10stars Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 6:4 Noels favor. Noels 5a pressure is good, and she has decent mixup. She's also fast and has alot of things that are safe on her side. She can also punish Bangs 5c overhead ON REACTION with her 5d. She has the higher damage in the fight. The Opener Noel has alot of good options from simply standing or jumping against Bang. Nails as usual are his best opener for both defense and offense. I advise using drive nails over anything else if you're going to be using nails off the start. Good openers however: Dash 5b - This can be beaten out by her 5d 8 jump j.B off the start beats out anything Noel has that she would IAD in with. However, 8J.B can be beaten out by noels 9 jump j.b/j.c. So the j.b is only useful if you think she's air dashing towards you. Overall for the opener, Noels probably going to be defensive jumping or just blocking off the start, so I advise nails, or dash 5b, as the best options to open against her. Bang Oki Noel is another character who lacks a dp, however her reversal distortion is pretty good. If you predict her to wake up with zero gun, cross her up with j.4c, or simply jump over her and punish it. Guard pointing it is also a viable option. All versions of guard points can block the first hit of her gun, and then you have teleport options BEFORE her bullets come out. Her greed severish overhead (Front flip in drive mode) Is immune to lows, and isn't horrible on wakeup, so take advantage of the fact that bangs 5a does not whiff on a crouching noel, and open your strings with that, it will beat out the early startup frames of the move, and give you a counter hit. Watch for her 3c though, as she can go under your 5a if she sees that you're only opening your pressure with that. If your timing is good and you 5a right as Noel is waking up, it counter hits most of her drive moves. The exception to this is her 4d, 4d will immune on wakeup through your 5a, however if you're close to her, you recover in time from 5a to counter hit it with 5b. If you aren't close enough to her, your 5a will whiff, and you can block > punish if she doesn't continue the string, or block the rest of her drive string and punish anyway. While on the offensive, as stated earlier, her 5d WILL beat out bangs 5c if the Noel player can react to it, OR if the noel player is even MASHING 5d. If you assume that the noel your playing is mashing 5d during your pressure strings, you can counter this by doing 2d in place of Bangs 5c. It will not block her 5d, it will simply counter hit it before anything happens to you. If the Noel you're fighting isn't blocking much, and is just trying to drive out of everything, don't go for command throws, scare the Noel first and show the player that Bang will go on a rampage all day until Noel stops throwing her drive around like its the best thing on earth. With her reversal covered, her drives covered both on oki and from blockstrings, it's safe to say that Noel is a bit of a guessing game for Bang. But when you're on the offense, you have the most options. On the defensive Noel has a very strong list of options to do things. Starting with what's probably the hardest thing to avoid, her deep dash jump j.as and her 5a pressure. When Noel dashes towards you and jumps with j.a, Bang has 1 move that he can anti air her with, and 0 moves that he can air to air her with that will beat it out on reaction. The only thing that you can beat it out with, is a prejump j.a/b/c. The most effective prejump attack for bang against this is j.C. Bangs j.A will trade alot, and his j.B will get Bang counter hit alot. Timing differs for the prejumps based on the attacks, but prejumping is not a safe option. Since in order to beat it her j.a out, you have to throw the attacks pretty much as soon as you leave the ground, you cant immediately air dash since you're recovering. The exception to this is bangs j.a, which as stated earlier is not safe to use because it will trade or whiff. If you prejump and she does not jump, you're going to either get hit with her 6a, or be forced to block it, then land in pressure. Your best bet, while it's unfortunate, is to run. When she j.As it will not hit bang, and you can safely run under it and run away to avoid the pressure that would have followed the j.A. As far as the one move I said Bang can anti air her with, that's his 5a. If she dashes really deep into you and jumps, your 5a will either cause her to block, or she'll take a counter hit in the startup of her j.A. Either way, this is