QuickFast Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 No thread match up for Bang yet. Decided to create one. I've watched some vids but haven't played enough Bangs to figure how to beat 'em clean. It seems like Bang has a lot of potential to beat Jin. Post what you know here!
Killey Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 It's a 6-4 in Jin's favor. Bang's drives have armor properties so they can absorb hits and keep going. At the opening of the match you can play it safe and jump back to see what they do if they try to air dash in you can do j.D to freeze and punish with a BnB. If they throw the nails block and prepare for their rush down. Doing a dash cancel Fubuki at the beginning is stupid as good Bang players have good punishes for this. Bang doesn't have many overheads so block low for his combos and look for opportunities to punish. Alternatively, 6B is useful to throw out as it will go over his low moves and land a counter hit into BnB. 5D beats TK Nails. B Nail and Running Super will beat out Jin's Ice Swords so don't throw these out too often as it will lead into a favorable position for Bang. Don't over commit in your rush downs as he can punish it with his Drives. Learn to block his mix up games and zone him properly. Once you get in close the match is pretty much yours provided you keep a look out for his Drives.
QuickFast Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 That seems right. I would always get super'd on his wake up because of my rush down -_-; that helped a lot
kid viper Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 good bangs will not allow you to pressure them. they will try to get the pressure first and then bait/mix you up hard. 5D to beat tk nails is not a good tactic, as bang will only tk nails on you if he has you in a block string. bang has 2 overheads which are easy yet hard to react to, be very careful of that. Also, command grab is really good, especially after a tk nail so you have to look out for that and don't try to tech as soon as you can because he could tech trap you for free damage. movement is very important in this matchup because if bang gets a guard point you have to look out react quickly and assume that he's gonna teleport behind so it can mess your blocking/evading up. Try not to DP a lot because bang can easily bait it, also D nails will beat/trade against all dp's except c (which is very baitable). DO NOT ICE RIDE UNLESS YOU KNOW IT WILL HIT. Bang's 5A can punish all of them without the need to instant block them (yes, even a version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBBDKrEN3J8 prime example on what to do/not to do vs bang x_x
KowtowRobinson Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Bang player here, couple easy things to remember against Bang. Your 2a low profiles under his 5a, although his 5a is a frame faster than your 5a. Aside from drive nails, most of his rushdown you can just jump backwards and barrier. His only real answer for this is to jump after you and try to command grab. Abuse j.B, don't just use it a lot, I mean really abuse it. He has nothing to beat it straight up, just be aware that he has extra mobility in the air, and be ready to double jump if he tries to guard point through it. Force him to beat just straight up j.B whoring first, and then work from that. If he runs out of nails, he's fucked. Just mash 2a and jump backwards a lot, he's completely helpless. The whole match really plays out like this, except you have to be careful about nails and.....that's it. Bang without nails is fucking useless, if you know how to mash 2a and jump away. His only reversal is his super. He has no other reversal, just watch for his guard points and jump cancel away, or hit him out of the uppercut (2D) with a low.
Skye Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Bang should be high tier. Anyway, Jin will have a hard time getting through those Shurikens.
10stars Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Bang should be high tier. Anyway, Jin will have a hard time getting through those Shurikens. Bangs B+ or A- tier in the US because americans are horrible at blocking overheads.
kid viper Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 this match isn't really that easy for jin. bang can do a lot of things to out prioritize you. first priority: DON'T LET HIM GET FURINKAZAN. if bang is able to activate it, the outcome of the round is pretty much won by bang. second: get on the offensive asap. bang's offensive game is pretty scary, especially when you're either a) in the corner or b) next to a bumper. try and stop that quick. third: becareful of fighting air-to-air or trying to jump in on him. fighting bang in an air-to-air match will generally end up in bang's favor due to j.b and j.c. when trying to jump in on bang he can either use 5a or 5c to try and stop you as they are both deceptively good anti-airs. basically try and kill him quick, cause the match can get ugly if you draw it out too long
KowtowRobinson Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 this match isn't really that easy for jin. bang can do a lot of things to out prioritize you. first priority: DON'T LET HIM GET FURINKAZAN. if bang is able to activate it, the outcome of the round is pretty much won by bang. second: get on the offensive asap. bang's offensive game is pretty scary, especially when you're either a) in the corner or b) next to a bumper. try and stop that quick. third: becareful of fighting air-to-air or trying to jump in on him. fighting bang in an air-to-air match will generally end up in bang's favor due to j.b and j.c. when trying to jump in on bang he can either use 5a or 5c to try and stop you as they are both deceptively good anti-airs. basically try and kill him quick, cause the match can get ugly if you draw it out too long I'm not sure what kind of Jin you've been trying to play, but a LOT of that is just flat out wrong. 1) If Jin has meter, he has EASY ways to hurt bang in bang install. If he doesn't, he still has dp and j.b, which is more than some other characters have. 2) Jin functions better keeping him out of his preferred range, Bang has a rough time getting close without spending nails. 3) High priority air normals? Jin's j.B beats anything he can do, except jump over the top of it and j.C downwards, which is difficult for any character. Jin's j.B is one of the best air normals in the game, AND gives him combo/reset on hit. Good luck finding something so easy to apply with Bang. Oh and you have a dp, on top of that. Bang's only reversal is his super, and his only anti air is slow ass 2D which can be double jumped away from easily on reaction, or being psychic and jumping command grab. That's provided you don't just j.B him out of that too, mind you. If you have that much trouble with Bang, you're doing it wrong. It's winnable for Bang, but he's gotta be a step ahead in every facet of the game.
