Shining Aquas Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 HALP! This character is EATING ME ALIVE! Drive isn't too hard to interrupt with well timed Tsubames, but Noel's general high-low game is destroying me. She also seems really good at weaving herself around my defenses. Any advice?
Supa Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Noel player reporting! Quite a lot of Noel's moves get stuffed with Litchi's 236B (I think that's what it is). That move definitely eats a 3C/2D and dodges-may-punish Noel's 6D and 4D. Gives you plenty of combo room, too, I think. You can use her 41236B thing to reverse, too. Of course, 4 winds is annoying when you're trying to close space against Litchi. Fighting airbornes with Noel is a pain - all of her air attacks hit horizontally (except 236C, but that move puts you in gravity with no air control). Litchi can jA from below all over the place. And generally Litchi has massive reach when she has her Bo, so don't throw it all loopy against Noel and stick to your C moves to push her back and take the "insane Noel robbin for rent money rushdown" out of the factor.
Spud Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Noel player reporting! Quite a lot of Noel's moves get stuffed with Litchi's Hatsu (I think that's what it is). That move definitely eats a 3C/2D and dodges/may punish Noel's 6D and 4D. Gives you plenty of combo room, too, I think. You can use her ItsuuB to reverse, too. Of course, 4 winds is annoying when you're trying to close space against Litchi. Fighting airborne with Noel is a pain - all of her air attacks hit horizontally (except Revolver Blast, but that move puts you in gravity with no air control). Litchi can j.A from below all over the place. And generally Litchi has massive reach when she has her Bo, so don't throw it all loopy against Noel and stick to your C moves to push her back and take the "insane Noel robbin for rent money rushdown" out of the factor. Unnecesarily fixed. P.S. why don't we always have people who use the other character give us insight on the matchup?
Regalia Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 I think 236B is Hatsu...unless he actually meant Haku. And how do you jC from below? jA from below actually works on some chars, not sure about noel though.
Spud Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 ^ i love when people point out my mistakes. I get Haku and Hatsu mixed up sometimes; idk how I messed up j.A. Thanks though, double fixed.
Lord Knight Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Stuff to look out for: Noel 5A pressure - this is dumb. Barrier, then 5A when she dashes back in. It should win or trade. Always hit 5B after the 5A, on CH, 5A > 5B combos. You can tsubame too if you want, but that is much less safe. Noel's counter to this is to stagger into another normal (2B, 5C, whatever). Just block and wait to see what she does - the pressure ends eventually. Noel's mixup - lol. She has deep jump in JD cancels into high/low, but it's somewhat easy to see if you know how they set it up - eitherwith a deep jump in, usually JBCD, JCD or JBD. The latter two are usually very deep. Noel's neutral game - You can't really anti-air a good Noel often, so what you'll want to do is control the space directly above in front of you. If Noel jumps in deep (or runs extra), she can JA you out of JB and JC, but rising J7B should hit her. Litchi JA wins a lot from under, good, quick aerial. Your "go away" aerial is iad back JC. On the ground you have 5B and 6B, but be aware that she can 3C/5D these. If you fear that at all, use 5C. When Noel lands, tag her with 5B, force her to block. If she starts running too deep from you using iad back JC a lot, 5B is a good "what are you doing stay back" kind of move. Expect long rounds/time outs.
Zenmetsu Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Lol. I have to agree with everything LK said, especially the long rounds. High-level Noel vs Litchi matches turn into a gigantic cat vs mouse chase. It can get really boring to watch since it's a battle of attrition. The bulk of this "fight" happens during the neutral state and Litchi's success relies on how well she can keep Noel out. Litchi has blind spots when standing but LK already covered the possible counters in detail. I find myself using Shishin a lot. There's nothing Noel can do to punish it at certain ranges without meter so block strings like 5B>5C>IttsuB>Shishin can be used to extend pressure. And pretty much once Shishin is out, it will win any trade situation even if you do it at a range she can punish. Being able to hit confirm the difference between an airborne Noel and a grounded Noel off of your 5B[m] is important in this match. She's always jumping around or backdashing so I noticed it's hard to get a clean 5B[m] hit against good Noels. More often than not you're going to be clipping them with 5B[m]. If your Litchi is the type that automatically follows up 5B with 5C regardless of the situation, break that habit and learn how to hit confirm. 5B>Tsubame; 5B>ItssuA; 5B>aircombo etc you guys know the deal. And to be honest, sometimes I feel more secure when I'm fighting Noel staffless. There are more combo opportunities for random hits and like mentioned earlier, Hatsu can be used as a safe DP with meter. As a side note, 5A pressure is too strong in lag.