a situation where you have to pick your battles wisely, and sometimes just running from her is the best option. Her 5a pressure, 5a5a5a5a5a5a dash 5a5a5a5a dash 5a5a5a dash crap. You have to instant block this to do anything safely. If the Noel you're playing is dashing after a certain number of 5as, lets say after 3 5as the Noel dashes, instant block the 3rd 5a and jump out. Or if you can predict a dash, instant block jump. You can also instant block > drive, but it's high risk, since she can punish with a low or a high to knock you out of your guard points. When Noel is not in drive mode her 6b overhead is what you will see used for mixup. Even though it is slow and easy to react to, I do not advise 2d teleporting it. You will quickly find yourself not hitting her with the 2d after the teleport, or being hit by 3c during your 2d if you don't teleport. Instead, 5a the overhead if you have the reaction time, otherwise simply block it. If she ever follows up with 3c afterwards because she thinks you're going to guard point, it's a free punish for Bang. Noels Drive mode mixup is nothing serious, look for the greed severs, look for the slow low kick, and look for the slow overhead kick. I do not advise 2ding her standing overhead kick in drive mode, as she can do 4d afterwards and punish Bangs 2d. If you are going to attempt to punish her drive 6b overhead, do it with 5d > A teleport, as it will beat out the followup 4d from Noel. Keep your eyes open for gimmicks, if Noel j.Ds she can land and do spring raid or the greed sever overhead. If you aren't sure what's going to happen, block, its safe! And even after the block you can punish it. Drives 5d is good for countering alot of her drive stuff. 2d is good for countering her greed sever overheads / even when followed by spring raid 6d is meh as usual, use it in combos only. That's what I can put in for Noel right now, there's more to the matchup but both characters have things that can counter the other character. It's a big prediction game in this match, with a little reaction time on the side. My opinion on this fight has changed, I side with Diandoh on 6:4 Noels favor. She has alot that simply beats Bang out from the air, and leaves him with limited ways to move in.
AtTheGates Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 looking forward to your tips, noel seems very strong air to air from what i could gather from the matches against zakuta, her j.A seems to beat out almost everything i threw at her. also, since she can low profile under 5A, you have to go for 2A a lot when rushing her, which means, gaps are a little bigger.
10stars Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 Updated original post with my knowledge of Noel V Bang. Updating Rachel Alucard tomorrow.
Latiosking Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I love all of your Matchup post 10stars. I desperately needed Noel's and Jin's(characters i have the most problem with)
DaiAndOh Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I say 6-4, though it could be me. I feel Noel has priority over Bang in a big way. Sadly, I'm not sure which of her drives is what, but I believe you can 2D in the middle of a string when she goes for the "Greed Sever", crossup one. Maybe the heel too?
WUT Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 You can 2D practically any of it if you IB. Without IB, both her overheads you can react with 2D. She only has one low hitting attack in Drive, but that stupid command throw has to be crouched to avoid it.
DaiAndOh Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 You can 2D practically any of it if you IB. Without IB, both her overheads you can react with 2D. She only has one low hitting attack in Drive, but that stupid command throw has to be crouched to avoid it. 2D command throw on reaction maybe?
Browncoat3 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 If Noel uses the distortion where she pulls out a laser minigun sort of weapon and fires away, you can do tk D nails on reaction and hit her out of it if you're close. Granted, you could always just do 5D or 2D on reaction and teleport behind her, but I find it oddly satisfying throwing a bunch of nails in her face... Also when she starts spamming that 5a pressure string, I find barrier guard confuses the heck out of a lot of Noels online. It pushes her back at just the range bang needs to do 5B into whatever. I'm sure this is just because I'm not playing any good Noels, but if you find yourself annoyed by someone mindlessly spamming 5a, that helps.