kid viper Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 <3 Kowtow Robinson EDIT: oh yeah 10stars in the SBO Program guide Bang is officially B Tier
Kensou Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Bang player here, couple easy things to remember against Bang. Your 2a low profiles under his 5a, although his 5a is a frame faster than your 5a. Aside from drive nails, most of his rushdown you can just jump backwards and barrier. His only real answer for this is to jump after you and try to command grab. Abuse j.B, don't just use it a lot, I mean really abuse it. He has nothing to beat it straight up, just be aware that he has extra mobility in the air, and be ready to double jump if he tries to guard point through it. Force him to beat just straight up j.B whoring first, and then work from that. If he runs out of nails, he's fucked. Just mash 2a and jump backwards a lot, he's completely helpless. The whole match really plays out like this, except you have to be careful about nails and.....that's it. Bang without nails is fucking useless, if you know how to mash 2a and jump away. His only reversal is his super. He has no other reversal, just watch for his guard points and jump cancel away, or hit him out of the uppercut (2D) with a low. -abuse of j.B is countered by bang jump back B, and can lead to a quick knockdown -yes you can react to 2d if you drop with a jump in, but so can bang so its neutral at this point -if you run out of nails, then that means you're being very careless with your nails. even if you're out of nails, furin will more than compensate for that -i agree 2a beats bang 5a no problem, so use 5b instead -using daifunka as a reversal is only so so... -jumping back vs bang can be countered by 6c (which must be barriered if i recall) and command grab which is untechable, not to mention 5d and 5c in strings of course I'm not sure what kind of Jin you've been trying to play, but a LOT of that is just flat out wrong. 1) If Jin has meter, he has EASY ways to hurt bang in bang install. If he doesn't, he still has dp and j.b, which is more than some other characters have. 2) Jin functions better keeping him out of his preferred range, Bang has a rough time getting close without spending nails. 3) High priority air normals? Jin's j.B beats anything he can do, except jump over the top of it and j.C downwards, which is difficult for any character. Jin's j.B is one of the best air normals in the game, AND gives him combo/reset on hit. Good luck finding something so easy to apply with Bang. Oh and you have a dp, on top of that. Bang's only reversal is his super, and his only anti air is slow ass 2D which can be double jumped away from easily on reaction, or being psychic and jumping command grab. That's provided you don't just j.B him out of that too, mind you. If you have that much trouble with Bang, you're doing it wrong. It's winnable for Bang, but he's gotta be a step ahead in every facet of the game. 1] i think you underestimate furin completely...its a really amazing tool if you know how to move around and punish with it. moving around in furin may take some getting used to but its definitely worth it, just dont rely on it as a rush tool. instead think of it simply as a means of punishment if the opponnent makes silly mistakes...serious dmg too 3-4k easy every time *see 10stars vid on furin combos* 2] the same can be said for any char if you zone them correctly...i dont agree at all. nails make it EASIER for bang to get closer. his speed alone is enough to get him in imo. also i dont see anything wrong with allowing jin to get in and playing the match the other way around in that aspect. maybe not zone out jin entirely but simply force him to make mistakes so you can get a rush game working. 3] again like i stated above about bang j.B. his j.A and B are great air to air like most of the cast. maybe not entirely high priority but if its already out on a pre-emptive strike then bang will win if going up air to air. mainly j.A in particular, j.B is used to counter his jump by jumping back and using it. 4] jin having a dp doesnt amount to anything other than a reversal. it can be baited like any other reversal, now not saying you can bait it EVERY time but its something a player has to feel out during a match. bang's 6d isnt bad as a reversal btw, it has 2 active frames on start, granted that it only guards mid/low its quick start up isnt as bad. dora uses this from time to time in his matches and i've experiemented with it myself and the results arent so bad. mainly used from instant blocks btw. 5] again, i dont agree with anyone playing the match wrong or having difficulties fighting bang as jin. bang is a char that shouldnt be taken lightly not in the slightest. bang doesnt have to be ahead of the game to fight this match at all...if anything he can pace the match with a few pre-emptives here and there and play it patiently till landing a furin. my 2cents
fragile Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 bang's jA beats jin's jB and jA easily.. and it allows him to connect a seal in the process.. I think overall this match is in jin's favor because he can outpoke bang and handle his offense pretty good. In this matchup dpA is great, especially when you corner bang you can make him thing twice before he jumps on you(care from double and triple jump baitings). I try to bait alot bang's drives with j236D for a free combo..