Lord Knight Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I'm gonna say it now. Itsuu in strings, for (almost) any reason, is ASS. All you can do to make it safe is D (maybe, and that gets ignored) and Ryuuisou (really want to waste 50 meter?). 5B[m] hit in the air > 2C > itsuuA (if height is right) or tsubame. CH 5B[m] should be able to go into 5C(1)[m] > tsubame with no problems. EDIT: A blocked 3C should lead into 4.5K everytime. CH 5B[m] 6C chun 5B > tsubame or itsuu into whatever you want.
Phrekwenci Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Just don't 5B too much, you need to pay attention for Noel's 3C that'll go right under it. I think something important about the match is that Noel will more than likely come to you and if she's in, you'll have a serious problem. I agree with Zenmetsu where getting rid of the staff helps if she's evading your [m] attacks.
Lord Knight Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I would never just drop my staff and run around staffless in this match. Having mantenbou really helps you control the pace. Maybe drop the staff for a sec just to launch gain some ground maybe, but nothing else.
Phrekwenci Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I would never just drop my staff and run around staffless in this match. Having mantenbou really helps you control the pace. Maybe drop the staff for a sec just to launch gain some ground maybe, but nothing else. Just curious, how would you control the match keeping with [m]?
individuals Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 i think having staff on you is better, you pokes have more range, you can DP, ...what cant you do. i recently have been loving the 5B a lot, and j.B works for me, j.C when i dont intend to go in / anticipate an air approach.
Spud Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 How do you beat/avoid/counter her little command grab thingy?
edizzl Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I think if you're crouching, you won't get grabbed by it. I'm not sure if you could counter poke it though.
STenSatsu Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Trajectory looks like you could 5a it. Never tried though.
individuals Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Trajectory looks like you could 5a it. Never tried though. yes u can 5a it. and crouching is a good option to me, since her drive overhead is quite flashy, its pretty much screaming GUARD HIGH! and the other one isnt linked to as often so u can usually break the string with a 2a
Pwnzor Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 How do you beat/avoid/counter her little command grab thingy? backdash or reaction tsubame if she does it from like a characters length away. I if she does it at point blnk range your just gonna have to guess whether its her 6b or the flip grab
Lord Knight Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Just curious, how would you control the match keeping with [m]? Noel's neutral game - You can't really anti-air a good Noel often, so what you'll want to do is control the space directly above in front of you. If Noel jumps in deep (or runs extra), she can JA you out of JB and JC, but rising J7B should hit her. Litchi JA wins a lot from under, good, quick aerial. Your "go away" aerial is iad back JC. On the ground you have 5B and 6B, but be aware that she can 3C/5D these. If you fear that at all, use 5C. When Noel lands, tag her with 5B, force her to block. If she starts running too deep from you using iad back JC a lot, 5B is a good "what are you doing stay back" kind of move. Expect long rounds/time outs.
Shuyin Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 I tend to Tsubame Noel out of her drive strings whenever I get the chance....however I'm not sure if that's the best means of countering her. Should I substitute the Tsubame for Ch 5B? Or is 5B not worth the risk because using Tsubame's invincibility is safer? Will 5B even work?
Poizonous Flour Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Tsubame is OK if they are close, 5B is better far away. I personally hate 5B vs. Noel cause she can use blue, slide under it with her 3C... ugh. Noel has a lot of options when dealing with Litchi's pokes. LK pretty much covered it pretty well. The only time Noel is vulnerable is the frame where she lands. Since we have range, we have to capitalize on it, otherwise she'll make your barrier cry. She is one of hardest characters to burst against too ...
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