You can opt for the 5A>6B tactic--which does work unless he's planning a 360/720. You can dash back--which does work unless the magnet's on you and he's planning a 360/720. or You can jump and guard--which gets past all his follow up other than a psychic collider--which you'll see rarely. That's about all I can think of. This match up is so easy, I really feel sorry for lovable ol' Tager. Play your cards right and he really has (absolutely) no options in this match up. Remember that Tager doesn't have any safe block strings. If we try to throw out any of you C, D or sledge attacks either backdash or jump away. All that can be done without IBing. If you're magnetized just remember that all of your aerial moves be out AC it might require some timing but it's doable.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 If you want to play auto mode, thinking you're so safe at the start, we can 2D underneath your superjump and collider you while you cloud. And apparently 5C hits you guys in the air right off the bat too.
Skye Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Well, that takes care of cloud, but thankfully Arakune has a plethora of options at the start, many a time I got a free curse because Tager wanted to Psychic Collider at the start of the match, I've also been able to summon clouds for similar reasons, some times, I'll just be on the defensive and wait to see Tager's reaction, some times, I'll catch him in the air with a free curse combo, or an air grab to cloud. In speaking of the clouds; Homing cloud: Sledge bait, easy, A sledge this, because Arakune can punish a B Sledge with 2D or J6D full screen, and he can also pressure you with ADC JB until the cloud hits you, if you have the space, A Sledge only, otherwise, you may have to take a risk and mash, or just let it hit you. This cloud is for pressure. No Jumping Zone: This cloud is all about pressure! It limits plenty of Tager's options to when he may have to Sledge Car for transportation (because walking is ludicrous, right?), Arakune can jump as much as he pleases and do whatever, A well placed air super is guaranteed curse with this cloud. The best way around this is to wait for an obvious hole in Arakune's precurse pressure and strike/mash. If you're already cursed, try for a counter assault....or mash. Cloud Shield: My favorite in this match up, because Sledge Car takes too sensitive of timing to get it out of the way, and it follows Arakune, this adds a horrible fear to his precurse pressure as that cloud is bound to touch you one way or another. Try for a counter assault, or mash. If you haven't noticed mashing helps Tager a lot here. Now a bonus category, Bell! (6D) Too good here, keeps Tager out of the air, and it's hurtbox is deceivingly high, so most Tagers would try to Sledge it just to fail and have it land on their heads, and since Tager's mobility is slow, Arakune in most cases can safely whip one out. Our mix up is trash, but one thing we are good at is training out opponents, with repetition and fake outs, watch out for those teleports. When playing Sol I noticed he jumps while guarding just so he can instant elbow me afterwards, don't do this, after I caught on, a simple 5C solved that issue, and will most likely be counter hit, which leads to a JA > JC > JD > loop setup. I'll come back later on.
Heroic_Legacy Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 I like floaty cloud above you. It saves my ass because I can walk up Random MTW, and if you block it I get cursed, but we recover equally and I can mix you up.
ryofoong Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I don't know what kind of Arakunes you have been fighting, but a cursed Tager is a dead Tager. If the Arakune isn't smart enough to lock you down with a D bug as quick as possible and THEN throw out the cloud, then you're silly.
ShinsoBEAM Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't know what kind of Arakunes you have been fighting, but a cursed Tager is a dead Tager. If the Arakune isn't smart enough to lock you down with a D bug as quick as possible and THEN throw out the cloud, then you're silly. This p. much its so gay, our only hope is to either see if you fuck up in some way and we can sledge/backdash avoid the Dbug to spinny super to punish an physical attempt to regain pressure. Also dbug = 60% meter for tager so watch out for our counter assault, because I mean damn, we will have 100% meter and meter is worthless dead.
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