Killey Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 In this match up Bang has limited defensive options against Jin but he can out play Jin on the defensive depending on what Jin does. In the aerial game Bang has to be preemptive to beat out any of Jin's aerial moves. Jin can out zone Bang but it's pretty risky to throw out 5D, and 2D due to Bang's mobility and speed. Bang's drive moves can actually counter Jin's rush down game but it's best to throw out jump canceable moves so the second you see something auto guarded with D you can jump cancel to safety. It's actual hard for Jin to frame trap Bang if the Bang player has good timing with his Drive moves. Not saying Bang's Drive is good (it's actually pretty aweful and is a high risk, high reward deal). Bang's j.A does not beat Jin's j.B on reaction it has to be done earlier like Bang jumps in with j.A and you try to jump in with j.B Bang will win in this scenario. However, if you jump with j.B and Bang tries to counter with a j.A he will lose. Overall, Jin's aerial game is better than Bang's and his counters to Jin's aerial game have to be done pre-emptively. Bang can 2D against j.B and then either j.D or go for oki mix up. It's not entirely safe to throw out j.B's but it is a good move to use in this match up. Bang's 2D also beats out wake up A/B/C Fubuki and in certain scenarios D Fubuki as well but depending on the distance the step back Jin takes for the 2nd hit causes 2D to whiff allowing you to CH with the 2nd hit. In the corner this is great as you'll deal 6K damage easily. Bang's j.D can be pre-emptively used to punish A/B Fubuki but the timing on this is strict for the Bang player. Be aware of how you tech during his oki game as straight netural/quick tech can lead into command grab oki that is untechable so it's best to lay there and then tech roll backward/forward when possible. If you anticipate command grab you can wake up C DP but again don't be predictable as it can be baited and punished with 2D. If Bang just does a random Umbrella Super you can super flash cancel into Ice Car for a CH provided you are not doing anything at the time the super comes out (can be done in the air to get out as well). Keep in ming Bang can only barrier guard while in Furinkazan so if he's bursted and does Furinkazan you can Super Flash Cancelled into Ice Wave Super and he has very little time to react. Bang's hi/low game is pretty bad with j.B, j.4B, and 5C being his good overheads and it's pretty obvious to block high when he's taking to the air. 5C comes out slow but looks awkward but it's can be blocked/counter poke on reaction. It's just harder to do that when Bang TK nails for rush down. IBing Bang's rush down doesn't help that often as his overall mix up game doesn't give you many opportunities to C Fubuki for punish. I find it's better to just barrier guard and jump back to force Bang off of you. In the corner next to a bumper Bang's corner pressure is incredibly vicious and again Barrier guard into a jump C Ice Car to get out seems to work well. Bang's got a lot of good tech traps with his command grab. So air teching right away is not always the smartest idea. In particular Bang players like to set up a tech trap after Daifuka by jabbing you after the wall bounce and if you air tech you get command grabbed. If they jab you after Daifuka don't even tech. Be careful how you burst against Bang as he can buffer into Daifuka and punish your burst severly. This match up is definitely in Jin's favor as overall Jin out prioritizes Bang. Bang shares the same health as Jin so he can take hits pretty well but has a lower guard libra then Jin so Jin on the defensive isn't that bad in comparison to Bang being forced on the defensive by Jin. Bang's damage output is nowhere near as good as Jin and requires a lot of set ups to deal the most damaging combo's and most of those require heat. Bang makes up for his low damage out put with his overall dominance in the oki mix up game, however, against Jin one mistake and he eats a high damage combo. Jin's got so many ways to capitalize on Counter Hits and it always puts Jin in a favorable position.
kid viper Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 you forgot about being able to teleport if he successfully autoguards an attack, which changes up the situations from whether or not bang threw out a d to whether or not bang will teleport behind you
Killey Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 you forgot about being able to teleport if he successfully autoguards an attack, which changes up the situations from whether or not bang threw out a d to whether or not bang will teleport behind you Yes, this does make the jump cancel after an auto guard a bit more tricky as it can cause some odd cross over situations which is why I don't back dash on auto guard D's anymore. Bang can teleport auto guard A/B/C Sword so be careful with it's use. Corner oki with C Sword can easily turn into teleport behind you for CH into corner oki game for Bang.