DaiAndOh Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 If Noel uses the distortion where she pulls out a laser minigun sort of weapon and fires away, you can do tk D nails on reaction and hit her out of it if you're close. Granted, you could always just do 5D or 2D on reaction and teleport behind her, but I find it oddly satisfying throwing a bunch of nails in her face... Also when she starts spamming that 5a pressure string, I find barrier guard confuses the heck out of a lot of Noels online. It pushes her back at just the range bang needs to do 5B into whatever. I'm sure this is just because I'm not playing any good Noels, but if you find yourself annoyed by someone mindlessly spamming 5a, that helps. Better to conserve nails when possible. But good to know just in case. I usually block it and punish. Isai should play Bang! Manly like Falcon
RPGsFTW Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Was it already mentioned that Bang's running super could beat Noel out of her drives? I'd say it's good to use at a distance because her drives last a little while.
10stars Posted July 18, 2009 Author Posted July 18, 2009 Was it already mentioned that Bang's running super could beat Noel out of her drives? I'd say it's good to use at a distance because her drives last a little while. If you're too far away from them and you do 2363214C, Noel can react to it and do her distortion, which beats Bangs out from a distance. I wouldn't advise doing it too far too much.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Was it already mentioned that Bang's running super could beat Noel out of her drives? I'd say it's good to use at a distance because her drives last a little while. Her drive overhead beats his super if you're too far away to hit immediately.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Funny thing I did today on a whim; when Noel does that drive move that dashes behind you, it's open season to command grab her out of it as soon as she reaches your other side.
Kicks Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 2B seems to stuff a lot of her stuff on wakeup. Like if she likes to poke or drive after she's knocked down. 2B>TK Nail into mixup or >2C for a mixup or combo when it hits. j.D works ok too, but isn't as safe and harder to time but it also beats her ground super. A lot of her lows will beat it on wakeup too, especially if your wakeup isn't ideal... like you had to run up first. Don't ever use j.D air to air. You'll get stuffed. Don't ever do air to air anyway... you'll get stuffed.
SSMugen Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I don't know if this has been discovered or if it was just Online shenanigans but I was fighting a Noel and when she Did her 3C on my wake up I used Daifunkar to punish it and lo and behold, The fucking move whiffed. I'm gonna test this in Training mode to see if I can replicate it.
AtTheGates Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 several chars can low profile under daifunka, for example taokaka with crawl 2A.
SSMugen Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 several chars can low profile under daifunka, for example taokaka with crawl 2A. Good to know thanks. But that's weird that Daifunkar's hit box isn't his whole body so it allows stuff like that to happen. Oh well what can you do huh?
sergetrigger Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Her drive overhead beats his super if you're too far away to hit immediately. ...Found that out the hard way. However it looked more like the drive move where she jams her gun to the foe's chest and shoots, out prioritized it.
sergetrigger Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 Small note: ...Spring rain is has insane priority.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 ^ ....I love 2d. That immediately brought to my mind the image of you 2Ding that one Tao 5 or 6 times in the corner in a row lol.
Browncoat3 Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Just a quick note some of you may have already discovered through painful experience- Don't try to do Daifunka when Noel does her distortion drive in the air. Even if you buffer the input so it comes out immediately after the flash on the screen from Noel's air super, it won't go through it. I think because the move sort of scrolls the screen toward Noel's back Bang kind of dashes in place, per se, so the invincibility frames wear out and he just gets hit. I saw ShowMeYaMoves fall victim to this and tested it out myself. It's kind of annoying, but I guess you just have to block it...Or can you 6D it on reaction and teleport to safety?
sergetrigger Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Just a quick note some of you may have already discovered through painful experience- Don't try to do Daifunka when Noel does her distortion drive in the air. Even if you buffer the input so it comes out immediately after the flash on the screen from Noel's air super, it won't go through it. I think because the move sort of scrolls the screen toward Noel's back Bang kind of dashes in place, per se, so the invincibility frames wear out and he just gets hit. I saw ShowMeYaMoves fall victim to this and tested it out myself. It's kind of annoying, but I guess you just have to block it...Or can you 6D it on reaction and teleport to safety? Really? I had a different result when I do Daifunka against the aerial super... I usually just go through the bullets.
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