10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Currently the matchup that I have the most experience with from playing Lordknight. In this fight Litchi wants to jump around alot and fish for counter hits where she'll get her big damage in. As bang you need to avoid the counter hits, and try to get in safely without spending too many nails on entry. When she does not have her staff in her hands you have the advantage on running in and doing whatever you want for oki. With her staff her DP is a problem on wakeup, so you have the option of blocking, or 2ding to counter her dp. It's a guessing game, and it's not always in your favor during your oki. Bangs oki when Litchi has her staff: Bangs 6b will beat out her throw attempt and give you another 50/50 - beat by litchis dp. Bangs 5a will continue pressure if she decides to jump, but will whiff if she is crouching. The recovery is good enough for you to be safe afterwards, or abuse reaction time speeds by purposely whiffing 5a over litchi, then command throwing. - 5a is beat by litchis dp. Bangs 2a will continue pressure if you hit it immediately from a tech, will catch jumpers during the jump startup and get a free hit. Bangs 2d will beat out her dp on wakeup if timed correctly. - This is beat by litchis wakeup throw. The best answer to her dp is 2d if you can time it right, you can get another knockdown off of the combo following it, and she WILL NOT have her staff on the next wakeup to threaten you with another dp. Bangs command throw will obviously beat out if Litchi is blocking. - This is beat by litchi doing her regular throw, or dping. You can counter this by advanced throw breaking when you do your command throw, shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJI02Q3My4I Without her staff: ALL RIGHT. I'll update this in a post as well but new information has been brought to my attention from playing Lordknight today. When Litchi is staffless and rolls for wakeup, she has OPTIONS. If she does one rekka it beats out 5a/5b if you meaty it. If she does another one it beats out meaty 2a, and if she does a staff jump it beats out 2a as well. It's a guessing game, but you can 5d her sweep rekka, and 5a her overhead and staff jump. Keep it in mind, even though it will only be used by good Litchi's. And the only spectacular Litchi I know atm is LK. Neutral/defensive: While YOU'RE on the defensive, your best options are to block until a pressure string ends, and attempt a jump out, or tk drive nails so you can move in immediately. Her pressure and mixup is equal to bangs once your in the corner, so you have to play carefully. At neutral, litchi has range on you, and an early j.B from bang is the only thing that will beat out her j.B in the air. Approaching litchi while she is in the air is not recommended, as it will normally lead to a 4k combo, with you in the corner blocking until you're killed. Your nails are important in this fight to move in. At the start of the match if you think litchi is going to j.B, you can j.B and beat hers out for a counter hit. Drives: 2d is good against litchi if she has already jumped twice, if you throw 2d on litchis first jump, she can j.c and jump cancel it to avoid the 2d, and STILL punish you. 5d is decent if litchi is going for ranged blockstrings that leave her with alot of downtime, teleporting off of it is not always safe though, as litchi has moves that put her in a crouching / moving forward state, so she can avoid the 5d hit if you teleport with A. It's safer to play the re-entry game sometimes and just C teleport as far away as you can. 6d is useless, don't bother imo. j.d wont help you from litchis air to air either. Remember that litch is one of the characters that can be abused by the 6c combos when she is standing for extra damage.
DaiAndOh Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 lol before I can do anything. Mind if I post some of the things I had in the other thread as well as other data in the first post, or would you like to handle matchups in general?
10stars Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 lol before I can do anything. Mind if I post some of the things I had in the other thread as well as other data in the first post, or would you like to handle matchups in general? You're free to add anything that you would like, what I post is only my view on a fight, I may overlook something that another player might pick up on. But I can handle a chunk of the matchup threads, I wanted to get Litchi stuff out there after playing LK alot. I don't feel comfortable yet posting on Ragna until I play Jiyuna again, since I figured some new stuff out.
DaiAndOh Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 How do you recommend blocking vs. "limb" staff super mixups? Things to look for? Other then that, my main problem is beating her staff priority and that damn DP Out of curiousity, since I've played/seen LK, how well do you do against him?
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 How do you recommend blocking vs. "limb" staff super mixups? Things to look for? Other then that, my main problem is beating her staff priority and that damn DP Out of curiousity, since I've played/seen LK, how well do you do against him? The gumby special? You have to sit low and react to her slow overheads. Do not burst, and do not dead angle, it punishes both of these. You can't really beat her staff priority as Bang, attempting to beat out her stuff at range is going to end up with j.b counter hits for 3.5k+ combos for her + resets, or ground B counter hits that end up with the same thing. You have to be incredibly careful until you're close enough to her that she doesn't beat you out because of her range. When me and LK were first playing it was about even, back in November. That was because bangs guard points helped me alot and we were both still learning things. By January he was beating me almost 9-1. Now when we play it's about 6-4, he still beats me frequently but it's alot closer now because I play differently and don't get ripped by him when he's counter hit fishing. As far as her dp goes, if I guess right on oki and I think he's going to dp, 2d always wins against it.
10stars Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 And j. C ch as well btw. Disgusting wall bounce. oops, forgot to mention j.C. Yeah, that's where she gets her highest damage off of from air counter hits. It is pretty nasty. It also doesn't increase the size of her hitbox, so she gains alot of range on Bang for free. Just got some games against LK in. If litchi ever 5b > 6a (5b mid > 6a overheads) you can regular block the 5b, and 5d the 6a, A teleport > j.d > land > 2b > 623b > 2363214c distortion. Nice 4.5 punish if you see the overhead coming.