Skye Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Grab him during his auto block attack. If you see it coming and you have the opportunity, do it.
Killey Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Forgot to mention that Bang can autoguard teleport through Ice Wave Super. So careful if you are trying to do chip guard finish on a bursted Bang.
KowtowRobinson Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Grab him during his auto block attack. If you see it coming and you have the opportunity, do it. Be aware that he can still break using the 1a+b+c trick to break CH throws, but not many Bang's (me for example) are good at it yet. If you can react to 2D and have time to do a low, that would lead to guaranteed damage, but of course it's a much tighter window. Also any kind of jump cancellable move, into jump back (barrier if needed) is a good option.
Skye Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Be aware that he can still break using the 1a+b+c trick to break CH throws, but not many Bang's (me for example) are good at it yet. They better be good at the consistency of it then. Either way it'll make the Bang player think twice about throwing a drive attack around the place.
drunkenchicken Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 the jump b combos dont work on bang which changes jins offense a bit. Learn mash c combos and where to stop or use 3c 2b combos to freeze bang then knock down or possibly mixup.
BANGER Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 What to do against a Bang that is dashing against your Jin right before wakeup? They either do a command grab, normal grab, or hit low. Try to tech a normal grab, but they might hit low, and vice versa. Is roll teching towards them/to their other side safe? Sorry if this is an obvious, "dude does that even need to be posted here?" question. Bangs online are scarce, and I want to be ready to fight them anytime instead of having to go through a lot of them, which would take awhile since they're so little of them.
MisoSowee Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 if they're sprinting towards me i'll roll behind them so they switch directions. I haven't fought very many bangs either. I've seen them try to poke me but i usually don't get hit.
Killey Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 What to do against a Bang that is dashing against your Jin right before wakeup? They either do a command grab, normal grab, or hit low. Try to tech a normal grab, but they might hit low, and vice versa. Is roll teching towards them/to their other side safe? At this point you need to be doing option select barrier guarding to avoid run in throw attempts. Delay your techs rather than quick teching or neutral teching quickly to avoid command grab set ups. You can try to bait the command grab by doing this then do C Fubuki wake up to punish his command grab. You have to be extremely careful with your Fubuki use because Bang can just bait them with 2D CH combo into Daifuka for little proration and puts in the corner. Also, Bang can command grab whiff into 2D to trick you into doing a DP. From here Bang can set you up for bumper corner pressure, jab you to set you up for air command grab tech traps, dash in with 2D to bait DP's, back dash to bait your tech rolls, etc...
currentlemon Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UarOtSDnCs8&feature=channel Ren did a good job applying pressure to this Bang player. Like what KowtowRobinson and Killey said, abuse j.B and A/B/C Fubuki. Watch out for Bang's blockstrings and apply pressure. I don't have a lot to say because I rarely face Bang players, not to mention Bang is my worst matchup ________________ BB Mains: Subs:
Justice7541 Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 What to do against a Bang that is dashing against your Jin right before wakeup? They either do a command grab, normal grab, or hit low. Try to tech a normal grab, but they might hit low, and vice versa. Is roll teching towards them/to their other side safe? Sorry if this is an obvious, "dude does that even need to be posted here?" question. Bangs online are scarce, and I want to be ready to fight them anytime instead of having to go through a lot of them, which would take awhile since they're so little of them. If the only mixup is low/throw/command throw, you're in luck. What you need to be wary of is Bangs that know the bumper mixup, because then the mixup looks something like low/crossup low/high/crossup high/throw and it's impossible to react because he moves into it so fast. Fortunately, Jin is one of the two characters that is "immune" to the bumper mixup (the other being Ragna) since he has that obscenely good full-invul reversal with a crossup hitbox (623C/D). In that situation your only problem is not being baited on the wakeup. All in all, Bang is a very, very good matchup for Jin, mostly because Jin is almost immune to mixups thanks to his stupidly fast normals, crapton of defensive and reversal options, and a skinny, kinda short hitbox.
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