Kicks Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I'm pretty sure 3C/slide is guaranteed if you block her dragon punch. Sometimes you get a CH other times you won't, but often you can still combo off of it. You gotta be hella close to use 2D against her dp too. Most of the Litchi's I play, back jump almost constantly. Go for pressure before you go for a mixup, because they'd rather get up into the air and counter before blocking and countering. At the same time, go for a strong mixup when you can because she's a pain to chase. Also don't chase! Get her cornered and try to find a good time to get in.
sw1tch Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I've played some pretty good litchi, for me what's hard is not getting in the corner, and her overhead are hard to see during blockstring it's really fast for an overhead and can lead to combo getting you in the corner really fast, where she can easily get you stuck.I tend to use more barrier against her to get her away during the long blockstring so i can get some space to jump cross-up her, i hate her dp, too very hard to pressure her when she have her staff ;(.the only thing that beat her j.C is j.A-jB 263B witch can lead to good combo.well that's it from my noob experience against her.
rambo4ever Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 so aside from: Drive nails and early j.B what are some other suggested ways to move in on Litchi? or, how can Bang get a successful knockdown on her? (both above questions are assuming Litchi is with her staff)
10stars Posted July 30, 2009 Author Posted July 30, 2009 so aside from: Drive nails and early j.B what are some other suggested ways to move in on Litchi? or, how can Bang get a successful knockdown on her? (both above questions are assuming Litchi is with her staff) Drive nails, early j.b, and dash 5a off the start. dash 5a is incredibly risky though, and j.b and nails are still the safest options. All you have to do to get a knockdown on her is mix her up once, everything leads into 2c > 6d. If you get her in a position where shes scared to jump go for crossup j.4cs and followup if it hits, if it doesn't when you land you have the option of going for another overhead (5c) or into a low (5a) No matter what you do though, you should be able to land a knockdown from something as long as you're playing safe and watching her movement.
sergetrigger Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 Litchi's airthrow is annoying as hell, she can go into another air throw right after it. So always expect that.
Cornix Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 Litchi's airthrow is annoying as hell, she can go into another air throw right after it. So always expect that. Please do this so that when we combo off our airthrow it throws you off. :D Linking airthrows has fallen out of favor, if we land one in a random air to air battle or something we're far more likely to just j.C 5B ItsuuA/DP instead, and the only time you really fit airthrows into a 'combo' is after stickman, and it's become far more likely to see some of our rekkas to bring you back down to set up our oki game. Don't 'look' for it, you've got plenty of time to break on reaction to it, don't worry about linked air throws. Then again I could just be lying to throw you guys off.
sergetrigger Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 Then again I could just be lying to throw you guys off. I'm gonna quote Bang on this.... "I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU!"
Cornix Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 I'm gonna quote Bang on this.... "I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU!" Not well enough since I wasn't lying. :D
KowtowRobinson Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Best damage off a blocked DP? I tried to do a normal combo and got dunked in the head. QQ
individuals Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 well since recovery is pretty long...whatever BnB does the most damage is your best bet. if u gots meter go for FRKZ > autocombo super.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 well since recovery is pretty long...whatever BnB does the most damage is your best bet. if u gots meter go for FRKZ > autocombo super. Yeah I had blocked it at range that time, and didn't close in enough to avoid the followup. I think that's where people here would use lol. Tested it in practice mode, you seem to have enough time to dash into a 5a for the sliding effect if you block it at farther ranges, keeps you from getting noggin donked by the 2nd hit. She still gives me trouble, but I really don't play against her that often, so that's got a hand in it.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 6D is amazing in this fight purely for its ability to get you out of the corner when she tries to tech trap with the staff.
10stars Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 new information has been brought to my attention from playing Lordknight today. When Litchi is staffless and rolls for wakeup, she has OPTIONS. If she does one rekka (low slide kick) it beats out 5a/5b if you meaty it. If she does another one (jumping overhead spin) it beats out meaty 2a, and if she does a staff jump it beats out 2a as well. It's a guessing game, but you can 5d her sweep rekka, and 5a her overhead and staff jump. Keep it in mind, even though it will only be used by good Litchi's. And the only spectacular Litchi I know atm is LK.
10stars Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 new information has been brought to my attention from playing Lordknight today. When Litchi is staffless and rolls for wakeup, she has OPTIONS. If she does one rekka (low slide kick) it beats out 5a/5b if you meaty it. If she does another one (jumping overhead spin) it beats out meaty 2a, and if she does a staff jump it beats out 2a as well. It's a guessing game, but you can 5d her sweep rekka, and 5a her overhead and staff jump. Keep it in mind, even though it will only be used by good Litchi's. And the only spectacular Litchi I know atm is LK.
Justice7541 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Just out of curiosity, what the best combo options on Litchi when she's crouching? The Litchis I fight always seem to be crouching, and 5A and 5B both seem to whiff on her crouching, which leaves me with 2A and lots of proration.
10stars Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 I stick to standard bnbs against crouching litchi. Try to start with 5b if you can. 2a/5b > 2b > 2c > 6d > 623b is standard. overhead combos are pretty much the same thing. If you have a nail and want to go for bumper mixup: 2a/5b > 2b > 2c > B bumper > dash 2a > 5b > j.a > j.c > land on bumper > dash for oki.
Reioumu Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Interesting to know. The only Litchi practice I really have is Gwyrgyn Blood which was the only decent Litchi I've even come across. (Though he dropped the baby a few times)
Justice7541 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I stick to standard bnbs against crouching litchi. Try to start with 5b if you can. 2a/5b > 2b > 2c > 6d > 623b is standard. overhead combos are pretty much the same thing. If you have a nail and want to go for bumper mixup: 2a/5b > 2b > 2c > B bumper > dash 2a > 5b > j.a > j.c > land on bumper > dash for oki. Does that actually combo? I'll have to try that, LK tells me your Bang mixup is god tier. I've been trying to work bumper mixup into my game for a while now but I can't figure out any way to get the bumper where I want it mid-combo, only as oki and a side roll immediately messes that up.
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